Garrard 301/401 owners club!

Hey folks, great idea. I recently obtained a 401 and built myself a plywood plinth and mounted a 12" cherry tonearm from Tonearm Audio. Have a Denon 103R cart on it. Pretty fantastic. Here are a couple of pics below.

On the Kokomo kit, I understand the Mk2 version does away with the ceramic ball and has a floating oil "hydraulic" method. I've ordered one to check it out, after considering the other version with the bronze ball, which is certainly less expensive, but does not include the heavy bronze thrust plate. I figure it's reversible, so I will experiment with it. Will keep you posted on progress once it arrives and gets installed and played for a while.

Cheers

thanks for the pics! the table looks great. please let us know what you think of the kokomo bearing, maybe I will email them and see what they say about the claims of wear and the new design. I would love to see the pics of the new bearing design if you dont mind posting them. thanks!
 
Sure thing

Havent received it yet, but will report on Kokomo change. I have a minor leak of oil from my original bearing, so I haven't wanted to open it yet to inspect the wear, fearing it would get worse without a new gasket. But I'm sure this will make a big difference.
 
kokomo kit update...

thanks for the pics! the table looks great. please let us know what you think of the kokomo bearing, maybe I will email them and see what they say about the claims of wear and the new design. I would love to see the pics of the new bearing design if you dont mind posting them. thanks!

Hi there, just wanted to let you know I received the new kokomo bearing and installed it this afternoon. I haven't listened to it enough to properly evaluate the difference, but it certainly makes a big difference indeed. My immediate reaction was that the music sounded "brighter," as if the treble had opened up a good deal. I played a few lp's that I'm very familiar with, to try to get a better sense of it. Tomorrow I'll do some serious listening when I can focus on it more and report back.

On the design of the bearing itself, I was incorrect to say I thought it had done away with the ceramic ball bearing in the thrust plate. The new version still has a ceramic ball, but now this is covered by a Delrin pad, which rides flat against the spindle, basically forming a barrier to direct contact with the ceramic. Thus, there should be no undue wear damage against the spindle. And since the Delrin pad essentially "floats" in oil between the ball and the spindle, the platter freely rotates with seemingly no friction. I tested the platter by spinning it by hand with the motor and brake disengaged before playing any records, and it rotated for more than three minutes. I eventually stopped it from boredom and being anxious to play music, but I would love to time this again until it stopped on its own.

What is interesting here is that the Delrin pad is similar to the bearing thrust pad in a Thorens 160, so I can understand that this should work well and have a good degree of longevity. Additionally, it adds a material similarity to the original Garrard bearing thrust, which uses sintered bronze on top of a plastic pad (probably Delrin or similar, the two seem identical in consistency). The kokomo's manufacturer states that the new version has more of the signature Garrard sound, and utilizes a variation on the original thrust pad design. I take this to mean that the introduction of this material is intended to adhere more closely to the Garrard design which isolates the bottom plate from the spindle with the plastic part. He does not mention that it simultaneously addresses the concern regarding wear on the spindle caused by the ceramic ball, understandably so, since this would be an admission that the kokomo actually causes such wear.

Frankly, now that I've taken my bearing apart and installed the new one, I'm a bit skeptical about the whole controversy about wear on the spindle. I noticed that my original bronze bearing, which was not terribly worn itself, had indeed made a tiny circular mark on the spindle. Conceptually, the bronze is supposed to wear before the steel does, since it is softer, but nonetheless there is some evidence of friction on the spindle. Unless the bearing is run without proper lubrication, the degree of such wear should be minimal, but some should be expected regardless of materials. So, I wonder if perhaps the "damage" reported by others who used the kokomo was in fact already present on their spindles, but unnoticed when they installed the upgrade? Too, an improper amount of lubricant, or worse yet, the introduction of some other loose debris into the bearing during installation (stray fibers from steel wool, perhaps? the things I read about how people try to clean out their bearings, scary...) would certainly account for damage.

I guess this issue has me scratching my head a bit, since so many others do their own bearing upgrades (to Thorens and RekoKut decks) with a ceramic ball bearing, or even steel ones, and nobody reports any damage caused by them. Why would this be the case with one type of upgrade and not be true with all the others?

Anyway, all of this seems to be a moot point, since now the kokomo kit does not create direct contact between ceramic ball and spindle. One thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned in all the reviews, though, is the fact that the thrust pad is integrated into a very heavy bronze plate. This bronze plate itself must add something to the stability of the bearing and it's capacity to rotate freely. The original bronze plate is very thin by comparison, and presumably would not do as good a job at isolating the spindle and platter from vibration.

Sorry for the overly-long commentary here, but in sum, this new bearing seems a pretty significant upgrade to me.

Cheers!
 
Hi there, just wanted to let you know I received the new kokomo bearing and installed it this afternoon. I haven't listened to it enough to properly evaluate the difference, but it certainly makes a big difference indeed. My immediate reaction was that the music sounded "brighter," as if the treble had opened up a good deal. I played a few lp's that I'm very familiar with, to try to get a better sense of it. Tomorrow I'll do some serious listening when I can focus on it more and report back.

On the design of the bearing itself, I was incorrect to say I thought it had done away with the ceramic ball bearing in the thrust plate. The new version still has a ceramic ball, but now this is covered by a Delrin pad, which rides flat against the spindle, basically forming a barrier to direct contact with the ceramic. Thus, there should be no undue wear damage against the spindle. And since the Delrin pad essentially "floats" in oil between the ball and the spindle, the platter freely rotates with seemingly no friction. I tested the platter by spinning it by hand with the motor and brake disengaged before playing any records, and it rotated for more than three minutes. I eventually stopped it from boredom and being anxious to play music, but I would love to time this again until it stopped on its own.

What is interesting here is that the Delrin pad is similar to the bearing thrust pad in a Thorens 160, so I can understand that this should work well and have a good degree of longevity. Additionally, it adds a material similarity to the original Garrard bearing thrust, which uses sintered bronze on top of a plastic pad (probably Delrin or similar, the two seem identical in consistency). The kokomo's manufacturer states that the new version has more of the signature Garrard sound, and utilizes a variation on the original thrust pad design. I take this to mean that the introduction of this material is intended to adhere more closely to the Garrard design which isolates the bottom plate from the spindle with the plastic part. He does not mention that it simultaneously addresses the concern regarding wear on the spindle caused by the ceramic ball, understandably so, since this would be an admission that the kokomo actually causes such wear.

Frankly, now that I've taken my bearing apart and installed the new one, I'm a bit skeptical about the whole controversy about wear on the spindle. I noticed that my original bronze bearing, which was not terribly worn itself, had indeed made a tiny circular mark on the spindle. Conceptually, the bronze is supposed to wear before the steel does, since it is softer, but nonetheless there is some evidence of friction on the spindle. Unless the bearing is run without proper lubrication, the degree of such wear should be minimal, but some should be expected regardless of materials. So, I wonder if perhaps the "damage" reported by others who used the kokomo was in fact already present on their spindles, but unnoticed when they installed the upgrade? Too, an improper amount of lubricant, or worse yet, the introduction of some other loose debris into the bearing during installation (stray fibers from steel wool, perhaps? the things I read about how people try to clean out their bearings, scary...) would certainly account for damage.

I guess this issue has me scratching my head a bit, since so many others do their own bearing upgrades (to Thorens and RekoKut decks) with a ceramic ball bearing, or even steel ones, and nobody reports any damage caused by them. Why would this be the case with one type of upgrade and not be true with all the others?

Anyway, all of this seems to be a moot point, since now the kokomo kit does not create direct contact between ceramic ball and spindle. One thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned in all the reviews, though, is the fact that the thrust pad is integrated into a very heavy bronze plate. This bronze plate itself must add something to the stability of the bearing and it's capacity to rotate freely. The original bronze plate is very thin by comparison, and presumably would not do as good a job at isolating the spindle and platter from vibration.

Sorry for the overly-long commentary here, but in sum, this new bearing seems a pretty significant upgrade to me.

Cheers!


"overly-long commentary" not at all! thanks so much for the report, I am planning to order mine very soon! looking forward to hearing your full impression. how was the installation? seems pretty straight forward but you never know. again thanks for the info
 
ok I just sent my email to Analog tube audio to get my kokomo kit! hopefully it wont take too long to get here.

ok so I have another question for you guys, when you guys bolt your tables to the plinth do you bolt them directly to the plinth surface or put some type of isolation inbetween the table and plinth. I first used some silicone washers between the two and thought it may be sucking some of the life out, I then tried bolting directly to the plinth and had a bit of a rumble issue. any thoughts? what did you do? thanks for the info
 
tweaks are fun (usually)

Each time I do something like this, I learn a bit more about how turntables work. Changing the bearing was really simple. I didn't even take it off its plinth...

Step 1. dismount tonearm (mine is mounted to a heavy acrylic block, so it just lifts off)

Step 2. flip table upside down, used some 4x4 lumber pieces to rest it on.

Step 3. put some towels and a small plastic container underneath, to catch stray oil that might drip out of the bearing (I expected a downpour, but hardly any escaped)

Step 4. unscrew original bearing plate and remove. This will expose the oil well and bottom end of the spindle.

Step 5. sop up existing oil with a cotton rag (should be lint-free, I just used a piece of old t-shirt)

Step 6. push the spindle out, from the bottom upwards, out through the bearing hole.

Step 7. clean the interior of the bearing shaft and the spindle (I chose not to get aggressive with this, mainly concerned about leaving lint inside it. Some folks advocate for using lighter fluid. My oil was pretty clean already so I skipped this).

Step 8. the kokomo consists of the big brass thrust plate, the ceramic ball and the Delrin pad. Drop some oil onto the flat part of the pad and stick it to the bottom end of the spindle. carefully drop the spindle back into the shaft, leaving the pad exposed.

Step 9. place a new gasket over the end of the bearing sleeve where the new plate will re-attach. You can reuse your old one, but mine was leaky so I asked for a new one. They kindly sent me a piece of gasket paper for free and I cut a new one from it. You can buy pre-cut gaskets elsewhere, mainly from England on eBay.

Step 10. drop some oil into the brass well of the plate, where the ceramic ball sits, then stick the ball down into that. drop some more oil onto the ball, but don't flood it.

Step 11. pour oil into the bearing well, enough to cover the exposed spindle by 1mm or so.

Step 12. with the ball in place, flip the bearing plate upside-down and place it into position onto the spindle. From underneath, you can move the spindle a bit to make sure everything is seated correctly.

Step 13. replace screws and hand-tighten so the bearing plate is snug.

Step 14. flip it all back over and check for leaks.

Step 15. I gave it a bit more oil from the top end, to make sure the newly-cleaned spindle had enough at the upper collar, and put the felt washer back on.

Step 16. replace platter, set up tonearm, etc.

Step 17. back in business. whole operation took about 30 minutes, probably slowed down by my wanting to clean everything. Actual operation of removing old plate and putting in kokomo is more like 10 minutes.

voila!
 
wow thanks for the detailed information midwife, I just ordered my kokomo kit last night , robert emailed me saying they are backed up right now so it will be two weeks before it gets to me.

so other then the thrust plate upgrade , whats next? what would be your next step in an upgrade path for the 401? thanks so much guys, Jeremy
 
A garrard 301/401 owner's club is a great idea!

It would allow for consolidated information and could save the effort to do multiple searches. I can't be a member as I don't own either one, but as these "group" threads seem to contain a lot of DIY information, you can bet I'll be following this one.

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
Count me in. I have a 401 completely rebuilt by Martin Bastin and a 301 for which he serviced the bearing. Both in DIY plinths, one with an SME 3012 tonearm (converted from 3009) and the other with an SME 3009 Improved. Various MM carts.
 
wow thanks for the detailed information midwife, I just ordered my kokomo kit last night , robert emailed me saying they are backed up right now so it will be two weeks before it gets to me.

so other then the thrust plate upgrade , whats next? what would be your next step in an upgrade path for the 401? thanks so much guys, Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,

That sounds about right, it took about two weeks for me to receive the kit from Robert. Glad to know he's doing a brisk business.

For me, the next thing I may look into is checking the bearings in the motor and making sure they are clean and in good shape. If I can say my 401 has an issue, it is that there is some noise coming from the motor, a very low-level grinding/whirring sound. You can only hear it with your ear right next to it. It doesn't seem too bad, but since I haven't heard another 401 I have no idea whether this is normal. I took apart the motor on my Thorens 135 and did the rebuild of the bearings and felt washers inside, and it runs perfectly now, so I have a rough idea about the procedure. Anyway, I'm just so thrilled with playing the 401 right now, that I'm not so eager to take it apart just yet.

I've never fully taken apart a turntable, and mine is in very good condition (purchased directly from the original owner, who serviced it regularly). I have noticed that the connection joints for the controls (all those brass arms under there) could use some lubrication grease, so I may do that next. Those parts, I understand, have cadmium coatings on them, and thus need to be handled with gloves and dust mask. Ideally, one should take the whole unit apart and clean all of these moving parts, maybe spray-coat those cadmium-coated parts to stabilize them, and put it back together all cleaned and lubed. This kind of work I would reserve to a highly experienced pro rather than try to tackle myself, but that's just me. I want to have more practice with other things first, like tonearm rewiring and other small upgrades. I have a stock Thorens 160 also, which is more likely to get attacked and upgraded before I do anything else with the 401.

And yes, I agree with everyone else that it's a wonderful idea to consolidate info for 301/401 owners here, I know it takes a lot of work searching for info. Those of you in the UK have better resources for servicing them, so any references provided will be much appreciated by us Yanks. By the way, does anyone have experience with the fellows at Northwest Analogue? I came across this incredible bearing upgrade they provide, and was tempted, but it cost more than I paid for the 401 itself, so maybe later when I get rich...check this out:
http://northwestanalogue.weebly.com/bearing-upgrade.html
 
Oops...

Ok, now I realize you've already seen the Redbeard bearing upgrade, sorry. Pretty impressive, in any case. The link may be of interest to those who haven't seen it before.
 
wow those redbeard bearings look some kind of cool! but 595 euro! that is a bit steep. I like the wood sides on the bearing but I'm not sure why you would put so much effort in the looks of it when it will never be seen. it isnt like you are going to take apart your table to show off your new bearing! I would love to hear from someone who has one and get their impressions.

the northwest analogue slate plinth looks really nice, however I think the only slate piece they make that I can afford is the slate record puck, looks like one hell of a clamp/weight.

I'm going over to Ireland, Scotland and england in a few months, you better believe I will be looking out for a good deal on a slate plinth. that would be heavy carry on! hahaha
 
Ok, now I realize you've already seen the Redbeard bearing upgrade, sorry. Pretty impressive, in any case. The link may be of interest to those who haven't seen it before.

you're right , I didnt even see that beobloke had mentioned the redbeard before.

beobloke , how do you feel the rebeard compares to the kokomo, I see you said it was quieter, do you feel it is worth the extra scratch? was it 500 euro quieter then the kokomo?

wow that bearing is almost double what I paid for my 401, what a nice piece!
 
Blimey!

Yeah, I had the same thought when I saw the fancy wood trim. The polished brass I can understand, but... Have to justify that cost somehow, I guess, although when asked they might have some reason for the wood (lighter weight, less resonance, sonic properties, etc.). Krikey.

Agreed, please bring back a nice slate plinth, maybe grab a few extras too, surely other people will like them. You can put them in your carry-on if they give you a hard time with the checked bags. Oh, and bring me back a sheep too, if you don't mind. My border collie has been pining for a chase... Thanks!
:thmbsp:
 
Yes, I would say the RedBeard is well worth the outlay - it sounds superb and is uncannily quiet, both from an ear-next-to-the-spindle point of view and from a vinyl background noise perspective.

Incidentally, the one I have tried is the Super Bearing, which is further down the Northwest Analogue page linked to earlier. The wooden-clad one at the top of the page is a prototype of a new flagship unit which it has been suggested to me could cost around 6 times as much as the Super.....
 
Yes, I would say the RedBeard is well worth the outlay - it sounds superb and is uncannily quiet, both from an ear-next-to-the-spindle point of view and from a vinyl background noise perspective.

Incidentally, the one I have tried is the Super Bearing, which is further down the Northwest Analogue page linked to earlier. The wooden-clad one at the top of the page is a prototype of a new flagship unit which it has been suggested to me could cost around 6 times as much as the Super.....

wow so the super bearing is the 595euro one and the flagship model will be 6 times that! lets do some quick conversions..... so 3600 euro..would be....$4807 us dollars! holy sh!t that is going to be a $4807 bearing upgrade! now I am not one to throw around that old "law of diminishing returns" nonsense but I have a hard time believing that a $5000 bearing could be worth the outlay.

I would love the opportunity to hear a stock bearing next to the super bearing next to the flagship model. hopefully some reviews will be available soon.

thanks for all of your information Beobloke, hows the weather over in the south UK? I was in brighton a couple of years ago in january and got caught in a blizzard, was stuck there for three extra days, the snow on the beach was really a sight to see. All the best
 
My infant......Early Garrard 301 Hammertone grease bearing

Well done Jeremy. I wish I could contribute more, but in due time. I just got my 301 up and running several days ago. Many, MANY, bumps in the road starting with the plinth, and down the home stretch a bad, new Denon 103R cart. I'm now using a loaner, a low brow Shure, probably circa 70's or 80's and most likely just a step up from the finishing nail like styli that the old Edison Cylinder players used a hundred years ago. So, I am very excited for my new 103R to arrive because this 301 sounds so amazing with this cheezy cartridge that I can't even fathom how nice it will sound with the 103R and SUT.

I am fortunate to be in possession of two grease bearing models (cream and hammertone), and one cream oil bearing. Last night I listened to Frampton, "Frampton Comes Alive" and I could swear Pete was behind my big ol JBL's with his guitar and talk box! In the next few days I plan on giving the Vibrapods a try. Not that I have any issues with resonance. Geez, a 50 some odd pound plinth almost entirely negates any resonance issues:)

In due course I will graduate to one of the Nouveau Riche tonearms. Perhaps a Schick or Schroeder. Boy, I sure hope my application to McDonald's lands me position. I'll need a second job to afford my lofty wish list. OK, TC signing out!

PS I only have the one burl maple plinth. I've just shown two different 301's on it.
 

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That is a gorgeous plinth. The Jelco looks very cool with the gray 301, perfect match.

(I don't belong in this thread, I'm just lurking and drooling all over it)
 
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