Friday night shootout: AU-D11 II, AU-717 vs tube monoblocks

[ricohman]

I had some fun tonight comparing my AU-D11 II and AU-717 back to back with these.

The tube amps are Tube Technology Genesis 100w monoblocks. I used an Apt Holman preamp with the tone controls at nuetral. The tubes have all been upgraded from the factory offerings.
These things were not cheap when new at over 8k for the pair.
I used my Altec 19's for speakers. They are rated at 102db.
My 717 has been completely recapped a few years ago, the D11-II is as it left the factory.
I am going to keep this very short.
These two Sansui's are simply outstanding. Even my boy had trouble in my "blind" test. He is a musician and plays in jazz and concert bands (trombone).
The only real difference in sound is a bit more depth at lower volumes for the tube amps. I don't know exactly how to describe it but there seems to be "more" sound at the lower volumes. The Sansui's sound very similar to my uneducated ears and as far as bang for the buck goes, they win this test hands down. Especially the 717. Although the AU-D11 II sounds more like the tubes amps at lower volumes.
I'm new to tubes and I have two sets of monoblocks now. I have sold off a lot of SS gear lately but as you can tell I am keeping the Sansui gear. I didn't bother bringing my 517 into the fray as it hasn't been recapped and it's a bit tired.
I've heard others say that older Sansui gear has a "tube like" sound and I guess thats a fairly accurate description.

 

[EricMB]

Enjoyed that write up! And Thanks for making me feel good about spending a bunch today getting my 717 sounding sweet

They are amazing amps and are well deserving of their loyal following...

 

[nosirrah]

Thanks for the shootout. Interesting to get your observations.

 

[quadklipsh]

awesome , and heartening to learn ss sansuis could compete expensive tube amps.

 

[quadklipsh]

soon im gonna tell ya guys art audio maestro power amps compared to my sansuis

 

[Bigerik]

A couple if things I'd add to it. Having owned both the Sansuis, and the pre-amp in question, the D11 II needs to be recapped also. The 717 would not be as close if the match was equal. Secondly, the pre-amp was holding the tube amps back. You'll need to get a more equal pre-amp to get the best out of those lovely mono blocks of yours.

Btw, an AU D11 II running right and restored is simply one of the finest integrated amps to leave Japan.

 

[Hyperion]

Thank you for the shootout comments ricohman - always nice to read these. (especially when one of the contestants is one of my favourites).

A couple if things I'd add to it. Having owned both the Sansuis, and the pre-amp in question, the D11 II needs to be recapped also. The 717 would not be as close if the match was equal. Secondly, the pre-amp was holding the tube amps back. You'll need to get a more equal pre-amp to get the best out of those lovely mono blocks of yours.

It does :yes:

Btw, an AU D11 II running right and restored is simply one of the finest integrated amps to leave Japan.

Agree 100%, people who have not heard one, don't know what they are missing.

 

[Zekeman]

This is great gents!

I have done this same test with Sansui and other tube gear; Dynaco ST-70 and Sansui 1000A. We also tested using an A-B switch (using exact same source material switching in real time) and a 771 receiver, among other integrateds.....The attendees had a hard time distinguishing the Dynaco from the 771!!

My current go-to rig, for the reasons you cite with your test and my own personal research, is an AU-7900 preamp into a modified 1000A (using the power amp secion only to receive the pre from the 7900).....This combination, to my ears, beat both my D11II and my 717 (both completely restored).

This old Sansui gear sounds fantastic.

Great thread.

BTW those Genesis monoblocks are probably the best looking monoblocks I have ever seen...

 

[Cactus Bob]

Great thread. When I'm not running my tube amps with my high efficiency speakers I always gravitate towards the Sansui's. Whether it be a 2000x, 9090db or a AU717. They have that warm sound unlike the Kenwoods & Pioneers in my corral.

Zekeman, I'll have to try my 771 soon. Very nice sounding receivers.

 

[Zekeman]

I'd be interested in what your impressions are....

 

[Hyperion]

<snip>...

This old Sansui gear sounds fantastic.

Great thread.

BTW those Genesis monoblocks are probably the best looking monoblocks I have ever seen...

I agree those monoblocks look FANTASTIC

 

[ricohman]

A couple if things I'd add to it. Having owned both the Sansuis, and the pre-amp in question, the D11 II needs to be recapped also. The 717 would not be as close if the match was equal. Secondly, the pre-amp was holding the tube amps back. You'll need to get a more equal pre-amp to get the best out of those lovely mono blocks of yours.

Btw, an AU D11 II running right and restored is simply one of the finest integrated amps to leave Japan.

I am currently recapping my Accuphase C200 pre so the Apt Homan is what I had. Although the Accuphase is highly regarded, I find the Apt very nuetral but you are right that it is a controversial piece.
The D11 II has been working fine since I brought it home. I do know that it would benefit from a recap but until it stops working I won't be digging inside it anytime soon. And its my favorite Sansui by far.
Any Canucks want a recap project?

 

[ricohman]

I agree those monoblocks look FANTASTIC

Made in England.
One day I am going to find out how they landed in the middle of nowhere (Saskatchewan).

 

[Bigerik]

I am currently recapping my Accuphase C200 pre so the Apt Homan is what I had. Although the Accuphase is highly regarded, I find the Apt very nuetral but you are right that it is a controversial piece.
The D11 II has been working fine since I brought it home. I do know that it would benefit from a recap but unitl it stops working I won't be digging inside it anytime soon. And its my favorite Sansui by far.
Any Canucks want a recap project?

On an AU-D11 II? No way. Those things go wrong when you even take the lid off and look inside. I'm willing to bet big bucks that what you are hearing right now is nowhere even close to what it can sound like. There is not a fussier integrated amp anywhere. Or one more likely to be out of spec. It is the Italian sports car of the Japanese amplifier world.

 

[ricohman]

On an AU-D11 II? No way. Those things go wrong when you even take the lid off and look inside. I'm willing to bet big bucks that what you are hearing right now is nowhere even close to what it can sound like. There is not a fussier integrated amp anywhere. Or one more likely to be out of spec. It is the Italian sports car of the Japanese amplifier world.

Yes, I have fussed over this amp. Adjusting it was/is a pain. I had to solder a vertical board connection in order to begin the inspection as it was not stable.
But it has held it adjustments for over 2 years and it's running strong.
I do not want to recap this beauty and I may end up shipping it somewhere for that.
But not yet.

 

[ghamilton]

Thats a beautiful D-11 II ! :yes:
It would be interesting to compair my (recapped) 919 to it after EW recapped & fine-tuned yours. I used a lot of Selmic II caps (silk caps) in the pre & phono sections. It's absolutely beautiful sounding with a tube-like softness.:yes:

 

[shojam]

A couple if things I'd add to it. Having owned both the Sansuis, and the pre-amp in question, the D11 II needs to be recapped also. The 717 would not be as close if the match was equal. Secondly, the pre-amp was holding the tube amps back. You'll need to get a more equal pre-amp to get the best out of those lovely mono blocks of yours.

Btw, an AU D11 II running right and restored is simply one of the finest integrated amps to leave Japan.

Yes you are right. D 11 Needed to be recapped for comparison. I own

A couple if things I'd add to it. Having owned both the Sansuis, and the pre-amp in question, the D11 II needs to be recapped also. The 717 would not be as close if the match was equal. Secondly, the pre-amp was holding the tube amps back. You'll need to get a more equal pre-amp to get the best out of those lovely mono blocks of yours.

Btw, an AU D11 II running right and restored is simply one of the finest integrated amps to leave Japan.

Yes my dear Bigerik right you are... Without recapping it was an unfair contest. I used few Sansui amps during past 15 years or so. I need to ask a question from you as it appears you are the sansui expert here... I used mostly japanese versions including AU-660, AU 666, AU 707 (717), AU D-707(819), AU-D607 G Extra, AU- D707F Extra(D9) and AU-D907X Decade.. My question is.... What is the international equivalent model for AU-D907X Decade? and which amp is the best sansui listed above?