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Finally got the last receiver I'll ever need

Discussion in 'Exclusively Sansui' started by mattsd, Aug 2, 2018.

  1. kevzep

    kevzep Its all about the Music

    I have had a lot of experience with the G22 amps, and I'd say they are fairly reliable to be honest. They are a high speed amp so when they fail they usually do so with catastrophic results...
    I find them however to be quite stable and once restored to be very reliable..
     

     

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  2. centsless

    centsless Super Member

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    Being pretty rare, I can't see anyone with lots of experience...but was directing my question to Many Moons because of his statement. Curious to see what their experience was.

    I am coming to conclusion that my want is greater than the need. I don't work on audio so getting items repaired is a hassle anymore...but I do know if I went and listened to this recapped Sansui, that I would probably leave with it!...lol.
     
    ManyMoonsAudio likes this.
  3. ManyMoonsAudio

    ManyMoonsAudio AKA paul79 Sponsor Subscriber

    Messages:
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    I have owned the G-33000, my father owned the G-22000. Worked on more than a few G-22000's, and 2 other G-33000's other than mine. Rare yes, especially the G-33000, but my world is small. Never seen a wore out pre/tuner, but a couple of the G-22000 amps were pretty toast. I will say allot of these that are out there are hardly used "collector pieces", so chances are if they look good, they are good.
     
  4. centsless

    centsless Super Member

    Messages:
    1,078
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    ohio
    Thanks for reply. More opinions...the better. I need to make time to go for a listen.
     
  5. kevzep

    kevzep Its all about the Music

    I have spent hours and hours on my one, I can work on it with my eyes closed, I don't need to necessarily work on many of them to see how the design is, how they are constructed and find the idiosyncrasies....they are a good amplifier and the design is solid and reliable for such a high speed design. The only thing that I found annoying is the way Sansui designed their Over-current protection. Its a static threshold which trips the protection at 220watts @ 8Ω. I have removed the detector diodes from mine to disable it, and also from the G9000. Music is dynamic and as soon as there is a peak over the static threshold, then it trips the protection, well before the RMS output is anywhere near the danger area. Small nanosecond peaks such as this will not damage the amplifier, they might if subjected to that particular level for a period of time. What they should have done is some sort of limiter circuit that allows the peaks, some sort of look ahead limiter that clamps the rails to prevent clipping and over-current damage.....If you run 4Ω speakers, the over-current protection is extremely trigger happy and its gets really annoying.
    It is true what Paul says though about the pre-amp. I like the way Sansui used the lever switches for almost everything, as they are easily dismantled and the tarnish cleaned off the sliver plated contacts.
    The CONNECTED/SEPARATEFD switch is a weak point, its very very difficult to get to, and they invariably always cause dropouts.
    But you can basically bypass it by coming out of the pre-amp output on the side instead of the output on the back of the pre-amp if you get sick of cleaning that switch every year or so...

    The want is always greater than the need, but for these units, they are going up and up and up and up in price, they are rare, they sound stunning, and its definitely worth getting one of you can.
    I was lucky to be able to buy mine back after I sold it 6 years ago, its never ever leaving me this time. I think it may be the only one in New Zealand!!
     
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  6. centsless

    centsless Super Member

    Messages:
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    Most of my speakers are 4 ohm and why I mostly use the MC 2205 in my great room. Thanks for informing me on that weakness.
     

     

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  7. kevzep

    kevzep Its all about the Music

    Well, its more a inadequate current protection design, the amplifier doesn't actually have a weakness, quite the opposite, but you can't experience what the amplifier is capable of with the current protection the way it is.
    My JBL L7's are 6Ω Nominal, and I think much like B&W 800 series speakers, they have some rather low impedance dips at certain frequencies, so the G9000 and G22000 wouldn't run them very well at all.
    Take those detector diodes out and it will give you a whole new capability.
    Yes the amp gets hot, but thats what the fan is for, I have had the fan come on a couple of times, but it has to be really cranking for that to happen....
    I think the G22000 power-amp sounds better than a MC2205, I used to have a C33>MC2205 doing the job in my music room, once I got the G22000 in there and the current circuit disabled, I feel I like the sound of the G a lot more than the Mc setup I had....
     
  8. KingBubba

    KingBubba "Too Much Stuff" Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    I had issues with my connected/separated on my G8000. Every so often I would have to clean with Deoxit. The last cleaning I finally had some Caig Shield, which is designed to seal the components that were cleaned, I used it and have had no return of the dropouts. The same is true for my Sansui Model Eight Deluxe. The tape 1 and 2 were always causing dropouts, but, after using the Shield, I have had no problems at all. Try it, you'll like it.
     
  9. centsless

    centsless Super Member

    Messages:
    1,078
    Location:
    ohio
    Yea...I had a recapped G-8000 that I ended up selling when my AR3's would shut it down at about fifty watts on bass heavy music. It was such a pretty unit too.

    And Kev....what you are doing to the 22000 is exactly what gives me pause. I don't work on them!...:)....and after paying good money for one....I got to work on it again?
     
  10. Overundr1

    Overundr1 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,512
    Location:
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    Interesting post sir, kind of hints at the whole vintage issue so many face. These monster receivers we collect and enjoy have no modern equivalent, separates yes but true high powered 2 channel receivers no. Therein lies the rub. Even after careful restoration you are still working with 40 year old units. A direct example would be your 9090. Once restored, fuse resistors replaced along with several other upgrades should be a solid daily driver for years to come.
    The SX1980 really needs the updated power supply board to make it reliable, or at least a fan behind it moving the heat away from the chassis to prevent meltdown and potential output transistor damage.
    Once you start to factor in shipping, restoration and time; owning one of the rare pieces becomes much more difficult to justify. On the other hand having one even if not restored drives the market pretty significantly at the moment unlike 10-15 years ago when folks were busy throwing them out with the trash.
    As a side note I do have my share of separates (tuner/pre/power amp) combo's but always seem to have the big receivers in rotation instead, if a G22 or 33k fell into my lap I certainly would not turn it down :)
    -Lee
     
    Hyperion likes this.
  11. w1jim

    w1jim I can fix it but good... Subscriber

    Messages:
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    My trick with the SX1980 was to relocate those hot power supply transistors onto the bottom of the large output transistor heat sinks.
     
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  12. kevzep

    kevzep Its all about the Music

    Should have kept the G8000 and disconnected the stupid current protection, which is as sensitive as a Father watching his 16 year old daughter going out on her first date!!

    If you don't work on your gear, or at least accept you'll have to send it will need a bit of maintenance from time to time, then perhaps vintage isn't your bag?
    I get where you are coming from, after all its easy for me, I have the my Lab, and working on electronics is my thing...
    My G22000 is very reliable, however, I know what I have to do to keep it reliable, and in fact I need to do all the lever switches, they need dismantling and cleaning, theres a good 3 hrs right there, a lot of people wouldn't want to pay a tech to do that...
    Its an investment and a commitment..
     
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  13. w1jim

    w1jim I can fix it but good... Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Reality check - vintage audio deal can be an incredible bargain if you can fix it yourself.
    Otherwise, not so much.
     
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  14. centsless

    centsless Super Member

    Messages:
    1,078
    Location:
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    (If you don't work on your gear, or at least accept you'll have to send it will need a bit of maintenance from time to time, then perhaps vintage isn't your bag?)

    I walked into a stereo shop in 1976 at 19 yrs old and came out with a Sansui 9090 and still have it set up...so vintage isn't my game. Your flippant remark doesn't fly and you know nothing about me. My G-8000 was recapped by a Sansui expert here on the forum and apparently didn't think as you. The receivers of that era just can't produce with 4 ohm speakers. I had a Marantz 2325 and a Sansui 9090 DB that also shut down when played the same as the 8000....and are all gone. The 2205 fills the void nicely and can dip to 2 ohm. Will the 1980 handle the 4 ohm.....I don't know...I won't test it!....lol...so it stays with the HPM-150's and pounds nicely.

    The reason for all the questions is I know little so I inquire....but the allure of the 22000 was strong....especially after Matt found one and loves it. My quandary with repairs is the long lead time. I have waited for over a year on some stuff and anyone good has a long list of repairs and work. I guess it may come to me getting away from the old audio when the hassles of owning are not worth the time.
     
  15. kevzep

    kevzep Its all about the Music

    Wow, okay, whatever dude, I'll stop trying to help you, I have better things to do than get abused by people here when I donate my own time to give technical information to help people.
    We are not saving lives here, take a chill pill.
     
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  16. w1jim

    w1jim I can fix it but good... Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Dude, “All audio, no attitude”.
     
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  17. mattsd

    mattsd AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Question for those with a 22000 or 33000, has anyone come up with a way to fix or replace the locking collar for the preamp cable? I just realized it is supposed to have a locking collar, but the one I have does not. It works as it is just fine, but the extra security to make sure it doesn't come loose would be nice.
     
  18. kevzep

    kevzep Its all about the Music

    Well, that would be the last thing you'd want happening, that umbilical slipping out.

    They are not a very robust plug, I have seen one on eBay where someone replaced it with a D-SUB connector, it didn't look very good, but there are any number of other options for multipin connectors which could be used.

    I'd look at amphenol or Veam, they have a huge range of circular connectors, digikey or mouser should sell them, I'll eventually replace mine, I just don't like the flimsy plastic, I'll get metal casings on the new ones.
     
  19. mattsd

    mattsd AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,615
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Something like this and this maybe? Appears to be very similar to the original. I'll need to check the diameter of the socket that goes in the power amp, but I think it might fit without modification. The plug itself has the same length and diameter as the original.
     
  20. kevzep

    kevzep Its all about the Music

    Nice work, that looks like a good solution!!
     

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