Further down the ladder DAC rabbit hole

[N8Nagel]

So a while back I picked up a Pioneer PD-M910 at a thrift store a while back with a busted laser and finally got it operational... When I hooked it up I thought I was crazy at first, but it really did seem like there was better bass, a more dynamic sound if you will, than what I'd been using before. Some research indicates that this uses Burr-Brown PCM58P-K ladder DACs, so I started reading

So I started looking for a player with the Philips TDA1543, or a Burr-Brown PCM1702 or 1704 as those seem to be "crowd favorite" ladder DACs.

Today after a nice meet up at a local high end audio store I stopped by to see a Craigslist seller and walked away with an Adcom GCD-700 looking pretty immaculate for a price that I am embarrassed to relate. Now I think the reason that this didn't sell is that the Dutch site that has the master DAC list doesn't list this model, but I'm guessing that this has PCM1702s.

a) can anyone confirm? I popped the top and the carousel mechanism obscures the DAC chips and it does not appear easy to disassemble.

b) Apparently the GDA-700 DAC only introduced HDCD decoding to Adcom's line. Anyone know if the GCD-700 has it as well? I'm guessing no as I do not see an indicator on the display.

I'd just like to know what I'm actually listening to before I start faking myself out thinking I have something great if I don't.

 

[BigElCat]

I share that fear now, bro.

Ain't never owned any Adcom stuff.

 

[N8Nagel]

Figured it out. Power up with cover off, eject tray. They are PCM1702s.

 

[BigElCat]

My DAC has the PCM 1796.

That has to be 94 rungs up ?

 

[N8Nagel]

My DAC has the PCM 1796.

That has to be 94 rungs up ?

Well, that's the thing... it's a completely different architecture.

I don't know if I've actually heard a R-2R ladder DAC in the past 2 decades, and the gear I had back then wasn't good enough for me to know the difference when everything went to delta sigma. I know I've had nothing but delta sigma for the last very long while, as I still have the CDP I bought new back around Y2K, and that one is delta sigma.

I'm going to let myself get used to this and then try to A/B this with a FLAC rip through my USB DAC (I think that's actually a PCM1794) just to see if I'm missing any mojo.

Obviously this is not at all scientific as the actual implementations of the chips matter just as much as the DAC chip itself. But it's cheap amusement... cost me as much as a fair to middlin' bottle of booze so there you go.

 

[xero-D-hero]

Both the PCM58 & PCM1702 are very good Redbook DACs from BurrBrown,by many account they're only surpassed by the BB PCM63.

That Philips TDA1543 is'nt their best liked DAC,for Philips stuff you really wanna be looking for gear w/the the TDA1541 chips.
The TDA1543 is popular with modders as they're easy to convert to NOS,but in OE configuration the TDA1541 is the one to have.

I have a couple of TDA1541 CDP's (CDB-460 & CDB-470) and a couple of TDA1543 CDP's (CDB-500 & CDB-502).
The later TDA1543 players sound pretty dang good,but the former TDA1541 players sound GREAT.

I just have the TDA1543 players as those are what I had "back in the day".

As for the Adcom DACs I'd personally take the GDA-600 over the GDA-700.

Or better yet I'd suggest looking into the Parasound D/AC series.

I have two D/AC-1000 and they sound exquisite (2x PCM63P-J).
Best part about these is they can be upgraded/modded to handle 24/96 material pretty easily (kits for that on the 'bay).

I also have a Kenwood CDP (DP-5020) with 2x BB PCM1702 and an Onkyo with 2x BB PCM61P (DX-1400).

Anyhow,enjoy exploring the vintage DAC rabbit-hole,just know that you're not alone,LOL.



Bret P.

 

[N8Nagel]

As for the Adcom DACs I'd personally take the GDA-600 over the GDA-700.

Are you referring to DAC only or CD players?

What I purchased was a 6 disc carousel GCD-700, not a DAC only GDA-700. Both of those have PCM1702 DACs according to audioclassics.nl (for the DAC) or my eyeballs (for the changer). I would rather have the GDA-700 as my interest in it is primarily the DAC section, I can always find a transport with a digital output, plus it appears that that model DAC adds HDCD decoding which I don't think the changer has. However, for the price, I took the GCD-700 and said thank you.

Now the GCD-600 6 disc changer looks like the one I bought but has the TDA1541. The GDA-600 DAC only uses 2x PCM63P-J.

Hence my question - are you saying you prefer a TDA1541 or a PCM63 based DAC? (please don't say "you need to find both" because this could get spendy)

There actually is a GCD-600 on Craigslist as well, although it's significantly more expensive than the GCD-700 I picked up. Didn't see any GDA-anything.

 

[BigElCat]

Both the PCM58 & PCM1702 are very good Redbook DACs from BurrBrown,by many account they're only surpassed by the BB PCM63.

Or better yet I'd suggest looking into the Parasound D/AC series.

I have two D/AC-1000 and they sound exquisite (2x PCM63P-J).
Best part about these is they can be upgraded/modded to handle 24/96 material pretty easily (kits for that on the 'bay).

Dude. Those match my primary system.

Do you really think they'd sound better than my MusicHall 25.3 with a PCM 1796 ?

I have a Singxer xmos spdif. That would update the old Parasounds. I'm mostly into Redbook.

 

[N8Nagel]

wait, didn't you just say yesterday that you feared following me down the rabbit hole?

 

[xero-D-hero]

Are you referring to DAC only or CD players?

DAC only.
The only reason I mentioned the Adcom GDA's is you had mentioned the GDA-700 in passing so I kinda slipped that GDA comment in there.
Sorry if that was a bit off topic and confused things a bit...

The GDA-600 DAC only uses 2x PCM63P-J

Only uses 2x PCM63P-J,,, ...
PCM63P is right at the top of the foodchain for that era of BB DACs.
So yeah I guess I'd be willing take those over the PCM1702 myself,be it in a CDP -or- DAC.
Though the difference between 'em is pretty slim by most accounts,and always open for debate.

Plus I already have a CDP w/2x PCM1702 (that Kenwood DP-5020 I mentioned).
And I generally dont mess with multi-disc players at all,but that's just a personal preference of mine.

To be honest I dont covet the GDA-700 (or it's PCM1702 DACs) as I dont care about HDCD at all.
Which is why I said I'd prefer the more "mod friendly" GDA-600 (w/PCM63 DACs).

Dude. Those match my primary system.

I'm a major fan of the Parasound D/AC series.
(which also have HDCD in the D/AC-1100HD & D/AC-1600HD if HDCD is a deal breaker).

Like I said,I like the Parasound D/AC-1000 as it can be easily upgraded to handle 24/96 files.
Kits for such are easily sourced (on Ebay et-al) and make it a pretty simple mod.
Then you can go ahead and upgrade the PCM63P-J DAC's to PCM63P-K DAC's.
And then one can start some Op-Amp rolling to really get the last little bit outta those units.

Also,look at the power supply sections of the Parasound D/AC's vs. those Adcom DAC's or any of these CDPs.

To me it's a case of the D/AC-1000 being "just the right fit" for my needs,now the next guy who knows what he'll prefer ?

And that's despite having a whole rack enclosure packed full of Adcom gear (GTP-502/GFA-555 MkI/GFS-600/ACE-515).
So it would make sense to stuff an Adcom DAC in there as well,but I just prefer the D/AC-1000 so much more.
My first D/AC-1000 is a permanent part of my current headphone/nearfield rig,and it made me a believer in those units.
Also I got both of my D/AC-1000's for less that one typically finds the either of those Adcom DAC's selling for.

Anyhow I had considered tracking down a GCD-575 with the TDA1541 DAC for that Adcom rack enclosure.
Instead I went with a brand spanking new Yamaha CD-S300RK CDP instead (BB PCM1780).
I just dont trust the Sony KSS transport in the GCD-575 all that much,so I'd hafta find one really cheap to consider picking one of those up.

The Parasound D/AC-1000 is used for the HTPC computer that's at the top of that Adcom rack enclosure rig.
I figured if I ever get any higher res CD's I'd just use the Yamaha and it's PCM1780 DAC via the analog outs.

Do you really think they'd sound better than my MusicHall 25.3 with a PCM 1796 ?

I honestly could'nt say for sure as I've never heard that MusicHall DAC,,,sorry...
But if vintage R2R ladder DACs are an interest to you,those Parasound D/AC are great units to consider.
And they can be had very reasonably if one is patient & shops wisely.

I have a Singxer xmos spdif. That would update the old Parasounds. I'm mostly into Redbook.

IMO the old Parasound D/AC series are very good w/redbook.
Chock full of those legendary Rubycon black gates to boot.
Excellent "bang for the buck",,,yeah I hate those sorta cliche's too,,,but WTH...

Anyhow,I digress. LOL

Bret P.

 

[N8Nagel]

(GDA-600 DAC) Only uses 2x PCM63P-J,,, ...
PCM63P is right at the top of the foodchain for that era of BB DACs.
So yeah I guess I'd be willing take those over the PCM1702 myself,be it in a CDP -or- DAC.
Though the difference between 'em is pretty slim by most accounts,and always open for debate.

phrasing I guess... what I meant was the DAC only unit, known as the GDA-600, uses 2x PCM63P-J. Whereas the 5-disc carousel player, known as the GCD-600, you would think from Adcom's numbering system would use the same DAC chips, but they actually used a Philips TDA1541 which is also a chip that people seem to like... hence my question.

Irrelevant at the moment as I can't seem to find either a TDA1541 or PCM63 based player or DAC cheaply, and I am not in a position where I can afford to do so expensively just to satisfy some curiosity.

Anyway, here's how this all went down. I recently hooked up a Pioneer PD-M910 (PCM58P-K) and it sounded great. Noticeably better than the exact same system with a Yamaha CD-X2. (Rest of system is Dynaco PAT-4/ST-120/KLH Twenty Three)

Went to a little get together and spent some time listening to some high end DAC/streamer which was hooked to a Line Magnetic SET integrated amp and some DeVore Gibbon X speakers

Got home and swapped in the Adcom CDP

Now my system sounds like (expletive deleted)

but because I was dumb and did things in the order I did I don't know whether I like the Pio better than the Adcom or if my ears got ruined by going to get-together... If I were SMART I would have listened to one of the exact same discs on the Pio that I did before going to the G2G to recalibrate my expectations, but I didn't.