Fire in Rhode Island club

Shain

Super Member
Don't want to get too serious here, but that Rhode Island club that went up in flames, is absolutely scary.
(and the Chicago club deal)

If you haven't watched the video tape taken just as the fire started, ....it is unreal. Three minutes and it's an inferno.
(A reporter from a TV station just happened to be there making a report on crowded clubs, because of the Chicago fiasco)

I can't believe they used pyrotechnic crap INSIDE the building. CRAZY!

It kind of looked like the building was wood framed but, not sure. They're highly flamable.

Apparently they think there was some kind of foam sound insulation on the stage walls.
That stuff is highly flamable, and puts off heavy toxic smoke when ignited.

As you guys probably know, I design and build commercial, industrial, and other business buildings.

I have thought for along time that ALL commercial buildings should by fire sprinklered.
Most building codes don't require them, for appliations in smaller buildings.

Latest count I heard was 30 some deaths.
 
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I just heard about it on the radio. They said 60 deaths and climbing as more bodies are discovered. What a terrible and preventable loss of life.

Rob
 
Same thing happen here in Minneapolis at the Fine Line Music Cafe. A band used pryo techinc display and caught the ceiling on fire. Everybody got out alive but last word was 1 million in damage. Because of the Chicago incident, the club had a staff meeting the morning before to discuss their escape plans.

g
 
Sorry, but I just can't believe anyone is DUMB enough to light up
pyrotechnic stuff INSIDE a building. :confused:

You just as well light up a flame thrower !! STUPID!
 
I think count is now around 95 dead. I can't believe the fire dept doesn't check this stuff out before hand. Don't you need some kind of permit for pyrotechnics?
 
Any fire deptartment is dead set against using pyrotechnics inside.
There was no permit taken out in RI, and the fire cheif there said it would have been denied anyway. The fire dept didn't get the chance to stop it.

I work with fire inspectors, doing inspections of my new buildings, and they are more conscious of potential problems, than ever,
since 9-11.
Almost all my buildings are concrete, steel, and alot more flame resistent. We don't use much wood at all. Maybe cabinets, but thats about it.

It turns out the RI building was wood frame construction, as I suspected, by watching it burn....... so it did go up in flames quickly, because of the wood construction.

I don't know if you recall the MGM Grand hotel fire (Las Vegas)about 20 years ago. A lot were killed there too.
The NFPA (fire) regulations changed because of it, adding full fire sprinkler systems to hotels, and other similar occupancies.

I would suspect the regs will change again, and even more buildings will be required to have sprinklers.

It sure looks like the band did the pyro thing, without even letting the club owners know. More investigation will dig out the truth eventually.
 
The story I read said the band asked the Club owner if they had a permit for pyro. He told them yes. last I heard no one could find this club owner..

Grumpy
 
You may have already seen the club owner on TV today (Sat.), the guy broke down a couple of times, .....but anyway, he very emphaticaly stated that he didn't know pyros were going to be used.

There were a couple of other club owners on TV also that said the band did the same thing (recently) to them also. (shot them off without asking first)

Another club owner from, I think NJ, about a week or two ago, made them stop the show, when the band started the pyro stuff. (Didn't ask the club owner first)

One of the cable channels had a copy of the bands standard appearance contract, and there's nothing in it about using pyrotechnics.
 
One of the cable channels had a copy of the bands standard appearance contract, and there's nothing in it about using pyrotechnics.
The video and news reports I saw said that the tour management people had told the band and crew that all the arrangements had been made with regard to inspections and permission. Indoor pyrotechnics shows can be done safely, however, highly trained professional technicians and thorough inspection of the venue are a must.
 
Here's part of an artical about the foam insulation that may have been used on the walls of the stage.
My first post mentioned the stuff as possibly being part of the reason it spread so fast, as well as the toxic smoke emitted.

Codes require foam insul. to be covered with a "termal barrier", meaning it is covered with a metal sheet, or fire resistant drywall, etc., or other approved thermal barrier material.

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 (AP)

PROVIDENCE, R.I. — Forensic experts have identified 78 of the 97 people who died as they tried to escape a raging nightclub fire, the governor said. Meanwhile, investigators were focusing in part on the soundproofing material that burst into flames, and trying to determine if the panels were made of a highly flammable polyurethane foam.

At a news conference late Monday, Gov. Don Carcieri said he expected the bodies of the other 19 victims to be identified but warned it could take longer and require DNA samples.

Investigators in the West Warwick nightclub tragedy were awaiting a lab analysis to determine exactly what the soundproofing tiles were made of. State law bars flammable acoustic material from the walls of gathering spaces such as bars and clubs.

"If it was (polyurethane), then the governor's going to want an answer to the question, 'Why was it there?"' the governor's spokesman, Jeff Neal, said Monday.

As they worked, thousands of people turned out to mourn the victims who died in the inferno last Thursday at The Station.

The fire began last Thursday during the first song of the night by the band Great White. Pyrotechnics apparently set fire to soundproofing behind and above the stage, sending flames ripping through the club in minutes.

The band has said it had permission to use the special effects, a claim disputed by the club's owners.

Some soundproofing experts who have seen television video of the disaster said that because the building was quickly engulfed by flames and awash in black smoke, they believe the material used at The Station was polyurethane foam -- a commonly used, inexpensive alternative to fire-resistant panels many experts prefer.

"It's a common mistake many people make, not evaluating their materials," said P.J. Nash, a national soundproofing distributor based in San Diego, Calif. "Polyurethane foam is extremely flammable, and if you breath that smoke, it's going to knock you out in a minute."

A polyurethane panel typically costs about $150 while a melamine panel, which experts say withstands heat and is tested for fire resistance, sells for nearly $250.

The club passed a fire inspection Dec. 31, but it wasn't clear if the soundproofing material was checked or would normally be during a routine inspection. West Warwick Fire Chief Charles Hall declined comment on the investigation.

State Attorney General Patrick Lynch wouldn't comment Monday on whether the material had been identified but said: "It's certainly one of the elements we're looking at."
 
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"It's a common mistake many people make, not evaluating their materials," said P.J. Nash, a national soundproofing distributor based in San Diego, Calif. "Polyurethane foam is extremely flammable, and if you breath that smoke, it's going to knock you out in a minute."

A polyurethane panel typically costs about $150 while a melamine panel, which experts say withstands heat and is tested for fire resistance, sells for nearly $250.

The club passed a fire inspection Dec. 31, but it wasn't clear if the soundproofing material was checked or would normally be during a routine inspection. West Warwick Fire Chief Charles Hall declined comment on the investigation.

State Attorney General Patrick Lynch wouldn't comment Monday on whether the material had been identified but said: "It's certainly one of the elements we're looking at."

A story that I read about the tragedy stated that the soundproofing panels were not present at the time of the recent inspection. If that statement is in fact true and the material was polyurethane, the question becomes one of whether the panels were installed after the inspection or had previously been installed, been removed prior to the inspection, and were then re-installed after the inspection. It is my opinion (and only my opinion ) that this might possibly explain why club co-owner Mike Dederian is not considered very cooperative by officials and has declined comment. We'll know the truth after the investigation has been completed and the findings are announced to the public.
 
More stuff , .....more .....yes I did...no you didn't.
But there's no reason for the other clubs owners to lie.
______________________________________

NEW YORK (Fox) — Operators of several venues around the country, including a Rhode Island nightclub where scores of people died in a fire, said Friday that the band Great White did not tell them ahead of time they would use pyrotechnics in their show.

"At no time, did either owner have prior knowledge that pyrotechnics were going to be used by the band Great White," said a statement issued on behalf of the owners of The Station in West Warwick, R.I., where Thursday night's fire occurred. "No permission was ever requested by the band or its agents to use pyrotechnics at The Station, and no permission was ever given."

Video footage of the concert captured the ceiling of the club igniting immediately above the pyrotechnic displays on the stage.

Domenic Santana, owner of the Stone Pony in Asbury Park, N.J., the storied club associated with Bruce Springsteen, said no notice was given when Great White used pyrotechnics for a Valentine's Day show before 260 patrons.

Pyrotechnics are not allowed at the Stone Pony because of its low ceiling.

"It could have been the St. Valentine's Day massacre," Santana said.

At least three other Great White shows this month -- on Feb. 7 in Florida, Feb. 13 in Allentown, Pa., and on Tuesday in Maine -- apparently included the use of pyrotechnics without notice.

Jack Russell, Great White's leader, said the band's manager had informed officials at The Station pyrotechnics would be used. And Paul Woolnough, president of the group's management company, Manic Music Management and Knight Records, denied the band had failed to notify venues pyrotechnics were used.

"The tour manager always checks that (pyrotechnics are) able to be used, and that the club authorizes it," Woolnough said. "If there's any issue at all, then it's never used."

He said he did not have specific knowledge about individual shows.

Two nights before the catastrophic fire, Great White played in Bangor, Maine, and used pyrotechnics without seeking permission, according to a lawyer for the venue's owner. Also, the necessary state permit was not obtained, according to a spokesman for the Department of Public Safety.

At the Pinellas Park Expo Center near Tampa, Fla., where Great White played Feb. 7, the band also used pyrotechnics without notice to anyone involved in the concert, said Tim Bryant, a show organizer.

"It was a pretty hard shock to me," said Bryan, who added that a permit by local authorities is required. "Pyro makes for a really good show, and we would have gotten the permit."

At a performance in Glendale Heights, Ill., the band brought pyrotechnics with them even after being told they were not allowed, said Terri Barr, manager of the Shark City club.

"They said they used pyrotechnics in other places and it's fun and they've used it before and it would add to the show," Barr said. She said she told the band's management again that such displays were not allowed, and that pyrotechnics were not used during the show.

The Rhode Island show, which attracted about 300 patrons, was part of a tour that began in January. Not all the shows featured pyrotechnics, and some club owners said the band complied when asked not to use the effects.

At the Oxygen Club in Evansville, Ind., where Great White played Feb. 3, owner JJ Parson said the band asked if they could use small "flashpots."

"We said we'd prefer they not, and they went along," Parson said. "Everything we'd asked them to do, they'd do. They're really easy to get along with."

Great White used pyrotechnics briefly without incident at a show in Sioux City, Iowa, on Jan. 27, before a sparse crowd at the Lewis Bowl & Sports Bar. Owner Dan Lewis said he could not recall whether the band sought permission.

"They did a little thing at the very end. It was very calm. We weren't very full that night. It was no big deal," Lewis said.
 
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