Garrard 301/401 owners club!

I'm also interested in an assessment/comparison of the various base choices. I haven't done a plinth for mine yet (lack of space/equipment - see above), though I did order one from a guy off EBay - it's an inexpensive plywood job that has a passing resemblance to the Loricraft skeletal. I plan to use it mainly for testing.

I have slate and soapstone, as well as various wood choices, but since I will need to hire someone for the cutting, I'd prefer to know where I want to go before hand. Most of those who use slate went there from wood (usually stacked ply), and say they wouldn't go back.
 
Cids,

how is the metal attached, with the screws? How tight? How close to the motor and linkage is the relief? And have you ever listened to Loricraft squash ball suspended Garrard and then yours with same cartridge and tonearm, and cables, same phonostage, and amplifier, and speakers to see if there is a difference, and what that difference is?

I sincerely want to know as I have never compared mine same for same with another.

The 301 were secured by 4 stainless steel screws(1.5 in.) into the plinth.

The motor and its linkage are really close to the relief.

I never listened to the Loricraft squash ball suspended Garrard. This approach does not make sense to me. With this approach, all the vibration stay with the 301 and nowhere to go.

The proper way is to use metal spikes or cones under the plinth and the vibration generated by the 301 motor will be stain out of the plinth.
 
I'm also interested in an assessment/comparison of the various base choices. I haven't done a plinth for mine yet (lack of space/equipment - see above), though I did order one from a guy off EBay - it's an inexpensive plywood job that has a passing resemblance to the Loricraft skeletal. I plan to use it mainly for testing.

I have slate and soapstone, as well as various wood choices, but since I will need to hire someone for the cutting, I'd prefer to know where I want to go before hand. Most of those who use slate went there from wood (usually stacked ply), and say they wouldn't go back.

I like wood better, especially hardwood.
Shindo uses wood in its US$20000 Shindo 301. I think there is a reason for it.

I never try Slate material as plinth. It might be a good material for plinth, may be not. It looks very beautiful for sure. My guess is that Slate as plinth will produce a extremely clean sound. My understanding is clean sound have less air and this is not the direction that I want to go to.

Avoid MDF as plinth material. Very bad sounding.

Shindo 301 with isolation devices.
Shindo301fotoPitchPerfect.jpg
 
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The 301 were secured by 4 stainless steel screws(1.5 in.) into the plinth.

The motor and its linkage are really close to the relief.

I never listened to the Loricraft squash ball suspended Garrard. This approach does not make sense to me. With this approach, all the vibration stay with the 301 and nowhere to go.

The proper way is to use metal spikes or cones under the plinth and the vibration generated by the 301 motor will be stain out of the plinth.

Thanks Cid, But...

You make two statements 1) that the approach of squash ball vibration absorbtion "does not make sense to me" and 2) "the proper way is to use metal spikes or cones under the plinth".

I gather you have never listened side by side to the two methods all else being the same or you'd have said so. I said before that I have never seen an opinion written by anyone who has compared like for like with only the plinth matterial, shape, system being changed for comparison, and I still haven't.

What I read here is your opinion, not a conclusion based upon actual listening cmparisons. Please read the message by Raul about MM cartridges on the link I provided above, it shows how one should proceed to learn the truth and then write up their findings if they want to be taken seriously by me anyway.
 
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It is all system dependent and about personal taste. What is working for u will not be working in my system.
I trust Shindo approach more than the Loricraft. Shindo is a legendary figure but not Loricraft.
Have u heard something regarding mechanical ground ? Research it yourself.
 
My experience with my 301 and 401 is that the Loricraft squash ball type suspension worked much better for me than a solid layered plinth, or one suspended on a solid ball and cup. Not a controlled A/B experiment, but I tried the squash balls last, and this is the version that has stayed.
 
The thing is that we cannot compare everything. Sometimes we have to make an education or uneducation guess based on logic and what we know at the time. Also there are too many variables involve.

Audiophile with good judgement goes forward and those with poor judgement will go in circle.
 
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It is all system dependent and about personal taste. What is working for u will not be working in my system.
I trust Shindo approach more than the Loricraft. Shindo is a legendary figure but not Loricraft.
Have u heard something regarding mechanical ground ? Research it yourself.

Ah, Cid,

You don't have a $20,000 Shindo built Garrard 301. In fact, nothing on your turntable was built by Ken Shindo.

I recently had in my system a Shindo preamplifier, sounded very nice, played bass better than any other I ever owned, but wasn't worth the £10,000 that it was selling for. I haven't heard a Shindo built Garrard but I suspect that the combination of the larger and deader sounding platter, with his unique bearing and re-built EMT tonearm, and the significantly re-built ortofon cartridge through that specially designed step-up tranny would sound nice, and with that pretty cherry wood veneered plinth would look nice too, but wouldn't be worth 20,000 (to me anyway).

As for Loricraft, it depends on where you live. Most everyone into classic hi fi here knows about Loricraft, but only a handful have heard of Ken Shindo.
 
Redbeard 401 Super Bearing

It is indeed super, see my post here if you'd like to read about my initial impressions.
 
My experience with my 301 and 401 is that the Loricraft squash ball type suspension worked much better for me than a solid layered plinth, or one suspended on a solid ball and cup. Not a controlled A/B experiment, but I tried the squash balls last, and this is the version that has stayed.

What other materials/designs had you tried? Was all else the same?

Thanks
 
ok guys , I know some of you are new to AK but lets keep this thread civil. there is enough server space for everyone to have their opinion. squash balls, slate, hamburger meat, whatever plinth you are using we want your listening impressions. the whole idea is to have a data base of information on the 301/401 so that we can read each persons opinion and make a decision on what would work best for you. healthy discussion is encouraged but bickering about who's team is better doesn't really help anyone. Lets keep this friendly!

the only person I know who has had their table in different plinths is RedBoy, I will message Nate and see if he could write a quick comparison for us.

keep the pics coming , I never get tired of looking at these classic beauties!

all the best guys and Happy Mardi Gras. I am definitely missing home (New Orleans) today! les a le bon ton roulet!
 
What other materials/designs had you tried? Was all else the same?

Thanks

Hi Daniel, I tried a solid plinth made of layers of seasoned oak, placed on spikes; a plinth following the Dr Imbabi design, which used to be on the University of Aberdeen server; and one with plywood layers in two parts, initially suspended using solidcore isolation stands, like these: http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/solidcore_stands_e.html

For the Loricraft plinth which gave me the idea of using squash balls, see the review and pics by Harmut Quaschik here.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/loricraft_e.html

Apologies for two links to TNT-Audio; I just give them because they are relevant to this discussion.
 
Hi Daniel, I tried a solid plinth made of layers of seasoned oak, placed on spikes; a plinth following the Dr Imbabi design, which used to be on the University of Aberdeen server; and one with plywood layers in two parts, initially suspended using solidcore isolation stands, like these: http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/solidcore_stands_e.html

For the Loricraft plinth which gave me the idea of using squash balls, see the review and pics by Harmut Quaschik here.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/loricraft_e.html

Apologies for two links to TNT-Audio; I just give them because they are relevant to this discussion.

Thank you for your insight. I appreciate your sharing your experience with me and all else who might also be interested.

Daniel
 
Glad to help Daniel. The problem with scientific A/B comparisons is 'real life'. It costs a lot to make one plinth, let alone more. You only make another if you are somewhat dissatisfied with the previous one.

The oak plinth now houses my TD135 Mk1. I've taken the original arm off it and have a 12" arm mounted on the plinth instead. The pressed steel chassis of the TD135 is quite light and rests on pads of absorbent foam. It's temporary, as I plan to strip and rebuild that deck, and there is some rumble, but it's the one I'm enjoying at the moment.
 
all this plinth talk has made me think of a question not often asked. what type of washers do you guys use in between the 301/401 and the plinth? also how tight do you tighten up the bolts to secure it? have you tried different types and noticed any difference?
I first bolted the table directly to the wood plinth. I noticed some rumble so I tried a couple of different things. first I used the crusty old rubber washers that the table came with, original maybe? they didnt do much at all to sort out the rumble, I then tried cork and then settled on red plumber silicone washers. these completely isolated any rumble and the table now plays dead silent. I generally tighten the bolts to snug then give them another quarter turn or two.

I know this is stupid picky but just thought I would throw it out there.
 
all this plinth talk has made me think of a question not often asked. what type of washers do you guys use in between the 301/401 and the plinth? also how tight do you tighten up the bolts to secure it? have you tried different types and noticed any difference?
I first bolted the table directly to the wood plinth. I noticed some rumble so I tried a couple of different things. first I used the crusty old rubber washers that the table came with, original maybe? they didnt do much at all to sort out the rumble, I then tried cork and then settled on red plumber silicone washers. these completely isolated any rumble and the table now plays dead silent. I generally tighten the bolts to snug then give them another quarter turn or two.

I know this is stupid picky but just thought I would throw it out there.

The Loricraft rebuild included black soft rings of rubber that fit between the plinth and the metal chassis with the screws passing through. I was told pretty much as you do, tighten to just snug and then another 1/4 turn or two (perhaps or one full turn, I can't remember, old age, I will contact Loricraft tomorrow and make sure).
 
The Loricraft rebuild included black soft rings of rubber that fit between the plinth and the metal chassis with the screws passing through. I was told pretty much as you do, tighten to just snug and then another 1/4 turn or two (perhaps or one full turn, I can't remember, old age, I will contact Loricraft tomorrow and make sure).

Correction: I telephoned Terry O'Sullivan at Loricraft today and we discussed several of the talking points.

First, the rubber washer washers (rings) that go over the mounting bolts. He says the Garrard people told him to tighten the nut till slack gone then using fingers only (not wrench) snug up a bit more. "pinch only" he says.

Second, they tried different plinth matterials, all else being equal, and got the following results; 1. Marble chasis on squash balls = good at first hearing but after awhile hard on ears (hasn't tried slate), 2. Plywood chasis on squash balls = nice, very nice with all the rythym and swing that Garrard are known for, as long as you put an aluminum mount between plinth and tonearm else it sounds too bright.
3) MDF on squash balls, what they used, tonearm mount not as critical

His opinion seemed to me to be that plywood would be better if you have the soft aluminum tonearm board/mount to isolate it from the plinth.

Also, the complete re-build to good as new is around £400 plus VAT and shipping, I paid £1000 because I bought a Missing Link Phono Stage at the same time. Sorry, I must have Dain BRammage!
 
Thanks for this helpful info about the Loricraft plinth.

I realised after posting that my TD135 Mk1 is not currently on the oak plinth, but another solid one made from laminated ply. The four quarters of the motor unit rest quarters of a dense foam ring I got from a plumbing supplies shop (it is the large flexible gasket used to couple cistern to toilet bowl)!
 
Another shot of the system from a different perspective, for those who like photos.
 

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I stopped buy the Loricraft website last night, man those power supplies sure do look nice has anyone messed with a replacement power supply for their 301/401? I am going to england next month so I may try and swing over there for an in store demonstration, not sure how far they are from london but it didnt seem too far on google maps.
 
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