Fisher Tube Receiver Advice

wbgarman

New Member
I'm new to the forum here and hoping to obtain some advice on vintage Fisher equipment. I currently have a modest setup and am looking to obtain a more rich / warmer tone from my vinyl records. Based on my initial research, it appears that a few brands (Fisher, Sansui, McIntosh, H.H. Scott) continue to receive attention in the vintage tube receiver and integrated amp space. I'm hoping the Fisher experts here can help provide a few recommendations on a tube receiver or integrated tube amp for my setup. Let me know if you have any initial insights or suggestions for my home audio setup.

Current Setup:
  • Technics SL-2000 turntable
  • JVC RX-208 receiver
  • Pair of KLH 23 speakers
Looking For:
  • Recommendations on Fisher Tube Receiver or Integrated Tube Amp (AM/FM tuner isn't necessary for this setup)
 
Fisher made a lot of great units, I love my KX-200, the KX 100 is nice too. The X202/X202B are similar and sought after as well. The 400,500 and 800 series receivers are very popular. Just so you know as well, the X series and KX series are the same amps, the KX indicates it was a kit to be assembled by the owner.

Another brand commonly associated with what you've listed is Dynaco. The ST70, ST120 are raved about around these parts but I have no experience with them myself.

Good luck on your search,

Matt
 
The phono preamp section in most FISHER Tube gear from 1960 to 1968 was basically the same. And it's quite good, generally accurate to the RIAA specs.

The 7591 powered integrated are the most powerful, but can be the most difficult to overhaul (if you are a DIY'er) Most all of the integrated's had cathode bias, and the straight amps were either cathode biased, or fixed (very few) BIAS.

I have 2 800c's, a400, a TA-600, and a X-101-B integrated and love them all. And then there are the 9 FISHER Tube consoles to contend with.The fun never ends.
 
There is allot of early 60's tube stuff made by many manufacturers like Marantz and McIntosh. But, if you have your heart set on a Fisher, that's cool too !! Then again for a tube sound, you can get a tube phono preamp that has no solid state and add it to your turntable output and you would be impressed with the sound. Kind of like which gun is more necessary, the small one or the big one.....
 
Thank you CrawfishKing and larryderouin for the insights. I've seen a few X-101-B, X-101-C, and 400s for sale recently. Any significant differences in performance in these models?

There is allot of early 60's tube stuff made by many manufacturers like Marantz and McIntosh. But, if you have your heart set on a Fisher, that's cool too !! Then again for a tube sound, you can get a tube phono preamp that has no solid state and add it to your turntable output and you would be impressed with the sound. Kind of like which gun is more necessary, the small one or the big one.....

Djcoolray, I'm not set on Fisher, so if there are any other strong recommendations that are reasonably priced (>$1,000), then I'd be happy to learn more. Regarding, the tube phono preamp, how would that work exactly? Would I just bypass the phono input on my current receiver and go into one of the other inputs?
 
Thank you CrawfishKing and larryderouin for the insights. I've seen a few X-101-B, X-101-C, and 400s for sale recently. Any significant differences in performance in these models?



Djcoolray, I'm not set on Fisher, so if there are any other strong recommendations that are reasonably priced (>$1,000), then I'd be happy to learn more. Regarding, the tube phono preamp, how would that work exactly? Would I just bypass the phono input on my current receiver and go into one of the other inputs?

A tube phono preamp goes in between your turntable and the phono input of your receiver as an enhancement measure. I've never considered hooking up a phono preamp to the auxiliary input of a receiver so you could try that just to see what the difference is. But, you won't go wrong with McIntosh tube equipment due to the technical support behind the brand because of the age of the equipment. All tube equipment needs to be rebuilt then maintained so purchasing tube equipment to be rebuilt at the lowest price is important, that is if you can't find something that has been maintained over the years by a reputable technician that services better peices of equipment. A McIntosh dealer that sells new and refurbished classic equipment will save allot of money in the long run as long as you pay attention to the history of the equipment and how it's been taken care of. Then like most of us, we accumulate pieces of equipment over time.

Enjoy...
 
An External Phono Preamp actually goes in between the turntable and the AUX input, not the phono input. with the preamp in the phono input, Besides 2 amplification stages, you now have 2 RIAA EQ Stages which will really FUBAR THE SOUND. Remember, EXTERNAL PREAMPS = AUX. Another one you need to watch out for is the "TAPE HEAD Input. This is similar to the phono input with a slightly different EQ stage called NAB. It's ONLY used on older Reel to Reel Tape DECKS that have no built in preamp like the TEAC A-4000. The Heads are connected straight to RCA's and these connect to the TAPE HEAD Inputs. Otherwise Reel to Reel Deck , cassette Decks, and CD players plug in to AUX.
 
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No all tube McIntosh or Marantz receivers or integrated amplifiers ever made, McIntosh only hybrid, Marantz SS but the scope tube. Want McIntosh or Marantz which is all tube, only separates available.
 
While I LOVE my Fisher 400 receiver, the stuff from HH Scott is equally nice and about the same $$$ as the corresponding amps from Fisher. I have an HH Scott 299(A) Amp that I really like a lot, but all of the stuff in the 299 and 222 series (and their corresponding kit versions LK48 and LK72) are very much worth considering.

I would suggest reading all of the back issues of Vacuum Tube Valley magazine. There is a wealth of info on a lot of similar amps and receivers from Fisher, Scott, and more.
https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=54889.0
 
Thank you CrawfishKing and larryderouin for the insights. I've seen a few X-101-B, X-101-C, and 400s for sale recently. Any significant differences in performance in these models?

Pound for pound and with a chassis of the same or similar size, a receiver obviously is more complicated than an integrated or straight amp. You have in the same space an integrated amplifier with an added tuner and after mid 1961 a multiplexer. The amplifier's of the x101-B, 101-C and the 400 would be roughly similar except for the output tubes, and the bias circuit. They all put out btwn 25 and 35watts. The 101's use a cathode bias where the 400 uses a fixed bias. The 7868 and 7591 tubes are basically the same tube with different bases. However due to the added tuner and multiplexer circuits there will be compromises to the Amplifier circuits in the 400. Not much, but the 101B & C will outperform it in most catagories. The 400 is no slouch by any means. But any integrated amp vs. a receiver of comparable wattage will beat the receiver most every time. Receivers are more for people who don't like to mess with separate components. I'm one of them. The x-101-B I do have is a nicely built amp, but as I've had receivers all my life, I'm used to them and their layout. With the X-101-B, and a KM-60, I have to make myself work to make any adjustments rather than by feel. But I've only had the X-101-B a few months.

In any event it's what you want. If you want a 25-35W integrated, the X-101-B & C models will serve you well. They are fairly simple (compared to the X-202's) and use the 7591 tube. The X-101 uses 7189/EL84 type tube. The X-101 is about a 15-20w system. None of the X-101 models have the bells and whistles of the 202's. But they ALL sound very good and comparable to most H.H. Scott, Mac, Marantz, Sherwood, and other brands.

The X-101-B I got on Bartertown was priced @ $400. I contacted the seller and asked if he would sell it without the tubes and for how much. He took off $150. and the deal was set. I ended up purchasing new tubes from Jim McShane (4-Tungsol ReIssue 7591's, Sovtek GZ34/5AR4, 4-Tungsol 12ax7 and 2-SOVTEK 12ax7LPS(PHONO)). Just the 7591's took up 90% of the reduction in selling price. Oh well. New Hayseed Hamfest Can Caps, new lytics and films underneath, a few resistors, Cathode resistors, screen Safety resistors, Bias set, and AC BALANCE Set (this is actually the Phase Inverter adjustment.) I have a A-B switch box so the 101 is hooked up on "A" with my rebuilt 400 on "B" and they are quite even pushing KLH-17's. The 101 does have 2 sets of Mag phono jacks where the 400 has one. Which is a plus. The 101 has a pair of level controls on the upper row that is for the phono level. Leave it @ max. and use the Volume control to set volume. This is a minus as it's another link/joint in the signal path. The next Minus that is a non issue today is the separation control. Leave it @ max stereo. It could be disconnected and hardwired but historically accurate is better. The 3rd minus is the REMOTE CONTROL dummy plug. A dual control wired remote (very very very rare) was plugged in and you could adjust the volume from the comfort of your seat. But today, it's another joint in the signal path. Some guys wire it the leads directly to the volume control, bypassing the dummy plug. If you have the remote, leaving it hooked up is up to you.


To actually get what you want, what you need to do is to audition each contestant. If you are not a DIY and are on a budget, tend toward units that are working on both channels. Take a pair of headphones, as the speakers there and the room it's in will invariably be different from your setup and WILL sound different. The headphones solve the problem. Listen to your current setup on the phones about a week before you start looking about 2 hours a day, low volume so you don't hurt your ears. Then when you go plug in the headphones and check them out. Before you go, call and ask if they have a turntable or tape deck attached. Bring a LP or a tpe you like and audition it on the unit. This will give you a very good idea what it will sound like at home. But DO listen to each unit thru the speakers also.

In the end what you do get is up to you. If all you are doing is listening to LP's and Tape, then an integrated is about ideal. You could go with a straight preamp (400-C to CX2) and 2 amps, but you get into more chassis' and more joints and cables sitting all over. If you listen to FM or DX AM, you can get a tuner of your choice.
Honestly, don't just zero in on FISHER unless you love the aesthetics too. They tend to be plain in a classic way, with a logical layout. The 101-C started the 2 tone front end for FISHER. Later models tended to look somewhat like their receivers (1965-1969/70). They tend to be built very well, German engineered, with German parts (caps and resistors) which didn't last as well as was hoped. But this was not just FISHER Most of the manufacturers had similar parts and problems. Mac & Marantz tended to have less problems overall, but their problems were more involved.

Larry
 
Pound for pound and with a chassis of the same or similar size, a receiver obviously is more complicated than an integrated or straight amp. You have in the same space an integrated amplifier with an added tuner and after mid 1961 a multiplexer. The amplifier's of the x101-B, 101-C and the 400 would be roughly similar except for the output tubes, and the bias circuit. They all put out btwn 25 and 35watts. The 101's use a cathode bias where the 400 uses a fixed bias. The 7868 and 7591 tubes are basically the same tube with different bases. However due to the added tuner and multiplexer circuits there will be compromises to the Amplifier circuits in the 400. Not much, but the 101B & C will outperform it in most catagories. The 400 is no slouch by any means. But any integrated amp vs. a receiver of comparable wattage will beat the receiver most every time. Receivers are more for people who don't like to mess with separate components. I'm one of them. The x-101-B I do have is a nicely built amp, but as I've had receivers all my life, I'm used to them and their layout. With the X-101-B, and a KM-60, I have to make myself work to make any adjustments rather than by feel. But I've only had the X-101-B a few months.

In any event it's what you want. If you want a 25-35W integrated, the X-101-B & C models will serve you well. They are fairly simple (compared to the X-202's) and use the 7591 tube. The X-101 uses 7189/EL84 type tube. The X-101 is about a 15-20w system. None of the X-101 models have the bells and whistles of the 202's. But they ALL sound very good and comparable to most H.H. Scott, Mac, Marantz, Sherwood, and other brands.

The X-101-B I got on Bartertown was priced @ $400. I contacted the seller and asked if he would sell it without the tubes and for how much. He took off $150. and the deal was set. I ended up purchasing new tubes from Jim McShane (4-Tungsol ReIssue 7591's, Sovtek GZ34/5AR4, 4-Tungsol 12ax7 and 2-SOVTEK 12ax7LPS(PHONO)). Just the 7591's took up 90% of the reduction in selling price. Oh well. New Hayseed Hamfest Can Caps, new lytics and films underneath, a few resistors, Cathode resistors, screen Safety resistors, Bias set, and AC BALANCE Set (this is actually the Phase Inverter adjustment.) I have a A-B switch box so the 101 is hooked up on "A" with my rebuilt 400 on "B" and they are quite even pushing KLH-17's. The 101 does have 2 sets of Mag phono jacks where the 400 has one. Which is a plus. The 101 has a pair of level controls on the upper row that is for the phono level. Leave it @ max. and use the Volume control to set volume. This is a minus as it's another link/joint in the signal path. The next Minus that is a non issue today is the separation control. Leave it @ max stereo. It could be disconnected and hardwired but historically accurate is better. The 3rd minus is the REMOTE CONTROL dummy plug. A dual control wired remote (very very very rare) was plugged in and you could adjust the volume from the comfort of your seat. But today, it's another joint in the signal path. Some guys wire it the leads directly to the volume control, bypassing the dummy plug. If you have the remote, leaving it hooked up is up to you.


To actually get what you want, what you need to do is to audition each contestant. If you are not a DIY and are on a budget, tend toward units that are working on both channels. Take a pair of headphones, as the speakers there and the room it's in will invariably be different from your setup and WILL sound different. The headphones solve the problem. Listen to your current setup on the phones about a week before you start looking about 2 hours a day, low volume so you don't hurt your ears. Then when you go plug in the headphones and check them out. Before you go, call and ask if they have a turntable or tape deck attached. Bring a LP or a tpe you like and audition it on the unit. This will give you a very good idea what it will sound like at home. But DO listen to each unit thru the speakers also.

In the end what you do get is up to you. If all you are doing is listening to LP's and Tape, then an integrated is about ideal. You could go with a straight preamp (400-C to CX2) and 2 amps, but you get into more chassis' and more joints and cables sitting all over. If you listen to FM or DX AM, you can get a tuner of your choice.
Honestly, don't just zero in on FISHER unless you love the aesthetics too. They tend to be plain in a classic way, with a logical layout. The 101-C started the 2 tone front end for FISHER. Later models tended to look somewhat like their receivers (1965-1969/70). They tend to be built very well, German engineered, with German parts (caps and resistors) which didn't last as well as was hoped. But this was not just FISHER Most of the manufacturers had similar parts and problems. Mac & Marantz tended to have less problems overall, but their problems were more involved.

Larry

Very, Very sound advice.
To OP:
My personal music journey led me to Fisher firstly because of the bird on the dial glass. Then I heard one.
If you don't plan on listening to radio broadcasts, then don't get a receiver. Integrated is the way to go. The Fisher receivers I own, I never listen to the radio on... although they are great signal grabbers. I have an affinity for integrated amps so I've had a few.

My recommendations for integrated under 1k ( taking in consideration that it will be primarily used with phono) In order of my favorites :

1. HH Scott 299c
2.Fisher kx-200 or X-202 ( if available restored at 1k) If you can stretch to 1200-1300, then a used Rouge Cronus is an excellent integrated also, I digress...
3. Altec 353A more efficient speakers needed
4.Fisher KX-100, or X-101
5. HH Scott 296 ( if available for 1k, though not likely)
5. HH scott 222
6. Harmon Kardon A500 or A50 k.
7. HK A300 but more efficient speakers needed.
8. Sherwood S-5500. A really unique sound, but needs to be on the list.
9. Eico HF = 81
10. Heathkit AA-151

I am no t suggesting that you should think outside of the Fisher box, because it is a nice box to be in... but if you do, it is a big, joyous, integrated world. have fun!
 
Pound for pound and with a chassis of the same or similar size, a receiver obviously is more complicated than an integrated or straight amp. You have in the same space an integrated amplifier with an added tuner and after mid 1961 a multiplexer. The amplifier's of the x101-B, 101-C and the 400 would be roughly similar except for the output tubes, and the bias circuit. They all put out btwn 25 and 35watts. The 101's use a cathode bias where the 400 uses a fixed bias. The 7868 and 7591 tubes are basically the same tube with different bases. However due to the added tuner and multiplexer circuits there will be compromises to the Amplifier circuits in the 400. Not much, but the 101B & C will outperform it in most catagories. The 400 is no slouch by any means. But any integrated amp vs. a receiver of comparable wattage will beat the receiver most every time. Receivers are more for people who don't like to mess with separate components. I'm one of them. The x-101-B I do have is a nicely built amp, but as I've had receivers all my life, I'm used to them and their layout. With the X-101-B, and a KM-60, I have to make myself work to make any adjustments rather than by feel. But I've only had the X-101-B a few months.

In any event it's what you want. If you want a 25-35W integrated, the X-101-B & C models will serve you well. They are fairly simple (compared to the X-202's) and use the 7591 tube. The X-101 uses 7189/EL84 type tube. The X-101 is about a 15-20w system. None of the X-101 models have the bells and whistles of the 202's. But they ALL sound very good and comparable to most H.H. Scott, Mac, Marantz, Sherwood, and other brands.

The X-101-B I got on Bartertown was priced @ $400. I contacted the seller and asked if he would sell it without the tubes and for how much. He took off $150. and the deal was set. I ended up purchasing new tubes from Jim McShane (4-Tungsol ReIssue 7591's, Sovtek GZ34/5AR4, 4-Tungsol 12ax7 and 2-SOVTEK 12ax7LPS(PHONO)). Just the 7591's took up 90% of the reduction in selling price. Oh well. New Hayseed Hamfest Can Caps, new lytics and films underneath, a few resistors, Cathode resistors, screen Safety resistors, Bias set, and AC BALANCE Set (this is actually the Phase Inverter adjustment.) I have a A-B switch box so the 101 is hooked up on "A" with my rebuilt 400 on "B" and they are quite even pushing KLH-17's. The 101 does have 2 sets of Mag phono jacks where the 400 has one. Which is a plus. The 101 has a pair of level controls on the upper row that is for the phono level. Leave it @ max. and use the Volume control to set volume. This is a minus as it's another link/joint in the signal path. The next Minus that is a non issue today is the separation control. Leave it @ max stereo. It could be disconnected and hardwired but historically accurate is better. The 3rd minus is the REMOTE CONTROL dummy plug. A dual control wired remote (very very very rare) was plugged in and you could adjust the volume from the comfort of your seat. But today, it's another joint in the signal path. Some guys wire it the leads directly to the volume control, bypassing the dummy plug. If you have the remote, leaving it hooked up is up to you.


To actually get what you want, what you need to do is to audition each contestant. If you are not a DIY and are on a budget, tend toward units that are working on both channels. Take a pair of headphones, as the speakers there and the room it's in will invariably be different from your setup and WILL sound different. The headphones solve the problem. Listen to your current setup on the phones about a week before you start looking about 2 hours a day, low volume so you don't hurt your ears. Then when you go plug in the headphones and check them out. Before you go, call and ask if they have a turntable or tape deck attached. Bring a LP or a tpe you like and audition it on the unit. This will give you a very good idea what it will sound like at home. But DO listen to each unit thru the speakers also.

In the end what you do get is up to you. If all you are doing is listening to LP's and Tape, then an integrated is about ideal. You could go with a straight preamp (400-C to CX2) and 2 amps, but you get into more chassis' and more joints and cables sitting all over. If you listen to FM or DX AM, you can get a tuner of your choice.
Honestly, don't just zero in on FISHER unless you love the aesthetics too. They tend to be plain in a classic way, with a logical layout. The 101-C started the 2 tone front end for FISHER. Later models tended to look somewhat like their receivers (1965-1969/70). They tend to be built very well, German engineered, with German parts (caps and resistors) which didn't last as well as was hoped. But this was not just FISHER Most of the manufacturers had similar parts and problems. Mac & Marantz tended to have less problems overall, but their problems were more involved.

Larry

Thank you Larry for the very thorough response. This helps clear up a lot of questions on my end in terms of what to look for and the pros/cons of the varying models.

OP: Where are you located?

I'm in Atlanta
 
Thank you everyone for the guidance above. I pulled the trigger on a X-101-C Integrated Amp. IMO, the styling and design of this integrated amp is excellent. I look forward to learning more about the Fisher tube gear and getting the X-101-C dialed in. So far there is a small issue with the 'AC OFF' not disabling power to the amp. I'll search on the forum and see if there are any discussions on this topic before opening a new thread.
 
Replace the switch. This is a common problem with Fisher's, Scott, Sherwood, etc.
 
Probably failed and was jumped out. Fisher seemed to have used a more marginally rated switch than others, maybe it was because they used a 2 section switch vs the single that others ran.
 
I have my Fisher 400 going into a Schiit Mani! I'm going to have to spend alot more to get a better sound! Not a tube phono preamp, but great nonetheless!
 
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