Ethical or unethical........

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I get that- the fact that you created this thread says enough about your character for it not to be a real issue, imo. I'm speaking to the abstract scenario IN PRINCIPLE as a simple matter of property rights and privacy. The objection is to other posters making all kinds of accusations about the character of the shop owner and the nature of his business. Posters presuming him a "Rip-off artist" because they may have had a bad experience somewhere else in the past is my main objection.

I completely agree with you there. Nobody aside from the actors in the transaction knows the intent of the shopowner or anyone involved. It ended up good for all parties it seems to me.

I enjoyed reading the various responses though, just for the philosophical discussion, but to make assumptions about the motives of each person involved, ulterior or innocent is not right.
 
IMF Pioneer, I meant the owner of the shop, not the owner of the unit. Come on now....you are grasping at grammatical errors in my message to prove yourself correct.

I find this a fascinating topic and I am trying to see both points of view here. I do know that I approached this with the best of intentions - I had no pre-conceived ideas of ripping off a store owner nor ripping off the owner of the SX-3900.

I simply wanted to buy an SX-3900 that I happen to stumble across in my daily travels....... I was assertive and polite in my quest, but not overbearing in any way. I asked the owner (of the shop) what he was going to do with it 3 times and he completely ignored me (which actually was quite rude IMO) so I went straight to the source. Had the owner (of the shop) wanted to keep the damned thing, he could have asserted his desire and made claim on the unit. He did not. He could have told me straight to my face that he is now the owner of the unit. He did not do that. He willingly gave it back to the ORIGINAL OWNER (via me picking it up) who it turn sold it to me.

Another thing, some of you guys who say the shop owner becomes the owner of the SX-3900 when he is told to dispose of it --- right ?

well when the previous owner (in your guys oopinion) asks for it back and the shop owner agrees to let it be picked up, then doesn't ownership return to the original owner again ??


I guess one can only read what someone else has written and you dropped yourself into it. (Been there done that) You've got to admit that don't you ? If you presented an incorrect document in court a good prosecutor would drop you straight into it............ Fact.

I totally agree that you made the best out of a situation that could have well turned ugly. The fact that the shop owner let it go certainly worked in your favour, we can't and I won't dispute that, but the business was originally between two parties and you white antted the business owner, Good for you. I normally find that the smell of a bargain always motivates the underlying desire in many folk.

Don't make this bigger than what it really is, yes it's a good story but one that gets played out so many times per day in every facet of life.
 
Simply because it is located in his shop does not imply ownership, otherwise every piece of equipment brought to the shop now belongs to the shopowner? I disagree wholeheartedly.

I don't know how it all works in the USA but in Australia, "Possession is Nine Tenths of the Law".

Honestly this argument could go on for months on this site and be a subforum of it's own with the most amount of hits, until you tested it in a court of law everyone is just adding what would suit themselves best. As Gordon Gekko said, "Greed is Good", well not how I was brought up and isn't that really what this question is all about ????
 
I disagree that the shop owner is owed anything. He was already paid for his diagnostic fee from the original owner, so he's not out anything IMO.

I disagree. The diagnostic service and the purchase of the receiver are two separate transactions involving two separate parties. Were it not for the shop, the OP would not have gotten the benefits he did.

Shop owner is under no obligation to provide information that's none of the general public's business and in his shoes I would have made that clear. OP should've taken the cue when the shop owner walked away - twice.

In a nutshell, OP stepped on and over the shop owner and did so sneakily & surreptitiously. That is my view for whatever it's worth. Surreptitious: obtained, done, made, etc., by stealth; secret or unauthorized; clandestine, without approval.

I've encountered a couple similar situations at my own business and I sure didn't appreciate it when it happened to me. Anyone else in the same position wouldn't appreciate it either.
 
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Standing at the counter waiting for the owner of the shop to grab me a belt, I look to my right and on the shelf is a Pioneer SX-3900 with a repair tag on it and the word "DISPOSE" written across the tag. When the owner of the shop came back with the belt, I paid for the belt and I asked him "whats the story on this Pioneer" and he said "its too expensive to fix and the owner doesn't want to pay to have it fixed". I asked him "what are you gonna do with it? Do you want to sell it?" He just ignored me. So I asked him again and he turned around and walked to the back of the shop.

I stared at the repair ticket hanging on the receiver and the owners name and phone number was staring me in the face, so I memorized it and called the owner when I got home. I asked him if he'd like to sell it and he said "sure, I told the shop owner to throw it away, apparently its not worth fixing" I offered to pay the diagnostic fee and whatever he wanted for it --- he said I could have it for free if I thought I could fix it. He already paid the shop fee. I insisted to pay him for the receiver and he finally said "send me $20"

He called the repair shop and told the owner he was sending me down to pick up his receiver..... I mailed him a check and picked it up.... Here it is....

To the point in bold, once the customer said that it became shop property; the original owner essentially set it at the curb. In this situation though the curb happened to be inside a place of business with an agent between you and it. The former owner had no influence any longer to direct to whom it went, he relinquished that previously. The shop owner could have just as easily told you to pound sand when you came back to get it. If this was an item with high value it likely would go very differently. In fact I'm sure it would. As far as what you did being unethical, the info was in plain view, you didn't root through drawers to get it. So not unethical but maybe to some right on the line.
 
In a nutshell, OP stepped on and over the shop owner and did so sneakily & surreptitiously. That is my view for whatever it's worth..

62 Caddy, You say I did this "sneakily and surreptitiously" In what way was I surreptitious ? He saw me STARING at the ticket on the receiver. He saw me look at the faceplate. The damned thing was on a shelf at shoulder level right next to me as I stood at the front counter. I point blank directly asked him about the receiver and the fact it said "DISPOSE" on the ticket and he told me it was not worth repairing. Do you really think the shop owner was completely blindsided and had no idea that I wanted to purchase the broken receiver ? I asked him directly what he was going to do with the thing and he ignored me. The only thing I did not do is pull out my wallet and start waving cash at him. SO PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I DID THAT WAS SNEAKY AND SURREPTITIOUS ??
 
I disagree. The diagnostic service and the purchase of the receiver are two separate transactions from two separate parties. Were it not for the shop, the OP would not have gotten the benefits he did.

Shop owner is under no obligation to provide information that's none of the general public's business and in his shoes I would have made that clear. OP should've taken the cue when the shop owner walked away - twice.

In a nutshell, OP stepped on and over the shop owner and did so sneakily & surreptitiously. That is my view for whatever it's worth. Surreptitious: obtained, done, made, etc., by stealth; secret or unauthorized; clandestine, without approval.

I've encountered a couple similar situations at my own business and I sure didn't appreciate it when it happened to me. Anyone else in the same position wouldn't appreciate it either.


This is exactly how I view it to. Well put 62caddy
 
boatdrinks77, it was not your information to act upon regardless whether you could see it easily. You made the distinct effort to memorise the name and number and that alone is a breach of business ethics. So what you are saying is if something isn't bolted down its fair game to snatch ?

Like I said previously, why the shop owner didn't tell you to take a hike is beyond me, but maybe because you bought something off him he probably felt obliged to bite his tongue.

Regardless you were the winner in the end and you shouldn't have come here to confess your sins looking for redemption, because you not going to find much here.
 
62 Caddy, You say I did this "sneakily and surreptitiously" In what way was I surreptitious ? He saw me STARING at the ticket on the receiver. He saw me look at the faceplate. The damned thing was on a shelf at shoulder level right next to me as I stood at the front counter. I point blank directly asked him about the receiver and the fact it said "DISPOSE" on the ticket and he told me it was not worth repairing. Do you really think the shop owner was completely blindsided and had no idea that I wanted to purchase the broken receiver ? I asked him directly what he was going to do with the thing and he ignored me. The only thing I did not do is pull out my wallet and start waving cash at him. SO PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I DID THAT WAS SNEAKY AND SURREPTITIOUS ??

What do you think would have happened had you whipped out your smart phone or pencil and paper and started taking down the owner's information right in front of the shop owner?

You didn't do that - did you.

And we both know what would've happened once he caught you doing that so you did the next best thing.

It's no different if someone walked into my office and by chance happened to see a title laying on my desk for a car that someone left with me to scrap, sell or whatever. And you think it's okay to go over my head by mere chance the information happened to be in view at that time?

Count yourself lucky you got away with it. Were I the shop owner, you would not have been so fortunate.
 
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62 Caddy, You say I did this "sneakily and surreptitiously" In what way was I surreptitious ? He saw me STARING at the ticket on the receiver. He saw me look at the faceplate. The damned thing was on a shelf at shoulder level right next to me as I stood at the front counter. I point blank directly asked him about the receiver and the fact it said "DISPOSE" on the ticket and he told me it was not worth repairing. Do you really think the shop owner was completely blindsided and had no idea that I wanted to purchase the broken receiver ? I asked him directly what he was going to do with the thing and he ignored me. The only thing I did not do is pull out my wallet and start waving cash at him. SO PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I DID THAT WAS SNEAKY AND SURREPTITIOUS ??

Someone you barely know comes into your house and sees your sister's phone number written down. Afterwards they call her for a date. How do you feel?
 
I have worked in and or been around plenty of shops for over forty years. Only know from my experiences and can not speak of all shops. That said, there are some shop owner's who will give a high estimate in the hope of then keeping a desired item, or if not then make enough to be happy. A shop owner knows people and a good one is able to read between the lines when talking to the owner of the equipment. I doubt seriously if it was ever going to be tossed out.
 
I find this topic interesting, which is why I posted the question to begin with.

On my first post, I said "I feel kinda guilty." I thought about that today and I think I feel guilty because I only gave the original owner a $20 bill. Obviously the original owner had no idea of the SX-3900's value (working that is) otherwise he would have asked me for more that $20. Then again, maybe he is well off and the money makes no difference to him. He was an older gentleman and his demeanor was upbeat when he said I could have it for free if I thought I could fix it...... I offered to pay the diagnostic fee and he said no. Maybe he was happy to give it to someone who truly was excited about getting it.

If I walked into a thrift store and saw the SX-3900 sitting on the shelf with a price tag of $89.99 I would have surely picked it up and purchased it. $99.99? -- still would have bought it. $129.99 --- yep, probably still would have grabbed it.

I do know that everyone here on AK would buy it for $20. Dan :music:
I don't see a problem.I picked up a beautiful Marantz 2330b w/wood case like that some years ago_Owner had it in shop for months Asked for his number to see if he wanted to sell.He said sure.Gave him $100.Cost me quite a bit more than that to fix.The days of the $20 thrift units are fading.$80-130 is not uncommon for units and speakers.Picked up a very nice set of Pioneer cs99a for $130 with the intent to flip.Got $500 a month later.I don't like how the owner ignored your question.That's enough for me to not like the man.So what was the repair estimates?
 
62 Caddy, You say I did this "sneakily and surreptitiously" In what way was I surreptitious ? He saw me STARING at the ticket on the receiver. He saw me look at the faceplate. The damned thing was on a shelf at shoulder level right next to me as I stood at the front counter. I point blank directly asked him about the receiver and the fact it said "DISPOSE" on the ticket and he told me it was not worth repairing. Do you really think the shop owner was completely blindsided and had no idea that I wanted to purchase the broken receiver ? I asked him directly what he was going to do with the thing and he ignored me. The only thing I did not do is pull out my wallet and start waving cash at him. SO PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I DID THAT WAS SNEAKY AND SURREPTITIOUS ??
Some start reading into stuff way more than it needs to be.Dan I would have done the same thing.
 
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