Excel ES-70EX4 -4 channel cartridge.

Vinylrockrob

Active Member
I bought this cartridge 29yrs ago. Don't ask me why, because I only listen to 2 channel anyway. I guess the perspex block that it came in sold me. Also maybe the gold coloured cartridge fitted inside took over and I just had to have it. Are these 4 channel carts still used by people today? I did have it fitted for a while on my Hitachi PS-38 DD TT. But I guess to do justice you had to have a 4 channel system.
 

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Do you still have the stylus? This was the main thing, at that time, that distinguished 4 channel cartridges from 2 channel. They had Shibata styli in them to be able to track the 20 - 45 kHz. frequencies used in CD-4 quad reproduction.

Most of them also wanted to see a 100k ohm load from the input contrasted to the normal 47k load for 2 channel. This wasn't a real critical spec. though.

That being said, there is absolutely no reason a CD-4 cartridge can't be used to play stereo records. In fact, most cartridges these days that a lot of enthusiasts recognize as being superior for sound and tracking have styli that are directly derived from the original Shibata. These all have a small front-to-back radius and a comparatively large top-to-bottom radius. The stylus can thus track higher frequencies as the smaller front-to-back radius allows it to follow the smaller groove modulations while the large top-to-bottom radius presents a lower per square inch pressure on the plastic for less record wear.

Of course I, being a devoted quad guy, recommend that you get a demodulator, another amp and speakers, and some Quadradisc records and thrill to the wonderful sound of CD-4! OK, it's bit of an effort to get it to work correctly but, once you're there - nirvana!

Doug
 
Doug G, No I don't have the stylus anymore. You see, this turntable of mine has been stored away safely at home with this cart fitted now for 12yrs. It is only very recently that I have brought it out to have it serviced which has been done. When I think back I'm sure the colour of the stylus casing was 'red'.
 
I've the AT15SA and it sounds incredible. I was going to get into quad but extreme disappointment with SQ/Q8 turned me off it- and that was the easier of the quad options. The one and only time I was impressed with quad was "Riders on the Storm" on The Best of The Doors Q8. Jim's singing vocal in the front and his whispery voice in the rear. I still get moist thinking about it. But one song on one tape out of 15-20 was not impressive enough for me. John Lennon's Imagine absolutely blew in quad. Just double stereo, with the rear channels at 1/5 the volume.

Where was I?

Oh yeah. AT15SA. Love it. :D
 
The CD-4 record of the Doors best of has the same effect on Riders. CD-4 is the only quadraphonic system for LPs that is truly discrete and that is a big difference.

Although there are good SQ and QS records out there (and I have some), when CD-4 is correctly set up, it is incredible.

That At15Sa was a top CD-4 cartridge in the seventies and I bet with a good demodulator and extra amp and speakers, you'd thrill to the Quadradiscs.

Joni Mitchell's "Court and Spark" or "Hissing of Summer Lawns" and Gordon Lightfoot's "Sundown" are some more fantastic CD-4 LPs. And, of course, all of Tomita's output.

Doug
 
Quad IS truly amazing once set up properly.
Im working towards a complete tube quad system.

If you want to throw that cartridge away, theres a old cartridge recycling center near my house. Id be glad to take care of it for you. Ha!

What sold me on quad was Ted Nugent's Stranglehold.
The drum rolls and guitar dives will make you dizzy.
 
Yes their is a Shibata I can purchase for this cart.
It's the S70X4 to fit the ES70X4. MM.
0.75-2.0g.
See attached pic.
 

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That's at Soundring correct? They have a lot of styli!

All I can say is, it would be extremely cool to restore your Excel cartridge to operation even if you don't delve into quad.

Doug
 
Time to resurrect an old thread.

I acquired an Excel ES-70EX body a while ago and ordered an EVG (JICO) stylus 614-DQ from carolesneedles.com for $30. This is of course a Shibata stylus and I believe as such it is the ES-70EX4 direct replacement, but works with a wide range of the EX-70 family (and other re-badges such as Sanyo, Onkyo, Fischer, etc.).

I've just started to play it this evening but so far I am impressed. Clean, detailed and deep sound. There seems to be quite a number of sources for styli still for this cartridge family, but many listings are poorly referenced.

es70ex1.jpg


Pretty good for $30!
 
These are indeed nifty little carts. While I wish I had the EX4 body, because I'm not certain that all the ES-70 bodies have the same inductance [spoiler: They don't], I've had lots of fun sticking the 614-DQ where it doesn't belong, as in my ES-70S and in a Shure M91ED I had lying around. Looks like nothing special, but it's a great stylus.
 
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Time for one more thread resurrection:

Turns out that some smoke-colored styli being sold as 614-DQs are actually DEs, that is, ellipticals, probably 3x7, maybe 2x7, from the look of them. Very nice DEs-- tie wire and tapered cantilever-- but not Shibatas, which does take some of the fun away. I have, as it turns out, some of each. The dead giveaway that you've got an elliptical is a flat ground on the front of the diamond, facing directly forward, and one on the back. The Shibata will only have them on the back (ie, facing toward the back of the cartridge, where the terminal pins are), two of them, and they're quite large. But even if you have one of the "pretend Shibatas", it will still sound very good. Purchase carefully.

I still don't know for certain whether any of these 614-DQs I have is an example of a genuine Excel stylus, but I doubt it, since Excel mentions the use of a tie wire, and none of my Excel-type styli have it, except for an Astatic NMR Shibata for my Excel QD-700, the DFR copy of the Onkyo DN-25 Shibata for the Excel ES-70EX4, and the 614-DE mentioned above, which is a copy of the Excel ES-70EX.

Close examination and the willingness to believe my eyes (if only just this once) shows that many of the clear red 614-DQs I have with diasa mounts are not Shibatas, but neither are they ellipticals, and certainly not conicals. They're reminiscent of Empire's 4Dimensional stylus. Two small cuts either side of center, on both front and rear of the diamond, a total of four cuts. Easy enough to mistake these for ellipticals when you see the first "flat" or facet, but then rotating the diamond reveals another one, and neither is at the 90° / 270° points where you'd find elliptical flats.
 
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Time to resurrect an old thread.

I acquired an Excel ES-70EX body a while ago and ordered an EVG (JICO) stylus 614-DQ from carolesneedles.com for $30. This is of course a Shibata stylus and I believe as such it is the ES-70EX4 direct replacement, but works with a wide range of the EX-70 family (and other re-badges such as Sanyo, Onkyo, Fischer, etc.).

I've just started to play it this evening but so far I am impressed. Clean, detailed and deep sound. There seems to be quite a number of sources for styli still for this cartridge family, but many listings are poorly referenced.

es70ex1.jpg


Pretty good for $30!

Howdy fellow Van_Isle audionut,

I recently acquired a Thorens TD 160, which came with an Excel ES-70EX4. Now I'm looking to replace the 35+ year old needle. Seems like Carol's needles is no more. Do you have a good source for 614-DQ stylii now?

Thanks! (Any interest in a free buy1-get-1-free voucher for Victoria Symphony concerts? Let me know if you do - astronaut Chris Hadfield with us soon!)
 
Some great debate as to whether or not that EVG stylus is a true Shibata. EBay seller Merlin! has a Shibata for that cartridge ... price is really getting up there on it though. Turntableneedles is out of stock (you could email Kyle and ask if he is expecting any ... he did edit the listing to change the brand to his new 'in-house' BLISS brand so maybe he is expecting to get some stock). LPTunes has one listed for a decent price .... but sister-site LPGear doesn't have stock ... hmmm....

Thanks ... not a big Symphony buff but I'll ask the Admiral! We used to go occasionally when friends of the family had 'season tickets' and they couldn't use them .... man that must have been 15 to 20 years ago!

However .... 2 weeks to Elton John ... countdown timer is set!
 
Hi Van Isle,

Just got a stylus from ebay for the ES70EX-4, that was advertised as a shibata. Thus far it sounds mighty fine on my Thorens TD 160. Not sure if it is an EVG? Could you direct me to any online debate about whether they are true shibatas?

Cheers from Saanich.

PS. The Chris Hadfield show was excellent (nobody covers Bowie's Space Oddity like a true Spaceman)! And my big moment in the spotlight - playing a Mozart concerto - was pretty fine, too! ;)
 
Yay Chris Hadfield!
As for the stylus, with a little cheap hand magnifier, preferably 60X, you can easily tell a Shibata from let's say a typical elliptical. A Shibata looks, from the front of the cartridge, just like a conical, but from the back, the part that faces down the groove, you see two big flats angled rather like a cowcatcher or maybe a snowplow. Can't miss it. A typical elliptical will have single smallish flats, ground at right angles to the groove, of equal size and shape, on the front and the back.
 
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