Hello, few years ago I bought a speaker system by the name of Frox Sat. 6 and are also labeled subwoofer. The only connections for all of them are optical. It has two large speakers that might weight about 50 lbs. each and 4ea. satellite speakers. Each satellite speaker has what appears to be a heat sink attached to the back, a micro switch for setting it up to full/sub., bi, mono, A/B. The only thing I have found on the internet is a company back in 1992 that built systems for home theater. I was just wondering if anybody has any knowledge of these speakers.Any information will be appreciated.
Frox Optical Speaker System
- Thread starter OldStuff
- Start date
Hey guys, no reply does not suprise me. When I bought these speakers, the guy I bought them from told me a story about how Bose built these as a proto type. If my memory serves me right , I believe he said that he was not sure if they ever built another set. I have owned a few speaker systems and I have rebuilt the crossovers for them and usually, they are quite simple. I just opened the back of one of the satillite speakers and truthfully, I have never seen anything like it! I need to figure out how to send you pictures, because I want to be able to share this with you. The satillite has a 6" x 6" speaker and a 3.5" x 4.5" tweeter. This thing has two circuit boards, one 9" x 5.5" and another stacked on top of it is 5.5" x 4.5" circuit board. The top one has four IC's, looks like 2ea. proms, and one of those square (brains) you find on the mother board of a computer. It has many capacitors, resisters, etc., and two large 15,000uf 50v capacitors. I have never seen anything like this myself. If anybody knows what it is I'm looking at please let me know. Also, if you can help me send pictures, I would appreciate it. Thanks!
Ok, I just looked at the pictures and on the top circuit board it says "Frox Dac board a/d/s/ inc. 9/19/91. So, I'm pretty sure this thing had to of been mass produced. So, if I'm guessing right each satillite speaker has its own built in DAC? I forgot to say that each one also has a large (what appears) to be a transformer marked: Trans-scan TS-B made in U.S.A.. An awful lot of electronics for a small speaker.
smoke-libr8r
Active Member
Here is an old thread where soundmotor mentions the Frox cabinets... http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-sordid-tale-of-the-deltalab-m1.140043/
soundmotor
super modified
This is how I recall it and it may be error fraught -
The Frox project started in ~1990 and stands for Frog Experimental as the ID was done by Hartmut Esslinger's firm Frog Design (Palo Alto, CA). The rest was wholly developed by a/d/s/. Frox was meant to push the envelope as well as provide a bridge to the many different paths the consumer AV market was heading. The term "convergence" was beginning to be uttered, whole house AV was gaining traction, multimedia computer systems were emerging, home theater & "cocooning" gaining prominence and so on. A heady and somewhat confusing time as to what exactly was happening. Frox would provide a tech platform that a/d/s/ could built out from to meet the market changes. A very good idea.
Into this Frox emerged. The satellites were based around the SAT6 & subwoofer woofer & tweeter as well as the existing SUB10 subwoofer. The sats got a new amplifier package (2x100W if memory serves) along with an active crossover & front-end D/A. IIRC the crossover is analog. The concept did go very far as Godehard Gunther was on the bubble then and shortly afterwards he was sidelined by the new investment group. He left shortly after that. Some elements lived on from Frox though. The new SUB10 & SUB12 took their ID cues from the Frox sub as did the new whole house components (PH6 & SC6). A portable music system called Campus was done within the same time frame.
Frox paralleled intros by Meridian and was definitely a cool concept. Running a Toslink out to the speakers eliminated many issues but it was not to be. They came into being at a time when they directly competed with core business needs so there was some animosity towards them internally. Further, a/d/s/ engineering was unfairly tasked with development. In many ways it was Star Trekking and came down on the heads of 1-2 people who were also tasked with everything else as well. There were plans to bring in a Frox team but after Godehard left Frox was fed to the lions. The sat cabinets were built out under the DeltaLab name to get rid of the pile in the warehouse and most of the electronics for them scrapped. It is a good amp though and many ended up with the digital front-end scrapped and used as a basic stereo amp. I still have a couple kicking around in the vault. If yours work they are likely some of the last made, virtually handbuilt. There cannot have been more than a few sets than made it out the door.
The Frox project started in ~1990 and stands for Frog Experimental as the ID was done by Hartmut Esslinger's firm Frog Design (Palo Alto, CA). The rest was wholly developed by a/d/s/. Frox was meant to push the envelope as well as provide a bridge to the many different paths the consumer AV market was heading. The term "convergence" was beginning to be uttered, whole house AV was gaining traction, multimedia computer systems were emerging, home theater & "cocooning" gaining prominence and so on. A heady and somewhat confusing time as to what exactly was happening. Frox would provide a tech platform that a/d/s/ could built out from to meet the market changes. A very good idea.
Into this Frox emerged. The satellites were based around the SAT6 & subwoofer woofer & tweeter as well as the existing SUB10 subwoofer. The sats got a new amplifier package (2x100W if memory serves) along with an active crossover & front-end D/A. IIRC the crossover is analog. The concept did go very far as Godehard Gunther was on the bubble then and shortly afterwards he was sidelined by the new investment group. He left shortly after that. Some elements lived on from Frox though. The new SUB10 & SUB12 took their ID cues from the Frox sub as did the new whole house components (PH6 & SC6). A portable music system called Campus was done within the same time frame.
Frox paralleled intros by Meridian and was definitely a cool concept. Running a Toslink out to the speakers eliminated many issues but it was not to be. They came into being at a time when they directly competed with core business needs so there was some animosity towards them internally. Further, a/d/s/ engineering was unfairly tasked with development. In many ways it was Star Trekking and came down on the heads of 1-2 people who were also tasked with everything else as well. There were plans to bring in a Frox team but after Godehard left Frox was fed to the lions. The sat cabinets were built out under the DeltaLab name to get rid of the pile in the warehouse and most of the electronics for them scrapped. It is a good amp though and many ended up with the digital front-end scrapped and used as a basic stereo amp. I still have a couple kicking around in the vault. If yours work they are likely some of the last made, virtually handbuilt. There cannot have been more than a few sets than made it out the door.
soundmotor
super modified
As an aside, the 1-2 engineers crushed under Frox did not include me. My involvement with the aftermath came after the project was scrapped.
smoke-libr8r
Active Member
soundmotor: Thanks for your post. I love hearing the stories behind the products (especially the rare ones).
How many active speaker systems did ADS make? There are the 2002, the PA1 add-ons, and now the Frox Sat6. Were there any others (not counting the powered subs & the SS2300/PB1200)?
How many active speaker systems did ADS make? There are the 2002, the PA1 add-ons, and now the Frox Sat6. Were there any others (not counting the powered subs & the SS2300/PB1200)?
Good morning gentlemen,
First off I want to thank soundmotor for taking the time to enlighten me with his information. To be honest, I am amazed that the information that the guy who sold them to me was fairly accurate (although built by another company). I also wish to be honest and tell you guys that my knowledge of speakers in general is very limited (in case you haven't already figured that out). It does appear to me that I did come to the right place. I just tried to add some pictures, I hope they came out all right. I still have one picture that shows the bottom circuit board.
First off I want to thank soundmotor for taking the time to enlighten me with his information. To be honest, I am amazed that the information that the guy who sold them to me was fairly accurate (although built by another company). I also wish to be honest and tell you guys that my knowledge of speakers in general is very limited (in case you haven't already figured that out). It does appear to me that I did come to the right place. I just tried to add some pictures, I hope they came out all right. I still have one picture that shows the bottom circuit board.
Geez, I hope I don't get clobbered for sending such big pictures! Sorry, about that. The one difference that I have noticed, is that the speakers I have only have an input jack for what appears to be an optical connector. My home theater amp. only has connections for three. I haven't even tried listening to them yet because I think I have only one cable and I need to find out where I put it. After seeing all the electronics in this little speaker, I'm curious to see what the larger speaker has inside it. In these pictures you can't see the transformer, it's at the bottom covered up by the insulation. It is also quite large, about 4.5" x 3" x 2" is my guess. Also, you can see the large heat sink on the back. Looks like an MBG with a V-8 stuffed in it.
smoke-libr8r
Active Member
Thanks for posting the pictures. Would it be possible to post some close-ups of the input panels?
I noticed that one of the chips on the DAC board is labeled "frox". Very interesting... I didn't realize that Frox went this deep into the engineering.
soundmotor
super modified
P1000 biamp modules for the L1530/L2030. Only a couple sets made for evaluation, one set stolen at Chicago CES in early 80s. They were complete w/graphics and from the pics looked ready to go. There were the 2001s too; the precursor to the 2002 system w/ 4-channel amp biamping a set of L200 sized speakers.
soundmotor
super modified
The Burr-Brown DAC & filter set was da shit at the time; 18-bit/8X oversampling, still no slouch.
@OldStuff , unfortunately I have no idea how to run those. I think you have to address the R & L for each speaker with the switch. If there is a Toslink input and output you should be able to daisy chain them and get proper channel configuration. If not you could use a splitter and feed them in parallel. You will also need a Toslink out source with variable output. AFAIK, no one makes an analog input to Toslink out black box. Hopefully someone else will ring in with that info -
@OldStuff , unfortunately I have no idea how to run those. I think you have to address the R & L for each speaker with the switch. If there is a Toslink input and output you should be able to daisy chain them and get proper channel configuration. If not you could use a splitter and feed them in parallel. You will also need a Toslink out source with variable output. AFAIK, no one makes an analog input to Toslink out black box. Hopefully someone else will ring in with that info -
soundmotor
super modified
Keep in mind at this point in time I could have gotten a soundmotor chip spun up. The ASIC* business was booming and every chip mill offered this.
*Application Specific Integrated Circuit
I really think it's cool that some of you are interested in this system. To me it's sorta like a barn find old car. I also think it's great that I'm able to get so much information on it. Like I said on my prior post, my knowledge is very limited about this system. Smoke-libr8r said he was interested in more pictures, I am not sure if my method of acquiring pictures is correct, but they are showing up. So, what ever pictures you guys would like to see, I will try to get for you. What I thought was interesting was that the large chip on the board also had
'Frox" printed on it. Who ever built this system obviously put some time in engineering it as well as a few dollars. The system I have seems to be complete with four satellites and two subwoofers. I will try to take some close-up pictures of the back of the speaker. Right now I'm having a problem taking the back of the subwoofer off without scaring it.
'Frox" printed on it. Who ever built this system obviously put some time in engineering it as well as a few dollars. The system I have seems to be complete with four satellites and two subwoofers. I will try to take some close-up pictures of the back of the speaker. Right now I'm having a problem taking the back of the subwoofer off without scaring it.
Attachments
swechsler
Frog Whisperer
I was going to suggest looking for a used Meridian digital preamp, but apparently they use RJ45 connectors for outputs. The Toslink connectors on your receiver will not be a good solution, likely you have at most one Toslink output, and its level will not be adjustable. I did find a few analog to digital adapters on eBay. They're not too expensive. Here's one, although it does ship from China. Here's a similar model available from Amazon (pictured below). To use these effectively, you will need a receiver/amplifier with preamp outputs for all channels (or just a preamp - since these speakers are all active, you won't actually be using the internal amps of your existing equipment). You will either need one of these for each speaker, or combine each of these with a pair of speakers and a Toslink splitter, see second picture (that's assuming that the speaker's capable of choosing which channel - left or right - it receives. That's not clear from the pics whether that's possible, you will have to do some testing).
I just noticed the serial number: 01362. Unless they serialized them randomly, it would appear they made quite a few. From prior post it seems like there may have been a lot of unfinished parts. I am interested in firing up this system, but with an amp. that only has 3ea. connections. I will need your help. I will also need to find out if my amp. has volume control over the three connections.
cpt_paranoia
Addicted Member
Given that there are a couple of Lattice Semi GALs next to it, I'm guessing that labelled device is a mask ROM DSP, rather than a logic ASIC. Either that or they screwed up the ASIC design, and had to add some GALs to sort it out...
Mask ROM processors are a bit cheaper than full or semi-custom ASICs (which I was designing at the time).
Sechster, I just saw your post when I finished my last post. Probably the quickest way to find out what works is to find my one and only optical cable and then try it out. I do understand the concept of each speaker being independently amplified, that the DAC and amplifier on my receiver will not be used (at least I think that's correct). I just need to find out if the receiver will apply volume control.
