Fisher Consoles 1959-1965

[TheRed1]

Scstocks,

What you have there is exactly what it says: an X-1000. The confusion arises due to the fact that Fisher used that exact same model number on a well known and highly desireable later-model integrated amp. As you surmised, yours is the console version of the X-101. They are nearly identical with only a few capacitor values changed to reduce the frequency response on the low end thereby reducing turntable rumble transmitted through the cabinet. I'm not sure if the output jack location is different than the X-101 but someone here should be able to tell us.

I'm not sure if you are aware just how interesting your Dad's Fisher is to us Fisher collectors. Until very recently it was assumed that Fisher had bypassed the "V" version of both the President and Executive consoles. Then the service manuals for both surfaced on eBay. Your photos are the first proof that there was actual production, though the service manuals were a pretty strong indication that the models actually existed. The President V had the 4000R tuner, the 4000C control amp and a pair of 100 amps. The Executive V, according to Fisher's service manual, had the 4000R tuner and the X-1000 integrated amp. You say your Dad's had the FM-100-B tuner. That is at odds with the service manual but Fisher was well known for constantly fiddling with their electronics.

What really caught my eye was the model number of your Dad's Executive: P-4000. I had assumed that the President V was the 4000 model but, based on your photo, it appears otherwise. Now we know the model number of the Executive V (4000 - the "P" was the cabinet code for "Provincial"), but what was the President V's model number if not 4000? 5000?

So far no 1961 Fisher Console catalog with either the President V or Executive V has surfaced. All the '61 catalogs I have seen have the "VI" Presidents and Executives. Fisher sometimes produced several catalog versions during a single model year often with updated features and sometimes with completely new models. It's possible that there was an early '61 catalog with the Vs but it has yet to surface. I have no idea why Fisher found it necessasary to offer two entirely different President and Executive models within a single model year. It seems probable to me that the V models had a very short production run which would have made your Dad's somewhat rare. It's too bad that the console itself was lost but at least you saved a few of the more valuable elements.

I'd be curious to know more about your Dad. Buying a Fisher Executive in 1961 paints a portrait of a man who was very serious about his music and had the means to indulge himself and his family with the very best. What were his tastes in music?

Incidentally, you should be able to restore it using the X-101 schematic. It will probably sound better with the coupling capacitor values listed therein than the ones on the X-1000 (console version) schematic.

 

[scstocks]

Executive V

Ahhh I feel like a man redeemed. Thank You for your quick response. I wasn't sure how much this thread was still followed.

My father was retired military, 3rd Army officer during WWII, once met General Patton in Europe/Germany. I have pictures of when his unit "Liberated" one of the concentration camps. Pictures never to be forgotten once viewed.

Once Back from the war he went to work in sales and was a sales manager at various times.

He always loved music and would tune in different Oprera music every Saturday afternoon, and I can still see him get carried away with his eyes closed and head gently moving. A stark difference to a hardened Vet for sure.

I think Sheharizod, (I am an awful speller, so sorry if I hacked that to bits,) was his favorite piece, but he loved classical. He passed away in 2002 after being sick just 3 days.

This Fisher Executive V was the first floor living room unit and was used during cocktail hour with clients at the house, or adult parties in general. The picture of the living room reminded me of some of the ads posted in this thread, complete with cigarettes and cocktails.

It was also used a lot by his three sons of which I am the youngest. I once remember sitting around the living room, doing things that young people did way to much of in the 1970's, and watching a flower pot vibrate off the unit and crash to the floor while we all just sat there laughing.

Shortly after that my mother removed the 4 6bq5's out of the back of the unit and it wasn't used again for a long time.....

My oldest brother would use the Sony tape player with a band he messed around with and they blew fuses in it more than once.

In my mind I was 95% sure I had filed the manuals away when I removed the amp and tuner, but I have been unable to find them the few times I have looked these last 10+ years. They were stored in the back of the turntable drawer for decades. I am going to give it another shot as there was something else in that turntable drawer that I do have, so maybe I can find the manuals this time.

My father went to solid state sliver faced Pioneer after this unit and had a listening room/office built in our basement with extra speakers run out into the main basement, all paneled with soundproof ceiling tiles. He loved his music. We still have the speakers that went with that system at my mothers and they are Huge. The woofers on those things have a rounded, silver, flat cover over them the size of a large pyrex baking dish. Only ones I have ever seen like that.

I had pm'ed Fisherdude as one of his 2006 posts from this site is what finally turned up while searching for what type of amp I might have. He was kind enough to respond today as well via pm.

There is a can capacitor that I can't see as it is mounted up against the back of the faceplate/front guard and I am hoping that he can see it on his.

So far I have ordered a 100/350 sprague atom cap for the large one in the X-101, and some 716p's for 4 of the old paper/wax caps in it.

I am new to restores and only have a recapping of a Dynaco ST-70 under my belt, but I just love the way it turned out, so out came the Fisher. I have variacs, soldering experience, tubes galore, but not a lot of "hands on" under the amp type experience yet.

I'll attach some more photos below and if I find the paperwork I will post it as well. I think the original receipt was in those two packets as well.

Thanks again.

 

[scstocks]

Executive V

Last 5 pics, nearly 1 am here. Last pic is those speakers I mentioned that were not part of the Fisher console, (obviously.)

I have really enjoyed this site since I found it last year, and was just a peeker until today. Happy to try and contribute.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[larryderouin]

JEEEZ! Talk about the MISSING LINK! SCSTOCKS has it! Gorgeous! Just Flat out Gorgeous! Too bad about having to gut it, and then the rest being stolen. But you have the main units to work with and listen to the music that made your dad so happy.

 

[scstocks]

I got to thinking about that FM-100-B tuner in the Executive V. I was born in 1956, so my recollection of details of the Executive V's early years are not great.

I began to think it was possible that my father could have had a problem with a different, original tuner, had then had it replaced with the 100-B.

I spoke with my mother today and she seemed to think that my father would have had a folder filed with the purchase of the Executive V up at her house. He was really good about record keeping, (Military.) She has no memory of him ever replacing the tuner.

So I will check her two file cabinets when I am up there on Wednesday. I had no luck looking here for paperwork today.

I did however hit a bit of a gold mine while searching through old photos on my computer. I used to own a couple of photo businesses in Myrtle Beach, SC, and still have some high end Kodak Thermal printers.

A few years ago I completed a family project of making Christmas presents for my remaining family. I scanned in bits of receipts and whatever I could find dating back to the 1800's, all in our family name.

Part of that project involved me scanning in a LOT of old slides. I have them saved in folders from 1964 through 1967.

I found a couple that have the Executive V in them, and thought you might find them interesting.

The first one was in a folder dated 1964/1965 and shows a friend of my oldest brother sitting at a drum set. In this photo you can only make out the X-101 Amp. It is on the right side on the unit, rather than the left side, where I had put it to take pictures for my failed ebay auction.

The second one clearly shows the FM-100-B tuner in it and was in a folder dated 1965. That is my father in the background sitting at a table with his back to the camera, and the lamp in this picture still sits in my mothers front hallway, many houses later....

So it looks like the 100-B did in fact come stock, unless he had it replaced within the first 2 or 3 years he had the Executive V.

Hope this helps with your record keeping.

 

[larryderouin]

Hey Red. You hit on something about the Early 61/late 61 catalogs, and something about the "PRESIDENT" era's. JFK was sworn in in Jan 61. IF, and I DO MEAN IF FISHER was designing President and Executives to "FIT" the Oval Office Resident's then they may have changed the President and Executives Mid year after Ike left and JFK took over. The turn over in styling fits this theory.

 

[Ilikevinyl]

When I was a kid I'd go over to a neighbor friend and listen to their 1968 Fisher Console Stereo "Fisher Statesman", the country french model. Can't believe I found the one they had. It's the model on the top. Had a Dual 1019 turntable in it. The sound was amazing! Build quality was first class!

http://s408.photobucket.com/albums/pp168/torskdoc/1968%20FISHER%20CONSOLE%20BROCHURE/?action=view&current=68fisher0025.jpg

http://s408.photobucket.com/albums/pp168/torskdoc/1968%20FISHER%20CONSOLE%20BROCHURE/?action=view&current=68fisher0024.jpg

Here is what we had. Can't believe I just found this photo of it. A 1955 Voice-Of-Music Hi-fi. My Grandparents gave it to us in the late 1960's.

 

[larryderouin]

I picked up ANOTHER (#5) FISHER Console. 1964 C.E. VII (E-49-W) Modern in Walnut, from Naptown Rob. (See this thread..... http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=383041). My wife looked at the Picture of it that Rob had posted and swooned"THAT's CUTE"! When she says that I know I'm good to go!!!

 

[RogerKulp]

Last 5 pics, nearly 1 am here. Last pic is those speakers I mentioned that were not part of the Fisher console, (obviously.)

I have really enjoyed this site since I found it last year, and was just a peeker until today. Happy to try and contribute.

Thanks again for your help.

BTW,what kind of turntable/changer is in that '61?

 

[larryderouin]

BTW,what kind of turntable/changer is in that '61?

Looks like a DUAL 1009.

 

[buglegirl]

Hiya,

I think its a 1019 as higher level consoles and this is certainly one of those upgraded that component.

Although its hard to tell with that pesky original paperwork laying on it. Someone should have thrown that stuff away long ago as usual <kidding>

EDIT:: Interesting as the 1009/1019 were not even in production in 1961 as far as I know. :scratch2:

Frannie

 

[scstocks]

BTW,what kind of turntable/changer is in that '61?

It is indeed a Dual 1009. I thought I had the Pickering boxes but have been unable to find them, so they may have been lost as well.

Here is a pic of the turntable before it went into "storage."

 

[RogerKulp]

catalog 2

That X-101 is the one I have.$189.50 in 1959 = $1471.21 in 2011

 

[RogerKulp]

Love to own an Ambassador,but not for $1850.00 with the shipping. :tears::nono:

 

[larryderouin]

Jeez, at those prices, I'd love to be smoking what he is!!! My CE VII is in better shape, re-capped and with new 6n14p's. As is my Hybrid CE VIII, and Hybrid FUTURA VI. The Futura has had the cabinet refinished, all caps replaced, (including the cans), and ITT ELL80's. The Turntable right now is a 1009 and it has the original Miracord 10F restored, with it's mounting panel, then encased in plastic and stored inside. And ain't no way in hell I'd get 1/3 of what he's asking. (Unless a Chinese buyer came along, then I'd hold out )

Larry

 

[Victrolaman]

I have that ambassador listed above, mine is a 1965. I have the original manuals and a 1965 catalog brochure as well. Mine has the dual 1009 changer in it as well. One of the best consoles in my collection

 

[larryderouin]

Victrolaman; Can you please scan the brochure, and the manuals and send to TheRed1 and jonboy55. This would help greatly with filling out the details on model lineup, and enhance the manual archives.

Thanks

Larry

 

[TheRed1]

Ratings of the 1965 Consoles

After reading recently that the 1940 and 1941 Philharmonics were rated best of the pre-war radio-phonograph 'combinations', as they were referred to back then; it was reassuring to see that Fisher's bottom-of-the-line P-290 Philharmonic 'console' was still upholding Avery's tradition of quality 25 years later:

Most of the machines were wanting in one or more important aspects of FM and AM radio performance (see table). Only two machines, the Fisher P-290W and the Zenith MM2606, combined good reception on FM and AM with a fairly good tone quality. Either may give the console shopper substantially what he is looking for. A third machine, the Masterwork M5024, was judged about equal to the first two in tone quality; moreover, the tone quality of its phonograph could be improved by substituting, for about $11, a different stylus for the one supplied, a change the owner can make in a few seconds. However, the Masterwork was judged inadequate in FM selectivity, a weakness that may be important in locations where stations are spaced close together on the dial.

For the two top-rated machines we bought the extension speakers offered by the manufacturers - the WS-1 for the Fisher ($49.50 per pair); the MR-102W for the Zenith ($59.50 per pair). The Fisher speakers (3-3/4x11-1/4x4-1/2 inches, with 15-foot wires) were judged to improve the stereo effect, but they added some shrillness to the tone quality. These speakers can’t be turned off while they are plugged in; there is no switch for them. The Zenith speakers (11-1/2x14x3-1/2 inches, with 26-foot wires also enhanced the stereo, and they did not detract from the original tone quality (though they didn’t make it any better). They have individual on-off switches at their backs. Thus, for a price, you can get better stereo along with fairly good tone quality and good radio reception from at least one of the tested consoles.

Defects and Bungled Repairs:

But choice of a satisfactory model is not the only problem facing a console buyer. If the machines we bought for testing are at all typical, the buyer stands a big chance of getting a defective sample. And if our experience with manufacturers’ authorized service firms in the New York City area is typical of what one would find in the rest of the country, he is likely to face nearly endless frustration when he tries to get a defective machine fixed under the manufacturer’s warranty.

In the Philco N1763MB certain transistors were extremely susceptible to overload and became damaged under laboratory test conditions, first in one sample, then in a second. It took the authorized repair shop from three to five weeks to install replacement transistors. After two such breakdowns, there was no time left to test the model for inclusion in this test.

The Electro-Home TR18M185 arrived with the receiver chassis broken away from its internal mountings. In a second sample the AM section was not operating. The authorized service shop did not have the needed replacement parts, and failed to get them during 15 weeks of waiting. Again, testing time ran out.

The Symphonic T-4CS98 had excessive distortion on FM. A second sample was totally inoperative. Once more, by the time repairs were done, there was no time to test the model.

The GE RC7630A, judged Not Acceptable because of excessive hum and rumble, was given to an authorized repair shop. Meanwhile, a second sample was bought and proved as bad as the first. Repairs to the first sample reduced the hum slightly, but not enough to change the Not Acceptable Rating.

Four more of our test samples, a Westinghouse M 1330, a Sears Silvertone 5071, a V-M 954, and an RCA VFT 44W, had crippling defects as delivered. A second sample of each of these models was properly operative and could be tested. But the first sample of the Westinghouse added to the score on bungled repairs: sent to an authorized shop, it came back still defective. We returned it for further repairs, and were still awaiting results as we went to press.

Any buyer who gets one of the apparently numerous lemons in this product’s current crop is caught in a bad situation. He can’t just tote a five-foot wide, heavy console back to the dealer and demand an exchange. Even if he did, most dealers wouldn’t make an exchange (though some might be willing to cancel the whole deal and refund his money). The dealer expects his customer to have any defects that show up in the set corrected under the manufacturer’s warranty.

The Performance Tests

The performance test confirmed a point we’ve often made before: a consumer can draw no conclusion about quality of performance from the presence of transistors, rather than tubes, in a model. Transistors do, however, offer the advantages of longer life, immediate start-up, and low heat generation.

The changer tests brought good news compared with findings on changers in perviously tested console phonographs. Only negligible rumble was found in the Acceptable changers, and only two, as the table shows, had even moderate flutter. Moreover, the tracking force settings were far below the record-destroying 6 to 10 grams often found in earlier tests of changers. Settings of 5 grams or more will definitely cause accelerated wear and high distortion on stereo discs, and even 4 grams is considered marginal. Of the six machines that came with tracking force of 4 grams or more, three (see table) could be readjusted to 3.5 grams or less and still “track” properly, without skipping or jumping at loud passages or on the inside grooves of a record.

Controls and Indicators

The radio control panels of the tested consoles, with their rows of knobs, switches, and lights, look much like those of component-type tuners. Common to all are separate bass and treble controls, and all except the Magnavox have speaker balance controls on the radio panel. The Magnavox also has this control, but inside the console, inaccessible to the user. Although this model came with correct speaker balance, an accessible control is desirable if external speakers are used; in any case, the control should be handy for eventual readjustment to compensate for aging parts.

Seven of the sets have tuning indicators (either meter or eye tube) meant to give visual assurance that a station is tuned in precisely. In our tests, however, the peak point on the meter or narrowest shadow on the “eye” generally did not correspond to the point of least distortion; fine-tuning had to be done by ear after the indicator had shown approximately where the station was.

Every machine tested has a stereo indicator that lights up to tell you that a stereo FM program is tuned in. On some it operates only when the set is switched to FM stereo; on others it works on both FM mono and FM stereo settings. This difference did not seem to us to be important.

All but two set have automatic frequency control (AFC), which “locks” the FM radio on a station to prevent drifting as the radio warms. When you try to tune in a weak station very near a strong one on the dial, however, the AFC may pull the tuning over to the strong one. In order to listen to the weaker station, you need a switch that turns the AFC off. All the sets with AFC, except the V-M, have such a switch. The two sets without AFC, Fisher and Masterwork, did not drift.

Some Conveniences

Most sets provide auxiliary jacks for tape recorders, although among the two highest-ranked machines only the Fisher has output as well as input jacks. If you plug a tape recorder into an input jack, you can listen to tape recordings through the amplifier and speakers of the console. Plug it into an output jack, and you can make tape recordings of any program, from radio or disc, that you hear on the console. Besides tape recorder jacks, three models (Sears, Sylvania, and Clairtone) have jacks for plugging in stereo headphones, a convenience for private listening or for those who want the special stereo experience such phones can give.

Generally the jacks are at the rear and directly accessible, but the Wards Airline and V-M have jacks inside the console, accessible only when the back cover is taken off-hardly a convenient arrangement. However, a serviceman can fit these machines with external jacks. On the Zenith, Magnavox, and Sylvania, an optional kit to provide external jacks is available, but the kit must be installed by a serviceman.

Summary:

All in all, then these “packaged” consoles aren’t going to satisfy a demanding listener who wants the sound quality and stereo effect the ads promise. But, it should be added, neither will anything else in the same price range. Top-grade sound from a system made up of components we rated highly would list at about $600 - without a cabinet. So it is a straight case of paying more for more, less for less.

On the other hand, if the buyer is “upgrading” his listening to one of these machines from a table model radio plus a portable phonograph - sources that currently furnish sound in millions of American homes - he’s apt to consider the tone quality of the better consoles, by comparison, positively grand.

 

[buglegirl]

Hiya,

Red1 .. this is an interesting write up. I know it was likely outside the original intent but it would have been interesting to know what these sounded like with good mid range speakers of the day. (I know they did some testing with limited factory add on speakers)

Also noted were the numerous DOA consoles. Makes one think about actual quality back in the good old days.

Not saying things are better or worse now. Just noted the defect level seems to be rather high.

Frannie

 

[joel27]

Very cool read. Thanks for sharing that.