Ever wondered what the inside of an Ohm FRS-11 looks like? me too.. lets find out

I cant access the resistor until I can get the contraption as a whole out of the can.
I mainly just havnt had time to do that yet but im gonna try to do it tonight.

Im definitely going to check it, along with all the caps. and what appears to be a transformer, but may just be an oddly shaped coil.

the thing that gets me though, is wouldnt the resistor only limit flow to the tweeter?
the woofer is out too right now, which makes me think theres a shared capacitor between them that is no more.

while im on it though, my dmm has a capacitance checker, is that the only test i need to do on the caps? and how would i go about testing a resistor? just check the ohm value of it?

thanks.
 
I cant access the resistor until I can get the contraption as a whole out of the can.
I mainly just havnt had time to do that yet but im gonna try to do it tonight.

Im definitely going to check it, along with all the caps. and what appears to be a transformer, but may just be an oddly shaped coil.

the thing that gets me though, is wouldnt the resistor only limit flow to the tweeter?
the woofer is out too right now, which makes me think theres a shared capacitor between them that is no more.

while im on it though, my dmm has a capacitance checker, is that the only test i need to do on the caps? and how would i go about testing a resistor? just check the ohm value of it?

thanks.

Set the DMM to Ohms and put the leads across the resistor ends. If you get a reading the resistors are good, if you get OL ... Huston, there's yer problem. My bet... of course cold solder joints, as mentioned, could be a issue as well.

YMMV

Cheers,

Bob
 
I will admit that the first time I saw the innards of a Walsh inverted cone loudspeaker (a photo of a Walsh 2 if memory serves) I was taken aback. But, after considering the matter, I would point out that internal esthetics are really unimportant and "name brand" electronic componentry is rather overrated. The thind about the Ohms is they do what is important well: they sound fantastic. And they are brilliantly engineered to be very robust in the field under extreme playing conditions (I know - I've played the heck out of them) and produce remarkable prodigous sound from an economy of materials.

About 15 years ago, I recall reading a review of the Ohm Pro-200 Sound Cyclinders in Stereo Review (of all places). I owned a pair and liked them to an extreme - they were my prime listening speaker for several years. The reviewers marveled at the excellent soundstaging and omni presentation. They were also quite amazed that these diminuitive floorstanders (4 foot high cyclinders with about 10" diameter footprint) produced measureable and almost serviceable output to 20 Hz! I would later find out, to my complete shagrin, that the Pro-200s utilize 6" woofers!

The inverted woofer in an Ohm Walsh loudspeaker may look pedestrian and ordinary; but, it is anything but. These woofers have been specifically engineered and spec'd out to work magic with the box. They have bass output, very high frequency extension, power ratings and midrange performance that cannot be achieved simultaneously with an ordinary woofer. I examined the insides of my Walsh 5 cabinets and the internal construction is quite remarkable. And the port is a very long, right angle tube of at least 5 inch diameter (!). The thing is, knowing the internal volume of the box and the port dimensions, I determined that there is no 12 inch woofer available retail that comes anywhere near providing the performance of the Walsh 5's, particularly bass extension anechoic flat to 25 Hz and in-room flat to 20 Hz.

Presently, I am listening to the Walsh 5000 drivers which I upgraded to from the Walsh 5 Series 3 headunits, which in turn were the upgrade from the classic Walsh 5s. I'll hold off on a detailed review until I've logged some serious listening hours. But let me say that these Walsh 5000s are incredible, light years superior to the Walsh 5's and audibly superior to the most excellent Walsh 5 Series 3. Truth be told: I decided to upgrade after one of the Walsh 5 Series 3 drivers developed an annoying resonance heard only on certain piano, vocal and horn recordings. Mind you I have logged several thousands hours including some heavy duty classical recordings by the likes of Mahler, Bruckner and Nielsen at concert hall sound levels. I was a little reluctant to spend $3000 to upgrade to the 5000s, certain that John Strohbeen could not possibly improve that much over the Walsh 5 Series 3. Man was I wrong! This looks to be the best $3000 audio investment I have made to date. If my preliminary impressions hold up under prolonged listening, I think John has built a loudspeaker for the ages. He has completely reengineered the inverted main drivers, using neodymium magnets, new voice coils and cloth surrounds (which should outlast me at age 53 for sure). I hope to comment in more detail later.

Now, I'm going back to listening the Guillot's organ playing on the Ohm Walsh 5000s!
 
So, I dont know why it took me this long to realize this, but.. the bottom of the can is glued to the base, a tar like glue, and if you pull hard enough it comes right off without damaging anything..

so, the problem was apparent as soon as I pulled the thing off...

ohmburn-1.jpg




this fuse is blown, if it just got tired of life or if another component in here made it blow remains to be seen, im leaning towards the latter
ohmburn-2.jpg


Thats a weird way to wrap a fuse.
 
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wd409,

Would you draw-up a schematic for these if you get the chance? I would love to know what some of those components are doing.

Thanks,
eurasian
 
man, I would love to know what they are doing too.. I just spent the last half hour in there staring at this wondering why so many things SEEM to be creating short circuits

that coil on the right for instance... its a 2 ended coil, each end connects to one of the woofer input terminals. but then one of the actual input wires goes over to the tweeter, so I guess its not shorting... its still weird as hell to sit there looking at the thing.


anyway, inplace of the looks-like-a-lightbulb fuse, I used a 3 amp circuit breaker and listened to it for a bit, it seems to be fine.. infact, it seems to have all of its volume back that it didnt even have when i got the things. but.. its also not in the canister atm. so there is damping I havnt accounted for that might bring it back down.


does anyone know where I can one of these funky looking fuses from? im thinking i'll just use a 3amp agc if I cant find one.
 
i have to agree with the others in terms of that crossover being a complete shamble. not only is the layout appalling but the fact that the components are actually attached to the bass/mid driver - wtf! all those vibrations caused by the driver must play havoc with the crossovers performance!
im not entirely sure why there is a fuse on the crossover - never seen that before - is that common on your side of the pond? certainly never seen it on any euro speakers...

while your at it, think about changing the caps if the speaker is over 10 years old. wont cost much and will improve the sq
 
I was planning to replace all the caps in both towers just so the sound matches.

especially now that I know how to get the canister off.. I wasnt looking forward to another wire cutting session... my hands were hurting all night after that.
 
lol, yeah wire cutters and speakers are never a good combination. if i were you i would think about relocating the x/o components to a piece of board then attaching said board to the inside of the cabinet...
 
For those complaining about the bulid quality.
Yes, they look bad, but its because they try to make the speakers a simple as possible.
Also I dont know if there is a difference between a crossover and a equalizer but Ohm Walsh's are equalized, with a simple roll of of the 2 drivers somewhere around 8 khz.
Also for the price, I'd guess about 300-500 hundred goes to the driver part. THe rest?
Those huge beautiful cabinets, They have a ton of wood and high quality veneer in them. Also IF they sound good, does the price matter that much?
Also the crossover/equalizer is outside of the tube, its in the cabinets.

Also you took those things apart wrong.
 
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Before you do....

If I were you I would think about relocating the x/o components to a piece of board then attaching said board to the inside of the cabinet...

While if this where my design, I certainly would have placed the crossover network separately in the interior/exterior of the speaker cabinets, in this case the results of a retro-move of the crossovers would be disastrous!

When inductors/chokes/coils (whatever name you like) are in a circuit (crossover network) and are placed close to one another (within ten inches or so) the values of the each inductor changes drastically! Also when inductors are placed next to a ferrous metal (like the drivers basket) the values change drastically!

My point is simply that the circuit designer must have taken this in to account during this crossover networks design. Moving the inductors now would throw the crossover points (actual) into chaos!

I am not qualified to critique the company’s crossover design in this case, however I think an earlier poster raised a valid concern when they theorized about mechanical resonances (within the inductors) as a result of the designers choice to place the crossover networks inductors on the drivers basket.

Just my opinion and you know what opinions are like.:yes:

Bill
 
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Also for the price, I'd guess about 300-500 hundred goes to the driver part. THe rest?
Those huge beautiful cabinets, They have a ton of wood and high quality veneer in them. Also IF they sound good, does the price matter that much?
Also the crossover/equalizer is outside of the tube, its in the cabinets.

Also you took those things apart wrong.

I think you are off by a factor of 10 or so in your parts cost estimate based on the photos taken by the OP.

Would you care to elaborate on (quantify) your rhetorical question about good sound/price?
 
Who cares what it looks like if it sounds good. My favorite speakers are a sheet of mylar with some wires glued to it. Should cost about $50.
 
My Walsh 2's have the crossover in the base of the unit, where the cheap ass piece-o-krap spring clip wire terminals used to be before they broke back in the late eighties...the first mod I ever did to mine were to install binding posts in the terminal board....

I got in touch with Ohm this past year and talked to John in an attempt to get a crossover schematic from them so I could rebuild mine properly...a-hole didn't want to give me information on a 25 year old design, rather he just wanted to sell me the "upgrade" with me returning my "can"...or if there was a problem they would "repair" them for $175!!! EACH...hell, the "upgraded" woofers use a foam surround, the cloth ones on my 25+ year old ones are still fine, I doubt that the foam will last that long....

It's just the thin foam that lines the can in mine has deteriorated and I thought that I'd just rebuild mine and build a more premium crossover while I was at it...I could buy all premium parts, coils, caps, etc, including binding posts and still not touch $175...

Guess Ohm didn't want me messing with my speakers...to heck with them...I do not feel like giving them $1K to $1.4K just to get the new and upgraded drivers, no matter how much better they may be...$350 for crossovers? F-ing ridiculous.
 
Who cares what it looks like if it sounds good. My favorite speakers are a sheet of mylar with some wires glued to it. Should cost about $50.

Ever rewired a Magneplanar?

If so, you wouldn't be so quick to toss out that $50 figure....
 
Ever rewired a Magneplanar?

If so, you wouldn't be so quick to toss out that $50 figure....

2 sets. SMGa and MGII's At a factory level with a machine and jig it would be a super EZ job. I manufacture for a living. I bet it gets applied all at once like a big stamp. i think it is a large field of magnets that drive the $$, well and demand like anything else.

Turbo Seca in your avatar?
 
For those complaining about the bulid quality.
Yes, they look bad, but its because they try to make the speakers a simple as possible.
Also I dont know if there is a difference between a crossover and a equalizer but Ohm Walsh's are equalized, with a simple roll of of the 2 drivers somewhere around 8 khz.

They use crossovers connected in the appropriate fashion to the commensurate driver...simply stated, a crossover separates frequencies and sends them to the appropriate driver...yes, there can be Zobels and other impedance compensation schemes that do tailor frequency response, but no real equalization...

Also for the price, I'd guess about 300-500 hundred goes to the driver part. THe rest?

Drivers look no better than units that could be sourced from Parts Express for under $100 retail, including those cheap-ass crossover components....for both cabinets.

Those huge beautiful cabinets, They have a ton of wood and high quality veneer in them. Also IF they sound good, does the price matter that much?
Also the crossover/equalizer is outside of the tube, its in the cabinets.

The earlier cabinets were nicer with their tapered pyramid shape, but were still nothing more than chipboard covered with veneer...a few pine cross braces inside and a chipboard top and bottom painted black...BFD...I've done veneering as well and at grossly inflated retail prices the Walnut veneer cost me less than $50 to do two cabinets the size of my Walsh 2's...

But, for any manufacturer to stay in business he must sell things for around four times what the bare costs associated with his merchandise are to break even and make enough money to keep in business...
 
2 sets. SMGa and MGII's At a factory level with a machine and jig it would be a super EZ job. I manufacture for a living. I bet it gets applied all at once like a big stamp. i think it is a large field of magnets that drive the $$, well and demand like anything else.

Yeah, there's the development costs of the jig for each panel to amortize, the materials used to actually glue the wire, the labor to wind the wire properly around the jig...yeah, materials for the bare panel I can see costing around $50 in wholesale terms, but not the labor to consistently turn out something that way day after day...I still think these things are mostly built by hand, not in big robotic machines...I could be wrong, but knowing the costs of robots and the ROI times involved, the profit margin of said speakers, and what I have observed with them in a nude state, I doubt that there's a whole lot of automation going on there...it would make more sense to have workers that did the job and did it well from year to year rather than the outlay for robotics...

Of course, many things have changed in the few years since my best friend retired from a major research institute where he was an actual robotics engineer...I used to go with him to all kinds of seminars on robots and their implementation back in the 1980's....back when there were the early Cincinnati Milacron robots being developed...before the Asians took over that field...

Turbo Seca in your avatar?

Yep, I bought it wrecked from a zipperhead in 1985, restored it over the next year, and still have it out in the garage...have collected all the parts to re-restore it except for a carb rebuild set and the rubber gaiters that cover the mirror arms, mine have kind of rotted a bit...but I have a really bad back and I need to build a lift for it to get it up to where I can work on it....no more sitting on the garage floor bending over for me...without having to take two days to recuperate from a few hours of work, that is, and lots of script meds for the pain...getting old SUCKS....I used to restore cars, even worked as the restoration manager for a transportation museum and restored a bunch of British cars for myself...back when you could still find them in the wrecking yards to scavenge parts from...but haven't had one since 1984...and now the arthritis and back problems won't even let me entertain that idea in any form of reality I know...I guess that's what beer is for!!!

It lets even old farts have dreams of grandeur!

As Wonder Warthog said to Lois Lamebrain "Well, I still have my snout"....

.
 
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