Discussion in 'Exclusively Sansui' started by mattsd, Aug 2, 2018.
Beautiful piece ! Congrats on a nice receiver .
So it comes in 2 pieces ? That is cool !
And here she is in my tower of power. Seriously, I never thought I would have this many monster receivers. I have a Technics SA-1000 here as well, though that is in for repair and not mine. Don't worry, I only posed the Rotel for the photo, it doesn't stay there.
So whats your impressions of the sound?
Did you end up needing to do much work to it?
Just needed the new drivers, two outputs and a good cleaning of both the controls and cosmetically. So far the sound is amazing, I can see this being a killer sounding receiver once recapped and upgraded. A comparison against the 1980 wouldn't be fair at this point since the 1980 is rebuilt and the 22000 is stock, but I'm going to compare them this weekend and see what they sound like.
Looks good Matt!
Nice, what did you use for drivers? Its a bit tricky finding something with the same bandwidth in a TO220 for these. I ended up getting some NOS toshiba's from Germany.(plus some spares)
There are not many caps in the signal path, some on the Phono pre, flat amp and EQ, and thats it, I used Nichi ES for the Bipolar and Nichi KT for polarised, and Nichi PW in the powersupply...
I went up to 22,000µF for the mains, can't remember what make the caps are, but I am actually going to slip some Gold Tunes in there when I get a chance.
The tuner is very interesting to align, when you do though, it comes up great, it has amazing performance. Of course you have to get a bit creative with some of the steps as Sansui love to specify a GeneScope for the IF alignment...
I use my tracking generator and Spectrum analyser for that...
You might find you will want to disconnect the trigger diodes for the over-current protection on boards F2902 and F2903, which is D12.
The way its set up, you can barely make 100watts RMS before the protection kicks in, this is when you're playing music.
Of course when you run a sine wave, it goes to to 220 watts on the meter which is what power Sansui decided to allow us to have, but on a brick wall basis....and this is where I think Sansui blew it, because obviously music is dynamic, some of those peaks are fast, too fast for any meter to pick up and harmless to the amplifier as the are only µS peaks, but it trips the protection.
I messed with the circuit a bit, but found it was still too trigger happy.
It really needs some sort of "look ahead limiting" which allows a certain level of peak to pass, and then just clamp the rails rather than shutting the amp down.
Looking forward to your impressions of the 22 when you compare to the 1980....
I got some NOS Toshiba's as well. I found a source that has genuine 2SC2238B transistors in the Y gain class and found a lot of 2SA968B transistors in both O and Y gain classes. I did read about the overprotective protection circuit, I'll see if I can do anything with it once I get into it to do a recap. And of course, I'll post a thread on it as well.
So Matt....ever get a chance to compare?
Couldn't have fallen into better hands. Congratulations, Matt. I know you'll have this thing tip-top soon.
And while I have gotten away from receivers altogether (due to lack of skills such as most of the posters in this thread have) I am just a tiny bit envious.
I didn't have a chance to do it that weekend, but I did today!
So, for the songs, I picked a fairly eclectic mix, covering a wide range of genres.
Randy Johnston: Wonder Why. Awesome jazz track with a killer Hammond B-3 solo by Joey Defrancesco
Shelby Lynn: Just A Little Lovin'. Very intimate track, excellent detail and transparency
Bo Steif Dream Machine: Heart. A very dynamic track, dobro solo leads it off into a massive drum, you can shake the house with the beats. Good for testing dynamics.
London Grammar: Rooting For You. Beautiful and very well recorded indie vocal with minimal instruments, lots of reverb.
Infected Mushroom: Demons of Pain. Well recorded electronic track, very precise sounding and good dynamics
Nils Lofgren: Keith Don't Go. One of the best live acoustic recordings I've ever heard. The detail and imaging are incredible, one of my go to tracks for testing any system.
Both receivers were allowed a half hour to warm up and settle in. Source is a Raspberry Pi with a heavily modded Hifiberry DAC+ Pro. Speakers are my recapped Polk SDA-1C. Speaker cables are Audioquest Type 4 and the RCA cables are a limited custom cable that was made by a local electronics wizard near me. Both receivers are completely flat, all tone and loudness controls disabled and both receiver were volume matched with a 1KHz tone.
We'll start off with the SX-1980. It has been fully recapped and restored, no special mods other than the current source mods on the power supply.
Wonder Why: Very warm sounding on this track, strong mid-bass, almost bloated. Clear highs though they sound slightly smeared
Just A Little Lovin': Very nice imaging, excellent detail, strong, almost bloated mid-bass again noted.
Heart: Excellent timbre and good reverb tails, gives a good sense of being in a large space. Powerful drum hits, noted that they seem slightly slow.
Rooting For You: Excellent imaging and reverb tails, good detail. Noted that it becomes slightly congested/smeared in some spots
Demons of Pain: Good imaging and excellent vocal, electronic bass beat and highs seem to lack a little snap, but do not sound bad. Mid-bass comes through very strong again
Keith Don't Go: Awesome imaging, very transparent vocal. Highs are good, but do seem to lack a little snap especially in the strings, almost like they have a slight glaze to them
Overall notes: Very powerful sounding, though the mid-bass seems a little exaggerated. The highs also seem to have a slight glaze to them and lack the snap I'm used to hearing with some of the tracks. Not a bad sounding receiver at all however.
Now for the Sansui G-22000, keep in mind this has not been recapped or touched other than to clean the controls and replace the transistors.
Wonder Why: Again, warm sounding with a strong mid-bass, however the mid-bass has a little more definition with this receiver. Highs are about the same, though there is a little more "tizz" in the cymbals
Just A Little Lovin': A large difference compared to the 1980. The mid-bass is much more tight and defined, the soundstage presentation makes the speakers almost disappear. Everything has a natural flow that is hard to describe, but it feels much closer to how it would sound if you were there in the studio. Highs have a little more snap and perceived detail. Much more enjoyable to listen to.
Heart: Very similar to the 1980, but the reverb tails trail off faster and do not ring out as much. Gives a more intimate feel to this track. Bass drum hits have a little more precision and speed, but lack some of the reverb effect the 1980 gives to them.
Rooting For You: Excellent imaging, detail and separation of her voice and the instruments/reverb are much better than the 1980, a lot less smearing/congestion noted. Reverb is similar, though the tails seem to trail off a little faster.
Demons of Pain: Good imaging, bass and highs are more snappy with better perceived detail. Mid-bass is a little less prominent. The vocal is a little recessed compared to the 1980, but is very well imaged.
Keith Don't Go: Similar to the 1980, but with a little more snap and detail to the strings. Nils's vocal is slight recessed, but imaging is amazing, very precise and everything has a clarity that draws you into the music.
Overall notes: Very quick amp with excellent detail, even unrestored. The highs have a pleasing speed and clarity and it sounds faster overall than the 1980. For me, it is more pleasing to listen to as I like a lot of detail and clarity along with good soundstaging. It seems that the better the recording, the more the 22000 pulls away from the 1980. That said, you would likely not notice the differences unless you compared them head to head.
For me, the winner is the 22000, and as good as it sounds now, I can only imagine what it will sound like once recapped. However, if you prefer a warmer sound, the 1980 would be the better choice.
Thats a great assessment and confirms how I perceive the sound of the G22000. With the right speakers, it warms up a bit, I feel it pairs very well with my JBL L7's.
Thanks for the time you took to write your review, was an enjoyable read...
Thanks Matt for the review. You gave a very precise breakdown on those units and I respect your opinion. There is one of those Sansui's not ten minutes from me for sale and it is killing me!...lol.
I do love the 1980 you recapped for me played thru HPM-150's though so trying to talk myself out if it.
Get it, I wouldn't even think about it....
I had a customers SX1980 for about a month, this was not long before I bought my G22000 back, when I heard the G22, I immediately knew that I no longer had any desire to have a SX1980.
Matt's review is very similar to how I feel about the G22 sound...
I think it would be nice to compare the G22k to an SX-1250.
I've had 2 of those and I'm sure at some point another will find it's way to me.
Well then, look what we have here.......
Nice acquisition, Matt. And very good work on the cleanup and refresh.
I hope your floor is reinforced under that stand.
Nice piece. I got bolts for mine from Pete, and they are excellent. The preamp/tuner section is slow to wear out. These are very roomy and well engineered, so heat is not really an issue in the pre section. Yet to see one with any real problems. The amps can be a different story though. Great score!
I am very envious of your find. Having the skills that you have makes it a high probability that that thing will be restored the way it should be. My 1250 and 1280 that you did for me are still cranking out some great tunes and also great movies, as both are in the living room. Totally stereo, no 5.1 or anything for us. I, like the others hope that you keep this one. With your skills it would seem that the 22,000 deserves you as much you do it. I hope this beast will give you much enjoyment over the years.
What is your experience with the amps?
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