Generic stylus for old cart, or new cart altogether?

chguat

Member
So I recently picked up a Technics SL-Q3, and I officially love this turntable, but I want to get it paired with the best cartridge I can afford. It came with an Audio Technica MK14SII cartridge, which fetches a decent price on ebay these days, but OEM replacement styli are in the $130 range, which is a bit much for my budget.

Ebay currently has a generic stylus which can fit all AT carts of this family, but I'm concerned that the cheap price (about $15) will also equal cheap quality. The other option I'm considering is shelling out for an AT95E, which is one of the best budget carts money can buy.

So my question is this: has anyone had good luck in pairing older carts with generic styli? Do you think a new budget cart would be a better route? Your input is greatly appreciated.
 
I have tried several generics on Pickerings and Shures. They do not sound bad. I prefer Jicos but money is tight. I do have other carts so the urge to replace isn't a priority. I may get slammed but you might try a generic. It sounds good on a Shure V15 type IV. Tracking at a gram and a half. The vocals are quite distinct. See how you like the sound. Sold those ATs new back in the day. It's a really good cart as is the Technics turntable. Keep in mind records are an investment. I usually run older records with them. My new records get played on either NOS Shure M55 or a Shure M55 with a JICO stylus. At some point try to get a better stylus for your AT. Doubt you will be disappointed.
 
chg: Have you already considered going for an original ATS13 instead? If Stereoneedles still offers that for not quite 60 bucks, that would be an attractive option...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Stylus prices are just nuts, and generic stuff quality is all over the lot, and if you think a $15 replacement is going to last for any time at all, I will be surprised. That is a pretty good table, I would look for complete new cart on sale or close out prices. It would be good to hear what you buy, but that doesn't happen any more. Find a local AKer, I have people over, just to listen.
 
So I recently picked up a Technics SL-Q3, and I officially love this turntable, but I want to get it paired with the best cartridge I can afford. It came with an Audio Technica MK14SII cartridge, which fetches a decent price on ebay these days, but OEM replacement styli are in the $130 range, which is a bit much for my budget.
.

These two should be within your budget...

http://www.shure.com/americas/products/phono/m97xe-audiophile-phono-cartridge

http://www.shure.com/americas/products/phono/m35x-dj-record-needle
 
malden: I wouldn't quite see the sense in these two. I mean, why should he buy an M97xE for 40 bucks more than what an original ATS13 would cost him, leaving him with a lesser quality needle - or an M35X for about the same as an ATS13, leaving him with an even lesser quality needle?

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
go for the best new AT cart. you can afford.
just IMO.
I have a SL D2 w/AT122lp cart and the sound is just great. couldt be happier.
 
malden: I wouldn't quite see the sense in these two. I mean, why should he buy an M97xE for 40 bucks more than what an original ATS13 would cost him, leaving him with a lesser quality needle - or an M35X for about the same as an ATS13, leaving him with an even lesser quality needle?

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

I don't know anything about AT cartridges and the op didn't seem to want to spend $130.00 on a replacement stylus for the cartridge he has.
 
Follow lini´s advise, the ATS13 is a really high quality needle and a real bargain IMO.
 
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Hey everyone, thanks for the advice. Sorry I didn't jump back on my own thread sooner, but things have been crazy. Anyway, due to a freak accident this weekend, we're going to have to replace a window on our house, which is going to wipe out my disposable funds for a bit. I will eventually go with the ATS13 when the Mrs. is amenable to it. For the time being, I fitted the turntable with a spare AT3600L, which is workable, but not ideal. At least I know that I have an reasonably affordable option for this cart.
 
chguat: I can understand your situation, but you should be aware that we're talking about dwindling resources in this case. I.e., the new old stock needles the dealers can currently still offer will sooner or later be sold out, not rarely preceded by a rapid price increase shortly before.

If Stereoneedles can actually still deliver the ATS13 for not quite 60 bucks, that would still be a very attractive price for a needle on that quality level (rectangular-shanked nudie with nicely polished, sharp, true elliptical tip on tapered, anodised alu cantilever) - just compare to what the technically not quite as good Ortofon needles 20, 520II/VM Red or 2M Blue or AT needles ATN120E(b) or VMN30EN typically already cost. So you'd better not hesitate for too long, 'cause otherwise the chances a pretty high that you'd have to spend more for less...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
If Stereoneedles can actually still deliver the ATS13 for not quite 60 bucks, that would still be a very attractive price for a needle on that quality level
Agreed. I paid $89 for my genuine ATS13 two years ago, and have no regrets. $60 is a bargain for that stylus!
 
chguat: I can understand your situation, but you should be aware that we're talking about dwindling resources in this case. I.e., the new old stock needles the dealers can currently still offer will sooner or later be sold out, not rarely preceded by a rapid price increase shortly before.

If Stereoneedles can actually still deliver the ATS13 for not quite 60 bucks, that would still be a very attractive price for a needle on that quality level (rectangular-shanked nudie with nicely polished, sharp, true elliptical tip on tapered, anodised alu cantilever) - just compare to what the technically not quite as good Ortofon needles 20, 520II/VM Red or 2M Blue or AT needles ATN120E(b) or VMN30EN typically already cost. So you'd better not hesitate for too long, 'cause otherwise the chances a pretty high that you'd have to spend more for less...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Is the ATS13 no longer in production?
 
I can definitely relate to the OP. When it comes to this hobby, I'm about as cheap as they come. Most of my gear comes from Goodwill, with a small smattering from craigslist. I just went through a similar exercise that started with two turntables and three cartridges I bought at Goodwill. Be patient, I'll get to the point eventually. If you want to skip ahead, I tie it all up in the last paragraph.

The first purchase was a Realistic LAB-440 I bought at Goodwill about three years ago. It was absolutely filthy. It came with the headshell detached, the metal body of the R47XT cartridge had come unglued from its plastic shroud and there was no stylus to be found. But, the price of $14.99 was right. So, I bought it, bought it home and kind of forgot about it until about a month ago when I finally got around to cleaning it up and getting it up and running with a cartridge that was included as a throw in with my second Goodwill turntable...

That one is an MCS 6601 that was another Goodwill find I bought about a month and a half ago. I almost didn't buy this one. It was pretty clean and everything was functional. It had the original Shure 2215 cartridge (renamed M75) with the original 2225 stylus. To keep this somewhat on topic, for the OP's sake, the MCS is a direct drive turntable made by Panasonic of the same approximate age as the OP's SL-Q3. I almost didn't buy this one, as I didn't really NEED another turntable, but as I was using my cell phone to do some research on this table and mulling over my decision, the guy who stocks the electronics section told me he had a spare needle for that turntable. He went in the back room and came out five minutes later with a Signet TK10ML cartridge. Well, at $24.99 for the turntable and two cartridges, including one very expensive one, how could I say no?

I brought that one home, dusted it off and immediately began spinning vinyl using the original cartridge and stylus. After a short while, it became apparent that the original 38-year old stylus needed replacing. My first instinct, as someone who is frugal (aka: cheap), was to get a cheap, generic replacement stylus. So, I ordered a Pfanstiehl 4760-DE from Amazon for $11.37 shipped, and thus began my stylus ordeal (documented in this thread). Well, I didn't get the Pfanstiehl I ordered, I got an even cheaper Columbian made Normarh stylus, and while it looks well made, it's very harsh sounding. I've been playing around with it, mounted on the original 2215 cartridge for the past couple weeks. I've given it plenty of break in time and tried changing the tracking force, but nothing I've tried can tame those harsh highs. It actually hurts my ears to listen to this stylus. Since they shipped the wrong item, I did eventually get a refund of the purchase price. So, at least this lesson didn't cost me any money.

One thing I learned from this experience is that generic styli are hit and miss. Read as many reviews as you can, buy from a reputable seller and make sure you know EXACTLY what you're getting.

As I began hunting for a worthy table for the throw-in Signet TK10ML, I decided to dig out that old, filthy LAB-440, clean it up, and give it a try with the Signet. It's not the most expensive table around, but is generally well regarded and has a low mass arm that's a good match for the high compliance Signet cartridge. Plus, I had it already, so it wouldn't cost me anything to give it a try. Oh my, what a revelation. Of course, the Signet with it's original stylus just blows the 2215 with the generic stylus out of the water.

Getting the LAB-440 out also prompted me to do something with the R47XT cartridge that came with it, sans stylus. Thanks to the generous sharing of knowledge in this forum, I learned the R47XT was made by Shure for Radio Shack and would directly accept an Ne95ED stylus. I was able to track down a NOS genuine Shure stylus from LPGear for the same $60 price as the ATS13 recommended here by Manfred / lini. Keep in mind that $60 price is more than I have invested in my two Goodwill turntables and three cartridges combined. But, I will say, in this case, it was money well spent. I mounted it on the R47XT this morning, installed the cartridge on a spare headshell and have been listening to it on the MCS 6601 all day. Another revelation. It's not quite the equal of the Signet TK10ML, but it is still a VERY nice sounding cartridge/stylus combination. Compared to the generic Normarh stylus there really is no comparison. I can listen to this NOS genuine Shure stylus all day with no hint of listening fatigue. The Normarh hurts my ears and gives me a headache within 10 minutes.

So, now both my Goodwill tables are up and running with very nice sounding cartridge/stylus combinations: the LAB-440 with the Signet TK10ML with the original Signet microline stylus and the MCS 6601 with the R47XT cartridge and the NOS Shure Ne95ED styus.

But, I still want a decent sounding cheap generic stylus for spinning thrift store vinyl of dubious condition. This time I did more research and decided to order an EVG 760-DED for $12.95 shipped from Carole's Needles. The seller claims that particular stylus is made by Jico in Japan for EVG, and whether or not that's true, I cannot find a single bad review for that stylus. It should be here early next week and I will mount it on the 2215 cartridge as my low rent, second hand vinyl set up on the MCS 6601. It can be swapped out quickly with the R47XT/Ne95ED combo as desired. This will let me protect the Ne95ED from potential damage and premature wear when playing vinyl of lesser or unknown condition, but still allow me to enjoy the blissful sound of the Ne95ED when playing known-good albums.

In any case, my recommendation to the OP is to follow Manfred / lini's advice and snap up that genuine ATS13 stylus for 60 bucks while you can. A good stylus makes all the difference in the world. While you may (or may not) find a good generic stylus for less than 15 bucks, the ATS13 is a known quantity. You won't be disappointed. Get it while you can. There is little point in having a decent table and cartridge if you don't have an equally decent stylus. Get the real deal while you can. It's money well spent, and you can still experiment with cheap generic styli if, like me, you want something for spinning vinyl of questionable condition.
 
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No sir, the genuine stylii for sale are all NOS.

I am aware that they are NOS, my question, are they no longer in production?.... is in response to @lini 's statement.....

chguat: I can understand your situation, but you should be aware that we're talking about dwindling resources in this case. I.e., the new old stock needles the dealers can currently still offer will sooner or later be sold out, not rarely preceded by a rapid price increase shortly before.

If Stereoneedles can actually still deliver the ATS13 for not quite 60 bucks, that would still be a very attractive price for a needle on that quality level (rectangular-shanked nudie with nicely polished, sharp, true elliptical tip on tapered, anodised alu cantilever) - just compare to what the technically not quite as good Ortofon needles 20, 520II/VM Red or 2M Blue or AT needles ATN120E(b) or VMN30EN typically already cost. So you'd better not hesitate for too long, 'cause otherwise the chances a pretty high that you'd have to spend more for less...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
See if you can get the original specs for the original stylus and then for the generic and see how close they compare. A friend of mine was able to do that for a very high end Shure cartridge he was given. He ended up, BTW, buying a new cartridge.

There was a website, Garage-A-Records. I think it was bought up by someone else and the name changed, but if you type in Garage-A-Records.com, it should take you to the new site name.

I ordered from them some years ago and got a good price on original Shure styli.
 
malden: Indeed - and the same unfortunately also goes for all other AT needle types with that cantilever/tip combo (ATN13, ATN130E/132EP et cetera...). Quite a pity, as to my ears this combo was a particularly nice one and a nice alternative to quite a few line-contact-variants, just with the disadvantage of somewhat faster wear...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
So I recently picked up a Technics SL-Q3, and I officially love this turntable, but I want to get it paired with the best cartridge I can afford. It came with an Audio Technica MK14SII cartridge, which fetches a decent price on ebay these days, but OEM replacement styli are in the $130 range, which is a bit much for my budget.

Ebay currently has a generic stylus which can fit all AT carts of this family, but I'm concerned that the cheap price (about $15) will also equal cheap quality. The other option I'm considering is shelling out for an AT95E, which is one of the best budget carts money can buy.

So my question is this: has anyone had good luck in pairing older carts with generic styli? Do you think a new budget cart would be a better route? Your input is greatly appreciated.
Yes, I purchased an excellent Japanese "JICO" brand stylus for my old Signet AM40S cartridge. The original microline stylus is only for occasional use now. However, Audio Technica just discontinued a whole line of their modern "VM" body cartridges, and the new cartridges have basically the same bodies with updated stylii. Instead of an AT95E, you can pick up an AT100E "VM" cartridge for under $75.00 AND get an upgraded stylus later on.
 
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