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Fisher 400 - Early Model - EFB and IBBA Parts List or BOM?

Discussion in 'Fisher' started by TravAndAlex, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. TravAndAlex

    TravAndAlex Active Member

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Hi All. I've been scouring the forums trying to learn as much as possible about the addition of Dave G's EFB and IBBA for the Fisher 400. Just wondering if I can save myself some work, and ask if anyone who has done those modifications has a Parts List or BOM that they are willing to share?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. TravAndAlex

    TravAndAlex Active Member

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Based on another thread, how does this look for the IBBA? Missing anything?

    Mouser #: 652-3362P-1-103LF
    Mfr. #: 3362P-1-103LF
    Mfr.: Bourns
    Trimmer Resistors - Through Hole 1/4"SQ 10KOHMS 10% 0.5WATTS
    4 Ships Now
    $1.44
    $5.76


    Mouser #: 647-USV1V100MFD
    Mfr. #: USV1V100MFD
    Mfr.: Nichicon
    Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 35volts 10uF 5x7 20% 2LS
    4 Ships Now
    $0.592
    $2.37


    Mouser #: 660-CF1/4CT52R153J
    Mfr. #: CF1/4CT52R153J
    Mfr.: KOA Speer
    Carbon Film Resistors - Through Hole 15K ohm 5%
    4 Ships Now
    $0.212
    $0.85


    Mouser #: 660-CF1/4CT52R103J
    Mfr. #: CF1/4CT52R103J
    Mfr.: KOA Speer
    Carbon Film Resistors - Through Hole 10K ohm 5%
    4 Ships Now
    $0.212
    $0.85


    Mouser #: 589-7100-45
    Mfr. #: 7100-45
    Mfr.: Twin Industries
    PCBs & Breadboards .1" Grid .042" Holes 4.0"X 5.0"; FR4
    1 Ships Now
    $6.60
    $6.60


    Mouser #: 660-CF1/4CT52R223J
    Mfr. #: CF1/4CT52R223J
    Mfr.: KOA Speer
    Carbon Film Resistors - Through Hole 22K ohm 5%
    4 Ships Now
    $0.212
    $0.85
     
  3. Dave451

    Dave451 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    578
    Location:
    Philly area
    That looks good for the IBBA. Here's are the two key components for the EFB (MOSFET and the two transistors)--the other components are caps, some diodes, and resistors:



    512-KSA1013OBU
    MFG Part No:KSA1013OBU
    KSA1013OBU
    Fairchild Bipolar Transistors - BJT
    US HTS:8541210095 ECCN:EAR99 COO:KR 4 4


    511-STF11N50M2
    MFG Part No:STF11N50M2
    STF11N50M2
    STMicro MOSFET
    US HTS:8541290095 ECCN:EAR99 COO:CN 2 2
    Dave
     
    TravAndAlex likes this.
  4. TravAndAlex

    TravAndAlex Active Member

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada

    Thanks Dave! I've just got to figure out what those other components are! Going through the other threads to see if I can work it out for my 400. Trying to save on shipping and do it all in a single order.

    To be honest, this is much deeper water than I'm used to swimming in... I've been in the shallow end with my soldering iron up to now. :p So I greatly appreciate any help (or spoonfeeding as appropriate). :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  5. njcanuck

    njcanuck aka: MacGyver Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,972
    Location:
    Cape Coral, Florida
    eduarsan1 and TravAndAlex like this.
  6. TravAndAlex

    TravAndAlex Active Member

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Ok. Here goes. I'm really just learning how to read schematics, so I'd appreciate any assistance in double checking this list against the picture of Dave G's schematic.

    A couple of initial questions:

    Are 1/2 W resistors sufficient unless otherwise indicated on the schematic?
    Are all capacitors values in micro farads? (uF)
    The schematic is for the late model Fisher 400, what if anything needs to be adjusted for the early model?


    Universal EFB.jpg


    Mouser #: 512-KSA1013OBU
    Mfr. #: KSA1013OBU
    Mfr.: Fairchild Semiconductor
    Bipolar Transistors - BJT PNP Epitaxial Sil
    2 Ships Now
    $0.522
    $1.04


    Mouser #: 511-STF11N50M2
    Mfr. #: STF11N50M2
    Mfr.: STMicroelectronics
    MOSFET POWER MOSFET
    1 Ships Now
    $2.48
    $2.48


    Mouser #: 594-5083NW2K200J
    Mfr. #: PR02000202201JR500
    Mfr.: Vishay
    Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 2watts 2.2Kohms 5%
    1 Ships Now
    $0.479
    $0.48


    Mouser #: 273-22K-RC
    Mfr. #: 273-22K-RC
    Mfr.: Xicon
    Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 22Kohms 1% 50PPM
    1 Ships Now
    $0.31
    $0.31


    Mouser #: 273-39K-RC
    Mfr. #: 273-39K-RC
    Mfr.: Xicon
    Customer #:
    Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 39Kohms 1% 50PPM
    1 Ships Now
    $0.31
    $0.31


    Mouser #: 273-1.0M-RC
    Mfr. #: 273-1.0M-RC
    Mfr.: Xicon
    Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 1.0Mohms 1% 50PPM
    1 Ships Now
    $0.31
    $0.31


    Mouser #: 273-100K-RC
    Mfr. #: 273-100K-RC
    Mfr.: Xicon
    Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 100Kohms 1% 50PPM
    1 Ships Now
    $0.31
    $0.31


    Mouser #: 594-5073NW270K0J
    Mfr. #: PR01000102703JR500
    Mfr.: Vishay
    Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 1watt 270Kohms 5%
    1 Ships Now
    $0.254
    $0.25


    Mouser #: 71-CCF02-F-909
    Mfr. #: CCF02909RFKR36
    Mfr.: Vishay
    Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 2watts 909ohms 1%
    -->NOTE: 2 to be wired in series for the 1.8k 4W
    2 Ships Now
    $1.16
    $2.32


    Mouser #: 273-10K-RC
    Mfr. #: 273-10K-RC
    Mfr.: Xicon
    Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 10Kohms 1% 50PPM
    1 Ships Now
    $0.31
    $0.31


    Mouser #: 80-PHE450PF6470JF13
    Mfr. #: PHE450PF6470JF13R06L2
    Mfr.: Kemet
    Film Capacitors .47uF 1000V 5%
    1 Ships Now
    $3.47
    $3.47


    Mouser #: 647-UVR2W220MHD
    Mfr. #: UVR2W220MHD
    Mfr.: Nichicon
    Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 450volts 22uF 16x25 20% 7.5LS
    1 Ships Now
    $1.45
    $1.45


    Mouser #: 594-2222-368-25224
    Mfr. #: BFC236825224
    Mfr.: Vishay
    Film Capacitors .22UF 10% 100volts
    1 Ships Now
    $1.16
    $1.16


    Mouser #: 505-MKS2C044701M00KS
    Mfr. #: MKS2C044701M00KSSD
    Mfr.: WIMA
    Film Capacitors 4.7 uF 63 VDC 10%
    1 Ships Now
    $1.30
    $1.30


    Mouser #: 512-1N4007
    Mfr. #: 1N4007
    Mfr.: Fairchild Semiconductor
    Rectifiers 1000V GEN PUR RPLMNT P/N 863-1N4007RLG
    4 Ships Now
    $0.226
    $0.90


    Mouser #: 75-TVA1414-E3
    Mfr. #: TVA1414-E3
    Mfr.: Vishay
    Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 50uF 150volts
    1 Ships Now
    $7.56
    $7.56


    Mouser #: 652-3362P-1-103LF
    Mfr. #: 3362P-1-103LF
    Mfr.: Bourns
    Trimmer Resistors - Through Hole 1/4"SQ 10KOHMS 10% 0.5WATTS
    1 Ships Now
    $1.44


    Mouser #: 589-7100-45
    Mfr. #: 7100-45
    Mfr.: Twin Industries
    PCBs & Breadboards .1" Grid .042" Holes 4.0"X 5.0"; FR4
    RoHS Compliant
    QuickView
    1 Ships Now
    $6.60
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  7. TravAndAlex

    TravAndAlex Active Member

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Dave G was good enough to email me and clear up a few of my mistakes and give me some new values for the early model 400 (his original circuits are for the late model 400). For anyone who may find this useful, here's the details of my order:


    FISHER 400 EARLY MODEL - IBBA AND EFB
    Mouser # Mfr. # Manufacturer Description Order Qty. Price (CAD) Ext.: (CAD)
    652-3362P-1-103LF 3362P-1-103LF Bourns Trimmer Resistors - Through Hole 1/4"SQ 10KOHMS 10% 0.5WATTS 3 $1.44 $4.32
    647-USV1V100MFD USV1V100MFD Nichicon Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 35volts 10uF 5x7 20% 2LS 4 $0.592 $2.37
    660-CF1/4CT52R153J CF1/4CT52R153J KOA Speer Carbon Film Resistors - Through Hole 15K ohm 5% 4 $0.212 $0.85
    660-CF1/4CT52R103J CF1/4CT52R103J KOA Speer Carbon Film Resistors - Through Hole 10K ohm 5% 4 $0.212 $0.85
    589-7100-45 7100-45 Twin Industries PCBs & Breadboards .1" Grid .042" Holes 4.0"X 5.0"; FR4 2 $6.60 $13.20
    660-CF1/4CT52R223J CF1/4CT52R223J KOA Speer Carbon Film Resistors - Through Hole 22K ohm 5% 4 $0.212 $0.85
    271-18.7K-RC 271-18.7K-RC Xicon Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 18.7Kohms 1% 50PPM 2 $0.24 $0.48
    506-A101SYCQ04 A101SYCQ04 TE Connectivity Toggle Switches ON-ON SPDT Bat Long 1 $3.96 $3.96
    512-KSA1013OBU KSA1013OBU Fairchild Semiconductor Bipolar Transistors - BJT PNP Epitaxial Sil 2 $0.522 $1.04
    511-STF11N50M2 STF11N50M2 STMicroelectronics MOSFET POWER MOSFET 1 $2.48 $2.48
    594-5083NW2K200J PR02000202201JR500 Vishay Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 2watts 2.2Kohms 5% 1 $0.479 $0.48
    273-22K-RC 273-22K-RC Xicon Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 22Kohms 1% 50PPM 1 $0.31 $0.31
    273-39K-RC 273-39K-RC Xicon Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 39Kohms 1% 50PPM 1 $0.31 $0.31
    273-1.0M-RC 273-1.0M-RC Xicon Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 1.0Mohms 1% 50PPM 1 $0.31 $0.31
    273-100K-RC 273-100K-RC Xicon Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 100Kohms 1% 50PPM 5 $0.31 $1.55
    594-5073NW270K0J PR01000102703JR500 Vishay Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 1watt 270Kohms 5% 1 $0.254 $0.25
    273-10K-RC 273-10K-RC Xicon Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 10Kohms 1% 50PPM 1 $0.31 $0.31
    80-PHE450PF6470JF13 PHE450PF6470JF13R06L2 Kemet Film Capacitors .47uF 1000V 5% 1 $3.47 $3.47
    647-UVR2W220MHD UVR2W220MHD Nichicon Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 450volts 22uF 16x25 20% 7.5LS 1 $1.45 $1.45
    594-2222-368-25224 BFC236825224 Vishay Film Capacitors .22UF 10% 100volts 1 $1.16 $1.16
    505-MKS2C044701M00KS MKS2C044701M00KSSD WIMA Film Capacitors 4.7 uF 63 VDC 10% 1 $1.30 $1.30
    512-1N4007 1N4007 Fairchild Semiconductor Rectifiers 1000V GEN PUR RPLMNT P/N 863-1N4007RLG 4 $0.226 $0.90
    75-TVA1414-E3 TVA1414-E3 Vishay Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 50uF 150volts 1 $7.56 $7.56
    660-MF1/2DCT52R5602D MF1/2DCT52R5602D KOA Speer Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 1/2 WATT 56K OHM .5% 1 $0.888 $0.89
    294-130K-RC 294-130K-RC Xicon Carbon Film Resistors - Through Hole 130Kohms 5% 2 $0.324 $0.65
    294-10K-RC 294-10K-RC Xicon Carbon Film Resistors - Through Hole 10Kohms 0.05 1 $0.324 $0.32
    71-ROX1-F-1K ROX1001K00FKLB Vishay Metal Oxide Resistors 4watt 1Kohm 1% 100ppm 1 $5.89 $5.89
     
  8. eduarsan1

    eduarsan1 Luis Eduardo Sanchez Subscriber

    Messages:
    598
    Location:
    Bogotá, Colombia
    For your 400 ealier model what components are different with the late model?
     
    TravAndAlex likes this.
  9. Dave451

    Dave451 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    578
    Location:
    Philly area
    Hi, Luis. I'll jump in, owning a late-model 400. The late models have high impedance output transformers (10.5K primaries) and the NFB components are accordingly different (the R/C components--caps and resistors in the feedback network). Those are the main ones, and I don't recall others. Other's may weigh in on this. The different OPT's limit the power to about 23-24WRMS per channel.
    Dave
     
  10. eduarsan1

    eduarsan1 Luis Eduardo Sanchez Subscriber

    Messages:
    598
    Location:
    Bogotá, Colombia
    Hello Dave

    Sorry for the misunderstanding, I'm asking is regarding the efb, because as you mentioned the OPT are different and also the feedback network coming from the 16 ohm and other stuff, just curious due to I have also a 400 earlier model where I would like to do as made in my 400 late model.
    Regards.

    Luis.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  11. Dave451

    Dave451 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    578
    Location:
    Philly area
    I'm sorry, Luis--my mistake. As far as differences in the EFB, I can't answer. The posts above hint that there are a couple of differences, but TravAndAlex would need to let you know.
    Dave
     
  12. TravAndAlex

    TravAndAlex Active Member

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Sorry for the late reply. Missed your question. Here's what Dave G sent me:


    Hi Trav — You’ve got a number of component value errors, because as I had previously mentioned, the published EFB values were based on the LATE model 400, not the early model, which operates the output stage quite differently.


    I have not done any actual development work with the EFB circuit for the early model 400s, but some quick napkin type calculations gave me this, which should get you if not in the ball park, very close to it. Unless other wise specifically mentioned, the parts are fine except for the following:


    A. Within the EFB circuits:


    1. The 39K resistor becomes 56K of same type and wattage.


    2. The 100K resistor becomes 39K of same type and wattage.


    3. The 270K resistor remains the same value, be becomes upgraded to a 2 watt rating.


    4. The 1.8K resistor becomes a 1K of the same type and wattage.


    5. If you are using the IBBA bias adjusting circuit after the EFB control grid regulator, then the 10K resistor and 4.7uF cap can be omitted.



    B. Within the IBBA circuits:


    1. Only 2 10K resistors are required, where as you are showing 4.


    2. What are the 22K resistors for?


    Also, the unit will need to have 10 Ohm .5 watt resistors installed at each pin 5 of the output tubes, so if those are not currently installed, then you will need to order those as well.


    You should also strongly consider adding 100 Ohm .5 watt Screen Stability resistors to the output tubes (one per tube socket) as well (if not already done). These are not shown with the late version modified schematic that I provided, because the way that the late version output stage operates, they are not needed. However, with in the early version units, they are strongly recommended.


    These changes should get you very close, if not at your goal. At best, only a slight tweak or two may be needed once you get your project up and operational. Good luck with it!



    I still haven't tackled this project yet. Please let me know if you can share the details! I ordered the parts, but haven't found the time to try it yet.
     

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