Fisher 400 owners PLEASE READ....IMPORTANT!!!!

Discussion in 'Fisher' started by larryderouin, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

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    I was going thru my 400 folders on my computer and found a (most likely forgotten ) version of the 400 manual with a serial of 30000 and up. Upon deeper looking I noticed that it showed that the unit had 6 RF tubes and "AX" opt's. I thought this ain't right , and looked at the pictures of the 40 I bought back in 2011 from Audiodon. Sure Enough it had SERIAL # 32932, and had 5 tubes, and "A" opt's. As far as I'm concerned this manual is a BUST! (See below for Rant).

    Not having original manuals to verify this info, I'm presuming that there is some reasonable doubt as to the veracity of the info as back pages could have been mixed. But this is the best I've got so I'll go with it.

    400 MANUAL's for.........................................Production code on back page
    10001-19999 .............................................. N-1020-103 1963 F.R.C.
    20001-29999 .............................................. N-1020-103BXA 1964F.R.C.
    20000 and up .............................................. N-1020-103BXA 1964 F.R.C.
    30000 and up............................................... N-1020-103AXA 1964 F.R.C.
    48001 and up............................................... N-1020-103CX No date....After 1964 presumed

    Looks like the (Engineering) Drafting Dept Screwed the big one again. I get the impression the same guy who was responsible for the 800c manuals was also responsible for the 400 manuals. He must have been dead at the wheel when it came to doing revisions.

    I think what we have here is a classic case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. If you look at the production code number for the manuals it gets even more cornfusing. Both of the 20000 versions are younger than the 30000 version??????? Yeah Right!!

    RANT OFF

    Of the 5 manuals listed above 3 deal with the Early model and 2 supposedly deal with the LATE. I say supposedly as my 1st 400 was an EARLY MODEL (5 tubes for tuner and "A" version outputs) and it's SERIAL # was 32932. According to the to the manuals it should have been a late model with 6 tubes in the RF Section and with AX output transformers.

    Honestly right now, with all the confusion with the manuals, I'd cull out two of them and just run with 3. Cull out the 20001-29999 and the 30000 and up. Reason being as these are identical to the 20000 and up and 48001 and up manuals. But the units don't match up with the manuals as is right now between 30000 and 48000. Culling these two manuals eventually will set the demarcation line straight..

    I would still make the Demarcation of EARLY/ LATE models at based on the 400's I've had thru here in the last 4 years;

    10001-47999 is EARLY Version (5 RF Tubes and "A" OPT's)

    48001 and up is LATE Version (6RF tubes and "AX" OPT's)

    I'm asking everyone who has a 400 to pull the serial number and note how many RF(Tuner) tubes it has and get the Part number off of the Output Transformers. And post the results in this thread.And please note the EIA CODE off the transformer. This is the 7digit code under the transformer serial #.


    FORMAT
    SERIAL RF TUBES Transformer Suffix
    #32392.............5................."A"
    OR
    #48293.............6.................."AX"

    If we get enough to verify my theory, we will be able to make a clear demarcation of the EARLY to LATE VERSION. This 30000 and up manual throws some doubt into the present equation where the LATE 400's start with 48001. If we can get more verification of the number of tubes and the Transformers in the 30000 -47999 range we may be able to refute the 30000 manual as an anomaly and write it out of the akdatabase/Fisherconsoles/other sources where we have some control or say what goes in.

    We want, and need correct manuals for these units, and AudioKarma has a lot of pull in the Forums market. So lets all pull together and get the 400 manuals straightened out once and for all.

    Thanks

    Larry
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015

     

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  2. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

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    Jeez! Over 100 views and NOT ONE RESPONSE??? Come on Guys, I know damned well I'm not the only guy out there that has a FISHER 400 Receiver. All I'm asking is for you to spend 2 minutes, and jot down your serial #, look at the number of RF (Tuner) tubes and note which suffix the output transformers have, then post it here.

    Lets make it easier on ourselves and those that come behind us and get the manuals at least correct with the 2 MAJOR VERSIONS of this receiver. I'm seeing more and more people that come here to AK as new members and are already using the wrong manual or have incorrect information because of it.

    Larry
     
  3. dcgillespie

    dcgillespie Fisher SA-100 Clone Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Thanks for undertaking this Larry --

    I'll start the ball rolling with mine, which is serial number 56439V -- with the AX suffix output transformers and 4 tubes in the IF section. Clearly, a later version of this model.

    Dave
     
  4. blhagstrom

    blhagstrom Mad Scientist, fixer. Subscriber

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    Hmmm, first time I saw this thread.
    I'll look at mine and get info.
     
  5. RS Steve

    RS Steve Tube Junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
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    My 400 reads - 57753V Suffix is AX, and 4 tube IF strip.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  6. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

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    Steve. Count the # of tubes from and including V3. It'll be 3 or 4. Need that too.
     

     

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  7. kcdonahue

    kcdonahue AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Bel Air MD
    10539A 5 tubes No Trans Prefix (T1020-116-1)
    31105R 5 tubes No Trans Prefix (T1020-116-1)
     
  8. RS Steve

    RS Steve Tube Junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Since it has a wood cabinet I can't really count the tubes, but here in my thread there are pictures of the tubes installed. I'm not sure which ones you want me to count, take a look and let me know and I will add the count to my original post.

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?posts/9021360/
     
  9. dcgillespie

    dcgillespie Fisher SA-100 Clone Subscriber

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    Larry -- I just reviewed my notes from the restoration on Steve's unit -- his has the four tube IF strip.

    Dave
     
  10. RS Steve

    RS Steve Tube Junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Thanks Dave!
     
  11. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

    Messages:
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    So far we have
    Larry 1 LATE 48293 (old Sold ) 32392
    Dave 1 LATE 56439V
    Steve 1 LATE 57753V
    KC 2 EARLY 10539A, 31105R

    Thanks Guys. So far so good. The 30000 series so far refute the 30K manual. I'd like to see some serials from the low 40's to gain more evidence.
     

     

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  12. Dadbar

    Dadbar Super Member

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    1,861
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    My unit is 80733 with the 6 tube IF strip. My unit came with dead trannies which I replaced from trannies off another unit (I don't have the serial number of the donor, and I did not keep the dead trannies either). Sorry about that....
     
  13. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

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    Dadbar; Check the part #'s on your current transformers. If they are the AX suffix, you're ok. If they are "A" suffix you could run into problems. Check with Dave G. about it if they are "A" or no suffix. The primary impedance on the early vs. late was different and the NFB and speaker circuits changed slightly to accomodate the change.
     
  14. eduarsan1

    eduarsan1 Luis Eduardo Sanchez Subscriber

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    Location:
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    SN: 56608. OT with AX prefix and 6 tubes in the IF strip.
    SN: 16462E. No prefix in the OT and 5 tubes in the IF strip.

    Luis
     
  15. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

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    Thanks Luis! Listening to mine right now with your old tubes in it. Not too shabby! Actually it's pretty good.
     
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  16. blhagstrom

    blhagstrom Mad Scientist, fixer. Subscriber

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    SN: 59554, OT has AX suffix, 6 tube IF section.
     

     

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  17. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

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    4 more added to the mix
    Dadbar 1LATE ( 80733 )
    Eduardsan 1 LATE ( 56608)
    ....."......."....1 EARLY (16462E )
    blhagstrom 1 LATE (59554 )

    Thanks Guys.
    Wish there were some late 30000 to 47000 units, but so far my theory is holding.
     
  18. Dadbar

    Dadbar Super Member

    Messages:
    1,861
    Location:
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    Thanks for the tip. Everything is working really well and it all sounds awesome so I don't feel like tearing the unit apart to check the trannies or mess with the NFB until I have a reason to do that.
     
  19. arts

    arts Super Member

    Messages:
    3,479
    Location:
    Qc, Canada
    This is for my own unit. I'll contact the owner of one I had in for service recently for more info.
    SN: 77082
    OT: T1020-116-1
    IF: 4 tube
     
  20. dcgillespie

    dcgillespie Fisher SA-100 Clone Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Whoa! Arts -- No AX suffix on the OPTs in your unit with that high of a serial number? Any chance that they were replaced at some point?

    Dave
     

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