Fancy-pants filter capacitors worth it?

Ah geez . . .

EDIT for clarity: Meaning somebody, not me, is likely to take offense at these statements.
No offense taken--when you post a thread, you put yourself out there; however, you also get other people's input and ideas. When I hear that filter caps are part of the power circuit vs. audio circuit, that informs my parts selection tremendously. And I can definitely be a fool! The day I know it all will be the day I die.
 
Even standard capacitors have various grades assigned. Consider the high end caps yet another step up. Reason they're made (and expensive) is the quality of the material used, and those materials are used because they're inherently better when it comes to signal integrity and stability. They also tend to be much closer in spec - test a hundred standard caps, and you might be surprised at how far off most of them are.
That was my thinking. Rather than pore over max ripple (also a famous porn actor) specs, etc., a Nichicon Gold Tune or Mundorf Swishy-Pants is definitely going to be okay in a nice amp--I simply do not know enough about hi-fi parts to know what I can "get away with" and can't, but if professional restorers use these parts so can I. When I shot film, I used Kodachrome 64 with a heavy tripod because, well, that's how the pros did it and I was never disappointed.
 
Mundorfs are made in Europe and have a high reputation there (and since they're made in Europe,Germany mostly, they cost more here like here https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/mundorf-capacitors/ and are hard to find, don't buy them on ebay). If it's the right price then buy it. The Kemets also have a very good reputation and I buy plenty of their products. You should base your decision on fit and price for either the Mundorfs or the Kemets.
People that put audio capacitors in the power stages are fools. There's no sound in the power stages and as stated you need capacitors with high ripple current, surge voltage and life.
Certified fool. Working on my Professional Fruitcake license as we speak. :confused:
 
What are crappy capacitors, the K-Tel equivalents of the passive components world?

Well, if you get filter caps with the proper specs from Panasonic, United Chemicon, Nichicon, Kemet, or CDE - and from a reputable vendor so you know they are genuine - you will almost certainly not get a crappy capacitor.
 
Well, if you get filter caps with the proper specs from Panasonic, United Chemicon, Nichicon, Kemet, or CDE - and from a reputable vendor so you know they are genuine - you will almost certainly not get a crappy capacitor.
Ah, yes, the proper specs. Beyond uF and V, and to order from Mouser or Digi-Key, I do not know much about cap selection. I know if it's in a hot place, like near a heat sink, you want a long life, high temp rating, but ESR and max ripple and all that other stuff--? When I was a bicycle mechanic for REI, we always used the best parts for our repairs; when I painted houses I always used Benjamin Moore or California--I guess those are kind of simple choices compared to what we're talking about her--but my tendency (to be altered, pending more experienced hands) is to use the best parts and materials for labor-intensive projects, especially if I am the customer.
 
Big cans with terminals often determine which you buy (sometimes your size narrows you to 1 or 2 options).
I opted to try some Mundoffs in a rebuild in a MAC 1900 a few years ago. They were the right size, value, and a few bucks more than the one or 2 options i had. I removed old and when i went to put new in i was bit by a factor i hadn't considered. The mundorffs had a thick insulated sleeve around terminals which prevented them from passing through chassis. I had to source others and sold the Mundorfs on BT for a small loss. I could have drilled chassis but that had a butcher feel i was trying to avoid. Just something else to consider.IMG_5071.JPG IMG_5072.JPG IMG_5075.JPG IMG_5076.JPG IMG_5113.JPG
 
That's a pretty unusual problem to encounter, anyone could be caught out by that one, glad you found a way round it without 'butchery'. :thumbsup:
 
Big cans with terminals often determine which you buy (sometimes your size narrows you to 1 or 2 options).
I opted to try some Mundoffs in a rebuild in a MAC 1900 a few years ago. They were the right size, value, and a few bucks more than the one or 2 options i had. I removed old and when i went to put new in i was bit by a factor i hadn't considered. The mundorffs had a thick insulated sleeve around terminals which prevented them from passing through chassis. I had to source others and sold the Mundorfs on BT for a small loss. I could have drilled chassis but that had a butcher feel i was trying to avoid. Just something else to consider.View attachment 1219470 View attachment 1219471 View attachment 1219473 View attachment 1219475 View attachment 1219476
The same is with the Kemets on my picture. You also have to take into account the publicized lengths at Mouser, as terminals may be extending more than expected.
(or read: the old caps may be shorter than expected).
For some old equipment I sometimes fix old switch mode power supplies having big caps and usually they just fit in, as many times the form factor of the casing is depending on the cap or the other way around. I have been fooled by length differences several times, already. Since then, I very carefully watch the datasheet for sizes.
Now, these big size terminals on Kemet, apparently Mundorf and most certain many others may also compromise PCB layout if they are mounted on a double or multilayer PCB, the big terminals can short out adjecent printed circuit board tracks...
 
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Sometimes it helps to reverse the question (but not the polarity!). Why wouldn't you use them? They meet the voltage spec. They meet the value spec. They meet the physical spec. They can't help but meet any esr requirements. If you can stand the color and they meet the wallet spec, go for it.

There is also the need to handle high amounts of ripple current over the entire operational life of the device. Exceeding that spec on the capacitor won't cause immediate failure, but will shorten it's operational life, possibly significantly.
 
IMO, almost all audio equipment uses generous PS cap values to keep ripple voltage low, plus it never operates at full power, save for the test bench. The ripple current rating of almost any cap with the right value will invariably be greater than the actual demands. Unless you listen to that modern boogie woogie music at unhealthy volume levels.:eek: Naturally, the specs for the new parts should always be checked, but we often don't have a spec for the specific parts used in vintage units, especially if they were customs for the manufacturer.
 
IMO, almost all audio equipment uses generous PS cap values to keep ripple voltage low, plus it never operates at full power, save for the test bench. The ripple current rating of almost any cap with the right value will invariably be greater than the actual demands. Unless you listen to that modern boogie woogie music at unhealthy volume levels.:eek: Naturally, the specs for the new parts should always be checked, but we often don't have a spec for the specific parts used in vintage units, especially if they were customs for the manufacturer.

There is ripple current demands on the power supply caps at idle, just to keep the ripple to the rest of the amp at a minimum. Since vendors like Digikey and Mouser have links to the spec sheets, it is easy to read and select the cap with the best ripple current rating from among a limited selection of caps. Indeed, for a project (recap) I finished up yesterday, when looking at the caps for the power supply, I used Mouser's compare several items feature and the ripple current rating was right there. Since these general purpose caps are less costly then Mundorf, and do the job equally well, for possibly longer then the "higher quality" cap with unknown ripple spec, there is every reason to go with them and not the expensive ones.

In short, why pay more for "good enough for purpose" (maybe) when you save money on something designed for that use?

Shelly+D
 
One thing I tend to avoid is replacing caps in a tuner section. Those can be quite finicky, with the caps sometimes hand picked at the factory to match the circuit for best reception. I'd only do substitutions if I had the test equipment to do a full realignment on the tuner when done, leave the work to a pro, or just leave well enough alone if it's working.
 
Big cans with terminals often determine which you buy (sometimes your size narrows you to 1 or 2 options).
I opted to try some Mundoffs in a rebuild in a MAC 1900 a few years ago. They were the right size, value, and a few bucks more than the one or 2 options i had. I removed old and when i went to put new in i was bit by a factor i hadn't considered. The mundorffs had a thick insulated sleeve around terminals which prevented them from passing through chassis. I had to source others and sold the Mundorfs on BT for a small loss. I could have drilled chassis but that had a butcher feel i was trying to avoid. Just something else to consider.View attachment 1219470 View attachment 1219471 View attachment 1219473 View attachment 1219475 View attachment 1219476
The will-the-damned-thing-fit factor.
 
One thing I tend to avoid is replacing caps in a tuner section. Those can be quite finicky, with the caps sometimes hand picked at the factory to match the circuit for best reception. I'd only do substitutions if I had the test equipment to do a full realignment on the tuner when done, leave the work to a pro, or just leave well enough alone if it's working.
I've heard that, too, and will try to remember to not do that!
 
There is ripple current demands on the power supply caps at idle, just to keep the ripple to the rest of the amp at a minimum. Since vendors like Digikey and Mouser have links to the spec sheets, it is easy to read and select the cap with the best ripple current rating from among a limited selection of caps. Indeed, for a project (recap) I finished up yesterday, when looking at the caps for the power supply, I used Mouser's compare several items feature and the ripple current rating was right there. Since these general purpose caps are less costly then Mundorf, and do the job equally well, for possibly longer then the "higher quality" cap with unknown ripple spec, there is every reason to go with them and not the expensive ones.

In short, why pay more for "good enough for purpose" (maybe) when you save money on something designed for that use?

Shelly+D
That is good common sense, informed by lots of experience, which I am still acquiring! Thank you for telling me about this. I am probably not going to use the Mundorfs and will focus on caps that fit right and do the job; the money I save will go toward buying more CDs!
 
What are crappy capacitors, the K-Tel equivalents of the passive components world?
This subject has been mentioned to death on AK over the past decade. Here we go again:
-Remember, with electrolytics now in 2018, that the counterfeit rate is pushing 50%. Freshness and date of manufacture is everything. Even with good re sellers like Mouser and Digikey who have huge inventories they can not and do not verify every single unit..
-Tier levels are everything now. This article should be a sticky: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supplies-101,4193-5.html
-As already mentioned, always go with poly vs electrolytic if possible.
-Always too much emphasis on exact size. Mod your replacements or chassis and fit the replacements if possible. Insulate the leads with heatshrink if needed unless you have to have exact size snap-ins which is rarely the situation. You can always modify.
-Never and I mean never replace any electrolytic with a tier 3 or 4 brand name from a shady seller. Most consumer electronics all contain tier 3 or 4 lytics from the factory..
 
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