Fisher 202 Futura Series receiver question

Discussion in 'Fisher' started by Tube Radio, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. Tube Radio

    Tube Radio Super Member

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  2. mrphilco

    mrphilco AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Ferdinand, IN
    Yes, they will work fine.

    I used blue 31mm LED fuse lamps in my 202 Futura, and they really make that dial "pop". What a difference...like night and day.
     
  3. Tube Radio

    Tube Radio Super Member

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    3,300
    Awesome.

    Will I need to run those on 8 volts or will 6.3 volts be ok?

    I originally used three green LEDs for the tuning meter as I didn't like the white and built a small voltage doubler circuit to power them with.

    I took that circuit and rebuilt it using 220uF caps and put heat shrink around the circuit so it could be set near where the output transistors are.

    Concerning the other 6 indicator bulbs, will warm white LEDs work for them?

    If I do need 8 volts for the LED fuse lamps I can use a 7809 with that doubler circuit then add a resistor in series.

    The bulbs currently in there are 6.3Vac 150mA, but I don't know if they are original.

    Here's how the receiver currently looks lit up, although the camera I used made the shades of the colors a good bit lighter.

    The dial pointer was made orange using a small piece of plastic from a neon indicator light that came from a defunct record player.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017 at 3:10 PM
  4. mrphilco

    mrphilco AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Ferdinand, IN
    Those 8 volt LEDs will run very happily on 6.3 volts. The reverse is not true (don't ask how I know).

    As to warm white vs. blue, I think that comes down to user preference. It looks like Fisher was aiming for a blue dial, but incandescent lamps don't quite convey a pure blue dial. Blue LEDs provide a pure blue (and bright) display, making the numbers very easy to read. I did not try warm white LEDs in my 202, but I'm sure they would be just fine as well. Either will be brighter than the stock incandescents and will make the numbers easier to read.

    Interesting mod you made, changing the color of the tuning meter to green. It's different. I like it. I used bright white LEDs for mine. In fact I replaced all of the grain of wheat indicator lamps with 3mm LEDs; red for all except the tuning meter which, as I mentioned, are warm white.

    The 202 Futura is not a very powerful receiver, but that dial certainly looks good with LEDs!
     
  5. gadget73

    gadget73 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    29,513
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Incandescent lamps through a blue filter usually comes out with a greenish color. The stock dash illumination on my Lincoln used that setup. Cool white LED gives a distinct blue color, blue LED gives an obnoxious blue. Warm white LED gives the stock greenish color but much brighter.
     
  6. Tube Radio

    Tube Radio Super Member

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    3,300
    I've seen that effect using those blue bulb covers commonly used kin pinball machines. Produced a nice blue/green color when used with the edge lit dial of a Browning RV-32 FM tuner and the dial of my Magnavox CR-198C console.

    The dial of the 202 is a nice deep blue.

    I've seen pictures of the blue LEDs and never did like the look, but the cameras used could have made the shade of blue lighter than it really is in person. That said I've seen other blue LEDs in person and never quite liked the shade of blue used.

    Figured it was best to go with something that lit up similar to incandescent bulbs to keep the same look.

    The Fisher indeed isn't powerful at only 25 WPC, but it can go quite loud with efficient speakers.

    More than likely what I will do is replace the indicator lamps with warm white LEDs and connect two in series then use a resistor to make them about as bright as the other indicator lamps.

    What surprises me is this.

    The current of the three green LEDs in series is 420uA, yet they are bright. From what I remember these came from a christmas light set and most likely are 5 volt LEDs. At first I thought I had calculated wrong, but that is indeed the current.

    I used a simple voltage doubler to power them.

    Voltage doubler.png

    Figure on using that circuit to power all the lights once they are all LED and I can insert it between the power transformer and switch wafer that switches the various lights along with a 7809 regulator.

    I can then use resistors in series with the LEDs to get them at the proper brightness.

    That said it may be possible to use resistors and dispense with the regulator completely.

    The ground goes to one side of the lamp winding on the transformer. Suppose that winding wasn't grounded to reduce the chance of hum.
     
  7. Tube Radio

    Tube Radio Super Member

    Messages:
    3,300
    An update.

    Got the led lamps installed and they are bright enough on 6.3Vac.

    There is a problem though.

    The color of the dial changed from the blue it was to a more blue shade of blue.

    The current shade of blue looks like it is more of a whitish shade of blue or like it has some white in it.

    The original shade looked like it had a slight bit of green to it which made it more of a blue greenish color closer to blue.

    Not sure I exactly like the different color of the dial scale.

    That concerns me as I am afraid warm white LEDs for the other indicator lamps may alter their colors as well.

    I did remove the lamp holder panel for the dial lamps and used two LEDs and two incandescents and found the LEDs are more of a yellowish white color leaning more towards white, whereas the incandescents are more of a yellowish/orangish whitish color leaning more towards yellow/orange.
     
  8. gadget73

    gadget73 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    29,513
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Probably a cooler white LED than the original bulb was. I had to use 2700K lamps to get stock coloring on the Lincoln. The add-on gauges I have used different base bulbs, and all I could get there were 3000K. Blue filters gave blue light, I needed green filters to get close to the stock green color. The dash bulbs with the blue filter give the proper greenish light. The higher the color temperature number, the more blue looking the light will end up.
     
  9. Tube Radio

    Tube Radio Super Member

    Messages:
    3,300
    Could it be that the 8 volt fuse lamps were brighter than the 6.3 volt fuse lamps which would make them more of a white color?

    The receiver does have a 2 amp fuse for all the indicator lamps so I wonder if 250mA fuse lamps were what was originally used?

    If this did use 250mA fuse lamps, could the 150mA lamps not being as bright have altered the shade of the dial scale?

    That would have made the dial brighter than what it was. Perhaps a previous owner could only get 150mA fuse lamps as I'm pretty sure the original lamps would not have lasted this long looking like they haven't seen much use unless the receiver sat for years unused.

    Would the cool blue version have been any better at keeping the original shade of blue?

    Only thing the specs don't say is the color temperature of the warm white LEDs
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017 at 5:53 PM
  10. gadget73

    gadget73 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    29,513
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Without knowing what the original shade of blue was, its hard to say if cool white would do it. I can only speak from my experiences with car lighting, and I can tell you that cool white through a blue filter has a very distinct blue tint. If you want it more green, then cool white isn't going to do it. Incandescent lamps tend to be extremely warm on the color temp scale, somewhere around 2500K depending on input voltage and other particulars.

    Not impossible that the bulbs are original. One of the ones in my Fisher 600 is original, the other is an original used bulb from my parts unit. They're both over 50 years old.
     
  11. Tube Radio

    Tube Radio Super Member

    Messages:
    3,300
    I want to say the dial looked like this originally or real close to that. Best I could do with the photo app in Windows 10.

    Dial.png


    That said I seem to remember perhaps the dial of the 202 I had in my teens being a little brighter and more blue which might have been possible if 250mA bulbs were originally specified.

    Maybe I could get some green filter material and try it in front of the LEDs.

    The Fisher part number for the dial lamps is LM4031-2760051

    This picture is kind of blurry, but it shows how I remember the one I had as a teenager looking.

    [​IMG]

    From https://www.pinterest.com/pin/161707442840629470/

    It looks a bit brighter than the one I have now was.


    EDIT:

    Used the receiver at work a lot today and the more I look at the dial the more I realize that color blue is what I remembered the one I had as a teenager looking like only the LEDs seem to make the blue look more like it has a little white in it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017 at 8:41 PM

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