Garrard 301. Why all the excitement?
- Thread starter kaplang
- Start date
spartanmanor
Lunatic Member
I think it has to do with collector value. I picked up a early greese bearing model last year on CL and can say the build is very impressive. Is the value based on performance.....I would vote no. Still a nice table and a fun project. BTW I paid no where near 1K.
When they were going for a lot less than $1000, I can see how putting one in a DIY plinth could result in a cost effective way to get at the performance of much more expensive TTs. Now that they're so expensive, I'm not so sure. I was thinking of going the route of modding a Garrard 301, Thorens TD-124, or Lenco L-70 (which I have), but finally just came to the conclusion that I'd rather have a new turntable that has a lot of the same attributes that the fans of these old tables talk about (VPI Classic). The VPI is, in some ways, a response to the love of these old turntables.
Balifly
Listening
That is a great article on 6 moons.com, thank for the link JohnVF!:thmbsp:
The idler drive I got is a smaller version of this one.
http://www.audio-heritage.jp/VICTOR/player/srp-471.html
It is the Nippon Victor SRP-471E-5, I am still gathering information on it.
The idler drive I got is a smaller version of this one.
http://www.audio-heritage.jp/VICTOR/player/srp-471.html
It is the Nippon Victor SRP-471E-5, I am still gathering information on it.
Same reason an EPA-100 Technics tone arm or SME 3009 II goes for so much money in pristine condition : collector's value. (I do admit, the EPA-100 does have some unique performance / operation features that do make it a hard item to replace - but let's face it - it's rediculous resale value is due to collecting issues)
I am guilty myself of having some collector's audio items that I prize not for performance, but for their history and looks, and I would not likely ever sell them for any reasonable amount of money, due to my personal value I place upon them.
-Chris
I am guilty myself of having some collector's audio items that I prize not for performance, but for their history and looks, and I would not likely ever sell them for any reasonable amount of money, due to my personal value I place upon them.
-Chris
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They -are- solidly built tables. Built like tanks. One of the keys to good performance lies with getting a good rebuilt idler. (you probably are not gonna' get a good one on ebay)
Set up properly they're quite good. However with the increase in the price of admission these days it becomes more difficult to have enough left over to really "do something " with a 301. And at that point it becomes more and more likely the money would be better spent on something else.
Loricraft specializes in rebuilds, though response can be spotty...
http://www.garrard501.com/rebuild.html
EDIT: Change that from spotty to not good. I talked with my friend who has a grease bearing 301, and while Loricraft initially did right by him, they became somewhat non responsive in the face of ongoing problems, and basically left him hanging..... Use the link for reference only.
Set up properly they're quite good. However with the increase in the price of admission these days it becomes more difficult to have enough left over to really "do something " with a 301. And at that point it becomes more and more likely the money would be better spent on something else.
Loricraft specializes in rebuilds, though response can be spotty...
http://www.garrard501.com/rebuild.html
EDIT: Change that from spotty to not good. I talked with my friend who has a grease bearing 301, and while Loricraft initially did right by him, they became somewhat non responsive in the face of ongoing problems, and basically left him hanging..... Use the link for reference only.
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That's why I like the AR XA. They're common as ticks, therefore not expensive, and easy to modify - with good baseline performance. Can't wait to finish mine up, it's almost ready to go.
Don't I know how that goes. I've been slowly adding to the American Flyer set my grandfather bought for my mom and her brothers in 1952, and more recently assembling a duplicate of it for my cousin and her family. Not for the faint of heart or pocketbook.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
The Garrard 301 and 401 fetch so much money due to being some of the best broadcast/audiophile idler wheel driven tables ever made. If you like PRAT few do it better (Pace, Rhythm, and Timing). Their only real competition were the Thorens TD-124 line and the EMT turntables.
KevinL
Active Member
Haah! You think $1000 is a lot. Take a look at this:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1264213695
Personally, I don't see what's the buzz.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1264213695
Personally, I don't see what's the buzz.
131east23
...near Frank's Pizza!
For someone who is probably priced out of these forever this is my two cents: The Thorens TD124 is probably the most beautiful TT ever built, followed closely by the 301. The Garrard 401 aesthetically is not as pleasing but tends to grow on you. As a transcription TT the 401 lacks all 4 speeds. What I like about the Garrards is the freedom to build your own plinth, maybe install two tone arms and have a great beast of a TT driving the vinyl. TD 124's typically fetch more money on Ebay than 301's. A 401 sold just last week for between 600 and 700 dollars, a price I can afford. However, if you don't care about the aesthetics of the TT you should look for a Rek-O-Kut with hysteresis motor or a Russco. The ROK and the Russco transcription TT's were true broadcast caliber tables and can be bought for less than 500 dollars on Ebay. (The real steals on Ebay in the last month (I've been watching) are Lenco's, Elac Miracords and ROK's, although the Rek-O-Kut secret is out.) The real problem with buying a 301, which has already been mentioned, is the money you have to invest to restore it, build a plinth, buy tone arm(s), carts... It's just over the top.
I disagree that these are just being bought for collector's issues and not for performance. Many of these are being used as a basis for turntables that, to the ears of many, are more musical, have better timing (the previously mentioned PRAT), and are just simply more involving than some of what is out there new now, including a lot of the suspended belt drives. I would think that if it's just a collector's thing, they wouldn't be being modified, dropped into giant plinths, with modern arms. They'd be restored to stock..but they aren't being made stock. In almost anything I've ever collected, anything done to modify it from original condition lowers the price. That does not seem to be the case with the 301, 401, or 124.
They're being made to try to beat turntables costing much more than $1000, at least to the ears of those doing the restorations. High torgue, driving a heavy platter is the sound a lot of people really think is where it's at in turntables, and those with DIY skills, time, and maybe a nice arm laying around are buying these up because there aren't that many that were built like the 301 or TD-124. Even the Lencos are going up in price as more people hear what these high torque non suspended TTs can sound like, in comparison to what we were told for years was the only acceptable way to build a turntable..such as the Linn way. I've only heard unrestored examples of RoKs and Lencos (and my belt driven but high torque,unsuspended Empire 208) and there really is something to that sound. So much so, to my ears, that I bought the only modern interpretation of it that I could find for a (somewhat) affordable price, because I simply didn't have the time or work space to do a restoration. I'd still love to have a 301 someday.
They're being made to try to beat turntables costing much more than $1000, at least to the ears of those doing the restorations. High torgue, driving a heavy platter is the sound a lot of people really think is where it's at in turntables, and those with DIY skills, time, and maybe a nice arm laying around are buying these up because there aren't that many that were built like the 301 or TD-124. Even the Lencos are going up in price as more people hear what these high torque non suspended TTs can sound like, in comparison to what we were told for years was the only acceptable way to build a turntable..such as the Linn way. I've only heard unrestored examples of RoKs and Lencos (and my belt driven but high torque,unsuspended Empire 208) and there really is something to that sound. So much so, to my ears, that I bought the only modern interpretation of it that I could find for a (somewhat) affordable price, because I simply didn't have the time or work space to do a restoration. I'd still love to have a 301 someday.
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