For you Detroiters (and those interested)

heathkit tv

Brillyint jeanyus
I've mentioned this is a previous post, but for those who may have not read that thread here it is again:

http://www.detroityes.com

Depicts the demolition of Detroit area buildings. Certainly not a glorification of same, but an honest record. The bulletin boards should make interesting fodder for you locals.

My interest is primarily in the car plants, especially the remains of the Packard facility. Any personal observations or updates most greatly appreciated. This also applies to any Hoosiers with info regarding Studebaker's factories.

Anthony
 
Anthony:

Thanks for posting that site. I've seen it before and it's fascinating in a shameful way. I slammed Detroit in another thread, and this is part of the reason why.
So much beauty and majesty left to rot and die, without a proper burial??? I've ben here 15+ years and the Michigan Central Train Station has been a skeleton on the horizon my entire time here.

Detroit is the 10th largest city in the country, but I doubt ANY other city has so much ruin left standing.
 
I have only been in the Detroit area for about 7 years. I used to live behind the Chrysler truck plant in Warren. Not the most purdy of places to live and raise a family.

I think part of Detroit's prob is there are just so many of the these empty factories left empty.

I agree some should be made into historical monuments but if they didn't tear any down thats all we would have left here.


I may be able to help with some info on Studebaker's. My wifes first husband is a direct descendant of Studebaker and they have their own newsletter and reunions. They are extremely proud of their heritage.

Grumpy
 
Being somewhat of a student of history in general and very much interested in important buildings and structures (especially factories) this site holds much fascination for me.

I lived thru the demolition of Pennsylvania Station in NYC. A Times reporter said it best upon that desecration, and I paraphrase "Society in the future will not be judged by what it has built but by what it has torn down"

It takes so much more effort to create something than to tear it down. Perfect example is what's going on in Iraq right now.

What's particularly galling is how Detroit, like South Bend, keep tearing down buildings to make room for projects that more likely than not never appear. This is even more horrendous when one considers all the empty EXISTING space. There's no reason for this other than pork barrel nonsense and outright political criminal acts.

South Bend tore down 100 year old structures of the Studebaker plant to make room for a jail complex that could've been placed most anywhere else. This was so stupid, they could have qualified for historical landmark status, been eligible for all sorts of federal restoration money, and become a tourist center of sorts.

Instead they opted for the quick buck. I say with tactics like this they WILL need more jail space as their economy gets driven deeper down the crapper.

Anthony
 
Thanks for the offer Grumpy. The Studebaker family is one of the most researched outside of the Mormon church.

I was in South Bend the spring before last to celebrate Stude's 150th anniversary. Just a crying shame of what "could've been"

A couple of years ago Buick or Cadillac were celebrating their 100th anniversary, excuse me but Studebaker celebrated the same thing back in 1953.

Getting back to Detroit, there's a Stude factory building there and it's still in decent shape. For those who don't know, Packard bought Stude (it was not a merger as so many believe) and the last Packard built Packards came from a now gone plant on Conner Ave. I understand that housing projects are now on the site (was a former Chrysler facility)

Anthony
 
Anthony, are you ever going to love this...

I used to work in the very factory your're speaking of (in a way). First, let me set a few details straight...

The factory (which actually spanned from Conner to Mack Avenue, and was also known as Conner Ave) was owned by a bodybuilding company called Briggs (same company made plumbing fixtures too). This dates from the time when car companies spent most of their resources building chassis and drivetrains, then "farmed out" the actual car bodies. This works OK for body-on-frame vehicles (like today's trucks) but doesn't work for more modern unibody construction (not invented by Chrysler, but they were the first of the big three to switch to this method in 1957).

Briggs Body Company had two main customers in the early 50s, Chrysler and Packard. My grandfather worked at his factory after WWII and built both types of car bodies. (During WWII this plant built airplane wings. His wife, my grandmother worked there at the time!). Although this plant is often associated with Packard, or confused with Packard's still-standing plant on East Grand Boulevard, it was never owned by Packard.

Chrysler, planning their switch to unibody constuction in '57, purchased Briggs Body Company in '55. They continued to produce Packard bodies for a limited time.

last Packard built Packards came from a now gone plant on Conner Ave.

By '57, the Conner plant became a Chrysler (only) stamping plant. This undoubtably was one reason Packard bought Studebaker.

By the mid-60s, Chrysler had built more modern stamping plants in Warren and Sterling Heights Michigan, and the Conner facility was used for smaller stampings like hood hinges, door hinges, etc. In 1974, Chrysler built a million sq. foot addition to the Conner plant and eventually closed-off the old "Briggs" section.

As Chrysler fell on hard times in the 80s, this plant fell into disuse, with only a skeleton staff doing little work, and mostly storage.

However in 1991, a new chapter was written. Chrysler began converting the new section of the plant for assembly of the Dodge Viper! The Viper remained here until 1995, when it was decided that the HUGE old plant, and million sq. foot addition would be better used as a new engine plant. The old section was torn down. The old building's bricks were actually ground-up and used in cement for the new building. (I saved a few)

Today this site is known as the Mack I engine plant. It produces the 4.7 Liter V8 engine used in the Grand Cherokee and Dodge Trucks. Another engine plant was built next-door in 1997, (Mack II) This plant builds the 3.7L V6 used in the Jeep Liberty.

I might add that this new plant looks like a manufacturing "park" with green lawns, trees and bright-white building. It has revitalized the surrounding area, and improved infastructure.

A picture of the old site can be found at this link:

Conner/Mack plant pictures

(The Jefferson Avenue plant is at the top, along with some history of that plant written by me)

Now, a little editorial from me... :rant: :rant:

The above story also shows one good example of the difference between American vs. Foreign producers, and why people who claim "It doesn't matter where a car comes from" are full of excrement.

During the 90s, while Chrysler was experiencing a huge turnarond, the company invested heavily in decaying, industrialized areas (like the example above, but also elsewhere in Detroit MI, Ohio and Indiana). The company did not abandon their workers and cities, but chose to build brand-new plants rather than build in a southern cornfield, (or overseas) thus avoiding higher wages, tougher environmental laws (and a higher number of minority workers, although that's a dirty secret that Toyota, Nissan and Honda would especially like you to forget). BTW, The Jeep Grand Cherokee built at one of these new urban factories has outscored the southern-built Mercedes ML-series SUV in quality rankings for every year either has been sold.

After the 1998 sellout of Chrysler, brought on primarily by former GM of Europe president lil' Bob Eaton, Chrysler's new owners have closed factory after factory, and spent billions investing in rual, southern cornfields (or out of the US entirely). Appearantly, even if this means losing money in the short-term (Such as ending prodcution of the Dodge Van built in Windsor, ON to sell less than 5000 Mercedes built vans per year). The results of this takeover to date?

$10 billion in Chrysler pre-takeover cash gone, and unaccounted for thanks to lax German financial disclosure laws.

$8 billion lawsuit pending against DaimlerChrysler by its largest shareholder.

$300 Million paid out out-of-court to Chrysler shareholders for fraud involving the Mercedes takeover.

30,000 US job losses with more on the way

2% of market share gone (so far)

Future engineering, reasearch and development of future Chrysler small, mid-size cars to be done by Mitsubshi (Japan's lowest quality automaker) not US workers.

etc. etc.

And for those of you who say, "Who gives a damn, I don't work in the auto industry, or live in an old city?" just remember that electronics, textile and workers in other now-dead industries likely said the same thing. With the dawn of the internet, service/information jobs can move to India with the click of a mouse. Will you keep ingoring the fact that those $150 Wal-Mart Chinese TVs, or $9000 Korean cars are often made in places where the workers are forced to work at the point of a gun, and the toxic waste stream dumps into the local river? It's amazng how much you can clean-up your image when you don't have a free press.

Not looking for protectionism, just an end to trade with those nations who refuse to end forced labor and enact minimum enviromental standards. Trust me, US manufacturers don't fear competiton from first-world nations.

[/rant]
 
Last edited:
Carmine, you're dead on regarding buying products from other countries that don't have the labor or pollution laws that we have here. It's not a level playing field and is unfair to our and their workers to say the least. Greedy fat cats in their boardrooms.

Regarding Briggs.....in the early 50's they were faced with ruinous inheritance taxes and forced to sell the family business. Packard arranged a long term lease at that plant and built not only their '55 and '56 bodies there but assembled the entire car as well. What I'm not clear on is exactly what the details of the arrangement was----did it consist of Chrysler supplying the bodies and Packard leasing a chuck of the plant for their (Packard) own assembly?

http://www.gsdi.org:8088/Text/pack-hist-1945.html

Scroll about half way down till you get to "Packard Loses Briggs - Its Body Building Component" I cite this as not the only source but a readily viewable one. It is correct and accurate as I've verified this with many other sources on Packard and Studebaker.

Conner was a horribly cramped facility (compared to Grand Ave anyway) and was not efficient at all. Trucks delivering parts often laid over more than a day waiting to unload as the docks were so inefficient. The assembly quality was pretty piss poor too and even if they ran double shifts the output couldn't possibly match what they could easily do at Grand.

Why the hell did they go with this plant instead of staying at Grand? Good question, and a very simplistic answer is they made a major mistake by thinking that a single story factory was more efficient than the old multi story plant. In this case nothing could be further from the truth.

Packard's purchase of Studebaker occurred before then moving into Conner (purchase 1954, Conner production '55 model year). After the melt down, Packards where built for 2 more years (57 and 58) in South Bend as not much more than gussied up Studebaker Presidents (with superchargers). They made the fugly Hawk coupe in 58 as well as a pretty hardtop 2 door.

The only things the President based cars shared with real Packards where styling cues, dash gauges, Clipper taillights and hubcaps. Gone were the big Packard V8s, Twin Ultramatic trans with pushbutton selector, torsion level suspension etc.

These cars were derisively called Pacakabakers, and while they were quite good on their own merits, bore no resemblance with the last great Packards. Such a miserable way to go. Recently there was an aborted attempt to bring Packard back but they ran out of money. America should be ashamed that this couldn't be pulled off......the Bugatti has returned, even the Maybach, why not Packard? Chicken shit entrepreneurs is why.

Anthony
 
Carmine, just remembered something. I've read in a couple of different places that Packard's Conner Ave plant had "received the fate it deserved and was razed in the 60's"

Do you know if perhaps a part of the complex was indeed torn down?

FYI, I saw your 2 yellow Chryslers, I've owned a '76 New Yorker Brougham (the equivalent to the then gone Imperial) and still own a police package '79 St. Regis

Used to maintain NY State Trooper cars in the late 70's and early 80's and then after moving to Calif began to supply stunt cars to movies etc. At one time I owned a fleet of Diplomats ambulances, paddy wagons, motorcycles etc. I had my own police department LOL

Give me a Thermoquad and I'll return a carburetor that works! ;-)

Anthony
 
Anthony,

Had a little talk with my grandfather about his days at Conner. Basically, everything gets confusing because several different plants were known as "Conner" (Instead of using cross streets! :mad: ).

Here's what it boils down to.. The older, 6 story Conner plant was owned by Briggs and built Packard and Chrysler bodies.

Another Conner plant a block further west, was a newer, smaller one-level plant also owned by Briggs. This is the factory that Packard bought and tried to build complete cars within. My grandfather said that even the "average guys" on the line knew that this would be a disaster, and couldn't understand James Nance's logic. He says this plant dates to sometime in the early 40s, and was considered much more modern (if smaller) than the older Briggs plant. This plant was torn down, a long time ago, and at least part of the site became a 50s era stripmall (which still exists, if mostly empty). There is a lot of empty land around it that looks like it was never further developed, so it's hard to say what came after it.

The other older 6-story Briggs/Chrysler plant was torn down in '95 and became an engine plant as I said earlier.

The EGB Packard plant still exists, and is partially occupied, although there are always rumors about teardowns.

Are you aware of the Packard Proving ground site in Shelby Township MI?
 
I've seen pics of the Packard Conner Ave. plant, & they look like they didn't have enuff room to change their minds, let alone produce cars. It is refreshing to see that I'm not the only one who remembers both Studebaker & Packard-a family who lived up the street when I was a kid in the '60s had a pointy-nose '50 4-dr Stude. But it is so sad to realise what we've lost & continue to lose in terms of diminished industrial might. IMHO, something got seriously out of whack in this country when we started making more money off of "money" than we did from making "things". -Sandy G.
 
Back
Top Bottom