For the AK tester

Thanks for the info guys, the Stark is looking tempting. I found a bunch of info here http://www.tone-lizard.com/Stark.htm , found a copy of the users manual, settings for a s-load of tubes and a schematic. Seems to be a pretty highly regarded tester that maybe doesn't have the mythical rep of the Hickok's or TV-7 - that's a good thing!
 
No matter how good a tester is, if it isn't correctly calibrated and you don't know how to properly use it, then it is just a fancy door stop. Most of us audio nuts have plenty of expensive door stops already.
 
Just got handed the printout of the Seco PDF. I'll look it over as bedtime reading, ought to knock me right out.
 
Well yeah Thatch, maybe I won't be able to learn 'how to properly use it' and it'll be a doorstop/boatanchor/whatever, but I thought we had a reason to pursue a decent tester here?

Anyway, I personally would like something decent as I want a way to quantify, grade and match my rapidly increasing pile of glass. I'll keep looking.
 
Since I really only know how to use a punch card tester which involves chooing the correct card and sliding it in right side up till you hear a loud pop, this is going to be a real learning experience for me as well.
We do need testers and not just because of AK. It looks as though I really need to get this Seco working and learn how to use it because it tests tubes that the B&K doesn't, like 7591s and 7868s.
There doesn't seem to be anything that requires adjusting so I guess it is a matter of all the pieces being in spec for it to work correctly. I might need to use my variac to feed the correct AC into these testers. Glad I thought of that.
 
Billfort:

Living in Canada, as you do, should hopefully provide you the ability to find a Stark 9-66 in good condition at a reasonable price :D. Since I already own a Stark I am curious where you found info on the Stark you mentioned. I'm always looking for more info that I don't have already - unless it is from the boatanchor web site I previously mentioned in this thread. FYI: the Stark info at the boatanchor site is dated 1958 and does not cover tubes after 1958 so many popular tubes have no data (like 7591, 7868, etc.). Also, since the Stark is a Hickok design it may share some quirks the Hickok testers found in the US have. Namely, various anomalies in the circuitry requiring the use of ferrite beads attached to the wiring to correct so test readings are accurate and consistent. My understanding is that where to attach these beads and how many beads to attach in any one area is as much of an art as a science. I have not had any problems with my Stark, but I'm not a repair tech using my tester frequently which would reveal any anomalies.

As to this AK project, I would like to point out that the Tone Lounge site Billfort provided a link to is probably the best place online to read info on tube testers, other vintage repair gear, guitar amp repairs (which has a lot of relevance to audio since push/pull guitar amps are similar in construction/repair), etc.

Tube matching is a more invloved process than many realize. Although mutual or transconductance testers can be used to roughly measure a tube for matching purposes, the vast majority of these testers do not drive a tube to anything close to operating voltages. Most mutual conductance testers test at 150 volts or less (less is more comon, like 100 volts) - far below the typical operating volts of 250-400. Also, measuring/matching microhmos on a mutual conductance tester will not result in a matched tube or tubes as the case may be. Plate current measurement is the only way to truely match tubes and that requires uncommon equipment like a Tektronix Curve tracer, or a George Kay small tube tester (modern design that can be bought new for $$$$ - at least the last time I looked they were still made), etc. Plate current relates to the gain of the tube and matched gain is the key for tube matching. Even if a tube or tubes have equal readings in microhmos shown by a mutual conductance tester, the gain must be equal (or nearly so) for the tube or tubes to be truely matched. And, a tube or tubes with matched gain (or nearly so) are matched for audio purposes even if the micorohmos readings are not matched.

As I wrote before in this thread, a tube that tests good may not work in the actual circuit - a false positive. This is due to the limitations of most tube testers.

Undestand this, I'm not trying to throw cold water on this project or the AK'ers doing the work, spending the $$$, or donating stuff. I'm only trying to shed a little light on what's going on so that expectations do not run away from reality resulting in some disappointed members. Most tube lovers will be satisfied with the results from a mutual conductance tester for matching tubes, but others . . . :no: And, a tube may test perfectly, works great in many circuits, but then will not work in another circuit.

A properly operating and calibrated tester can help a lot - along with a bit of experience and keeping records of test procedures and results. I cannot stress enough keeping a record for both results and test procedures (like: warm-up time before beginning to test a tube because a cold tube may/will test differently compared to a tube that is at operating temperature, or the Life test where I count seconds to make sure I am testing tubes under equal conditions, etc., etc.) - consistency helps a lot.

'Nuff said, I'm gettin' off my soapbox, and I'm sure a few are saying about damn time :D

Good Luck :thmbsp:
 
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I know they are not worth what bidders are paying just to test the one or two tubes they have maybe 5 years from now.
 
I finished working on the B&K and proceeded to blow it up along with a nice 6V6. I didn't check everything properly and had turned everything up when it was on the variac. I didn't finish reading all the instructions and guess what? 25 volts on the filament does nasty things, and not just to the tube. I think I blew out the meter and ruined the machine. I now have a doorstop.

Next up, the Seco. Hopefully I have learned ny lesson. I got excited and just couldn't wait and screwed the pooch. Funny thing is I didn't even get mad, want to break things, didn't swear or yell. I think I am getting old. Admitting my stupity in public is pissing me off though, so maybe not that old.
 
Shit Thatch, this is not a good start. I will tread very lightly with these things and try to learn from your experience as I certainly would get mad, swear, yell and break stuff.

Topcat, thanks for the info and I really appreciate you posting your thoughts, if I get the Stark I’ll be bugging you extensively in the future :) . All the manuals and tube data sheets I got for the Stark came from http://bama.sbc.edu/ but they are in .djvu format so I had to install an IE plug-in to view them. I had a look at the 9-66 today and although it was advertised as an ‘A’ version and has the secondary additional tubes panel affixed to the top immediately above 'main' panel, there is no ‘A’ suffix on the model number printed on the panel. It looks to be in decent shape and the seller is a surplus scientific and test equipment dealer who says it works fine and will warranty its operation. I’m sure this warranty isn’t worth much though and although I feel a hell of a lot better about this than buying off epay, this is definitely a crap shoot and ‘working’ speaks nothing of calibration.

As to your comments about a tube tester not being able to distinguish a good tube from a bad tube well, all I can say that I never expected it would. I view a decent tester as a tool I would like to have on my bench, just like a VOM or a soldering station. I would no further expect a tester to tell me what a good tube is than I would rely on some test instrument to determine for me what a good amp is.

A good tube? Well, the tester might help determine if it’s working good enough to plug it into an amp/pre-amp but I’ll let my ears decide when listening to it in an actual circuit before deciding if it’s ‘good’.
 
RocknRoll: "I know they are not worth what bidders are paying just to test the one or two tubes they have maybe 5 years from now."

There is a lot of truth in your statement. Scarcity and the herd mentality can make people do strange things - like paying outrageous prices for something used infrequently.

Billfort: If you can pick-up the 9-66 from the seller I suggest you have him show you how it works because that's the best way to learn the machine itself and quirks it may have (and to see if it works before paying for it). Otherwise, read the operating instructions before trying to test tubes and use a tube that is not valuable or rare.

The boatanchor web site I refer to is the BAMA site you have a link to:
Boat
Anchor
Manauls
Archive
If you Google boatanchor the BAMA site is what comes up. There are two sites: the one you show a link to is the original site located at a university and has limited access (10 users at a time, as I recall) so accessing the site was very hard in the past (I spent many days of trying to access numerous times per day to eventually gain access). Because of limited access, some others set-up the boatanchor mirror site that is much easier to access (and folks using the mirror site instead of the main site probably explains why you were able to access the original site so easily). As you found, a quirk of the boatanchor site is the number of file formats used: pdf, djvu, jpeg (as I recall), and perhaps others. The number of file formats has to do with the university server and changes made by the IT staff over the years the BAMA site has been hosted there (free hosting site, so who can complain about changes made by IT in file formats). Likewise the mirror site has multiple file formats.

Ask the 9-66 seller to look on the tube chart for tube data. If the chart has info for the 7591 tube, but not the 7868 tube, then the 9-66 is one made in the middle of the production run (in years). If the tube chart shows the 7868 tube data, then that tester was made toward the end of the production run.

In general, IMHO I suggest you guys take some time to read and learn about tube testers. The Tone Lounge is a good start. A MUST have manual is the RCA Recieving Tube Manual that has many good articles in it, including how to use a tube tester - in addition to tube data. Look for one of the later RCA manuals because it will have tube info more useful for audio - say RC23 or newer. RC28, 29, or 30 would be best since the RC30 was the last printed. I own three RCA manuals.

Another excellent, must have book is "Getting the Most Out Of Vacuum Tubes" by Robert H. Tomer that is a relatively easy read for the most part. You can get a copy from Old Colony Sound Laboratory (google search). Old Colony has many other excellent tech manuals, speaker building, amp building, etc., etc.

Also, overuse of tube testers can harm tubes because the testers are stressing the tube in abnormal ways. In this situation (loaning tubes) the tubes will be tested a lot and their life span will be shortened. Another known procedure that shortens tube life is removing and re-installing them and loaning tubes will obviously result in a lot of R&R - pin sealing through the glass is compromised, chance to break the glass is increased, improper technique when installing/pulling (like excess wiggling - the tube should be pulled straight out with no wiggling, installation is a straight down easy push with pins lined-up with the holes in the socket a little lube helps like a very small dab of WD40/LPS1/etc., bent pins straightened carefully, etc., etc.).

A good tester's primary function is to show a tube is bad so that it is not installed resulting in damage to the component. The Shorts test is the first test done, and if a tube is shorted no other test functions are performed to avoid damaging the tester (or the audio component). So, a good Shorts test is a MUST. Read the Tone Lounge main tube tester page and then the Sencore tester page. A Shorts test that uses a flashing bulb may or may not be suitable. Best, is a Shorts test that shows the result on a scale instead of a flashing bulb.

The Tone Lounge also has a list of suggested tube testers and those tube testers are discussed in greater detail than some others.

Good Luck :thmbsp:
 
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