Getting another 400.

[larryderouin]

Going down to Va. to pick up a 400 from AK'er Analog Addict.

Serial 48291 U

the previous owner started to work on it but bailed on it from what i understand.

Cosmetically it's in very good shape, except for the dust. So it'll get the usual overhaul, Tubes gone over and replaced as necessary, bias and power supply upgrade and mods, new caps thru out, de-emphasis resistors, new Can caps, Grid return and coupling caps, screen resistors, cathode resistors, and if I can make head and tails, some if not all of Dave's mods to it as detailed in the Upgrading the 400 thread. and ckeelers led's for the dial lamps.

Some pics............
Front Panel looks really good. And I AM NOT going to mess with the Dial Glass.


Needs some Dusting and light clean and polish


The 2 caps already in will get replaced with a full set of new cans.


Late version



Right now until the grass cutting season opens up, it's gonna get stripped and cleaned, tape off the trannies, and paint them. Couple cans of neverdull. Summer project. Then find a front loader console in Modern similar
to ODYFAEL's Premiere. Or see about a custom case like this one...

 

[bhamham]

Way to go, Larry! I look forward to your rebuild thread.

 

[audiodon]

That's a low hours unit. You can tell by the light brown color of the output tube sockets.
That will be a fun project.

 

[IMTubeHead]

Very Nice, Larry

Can't wait to see your progress!

John

 

[larryderouin]

Got it home. No 7868's, but I have a used quad for testing then playing until I get a matched quad of EH's.

The dust/grime on the top side of the chassis is really BAKED ON. Ammonia& Water didn't cut thru it. Neither did scrubbing bubbles. Greased Lightning and a GREEN Scotchbrite pad and a good amount of elbow-grease (quite less on the lettering but still had some loss) is showing some progress. It had some SERIOUS Buildup of Tar/Nicotine mixed in. I'll worry hard about the lettering on the chassis later. But at the same time try to save as much as I can.

Don's right about the Tube Sockets. this looks like it's a low hours unit and put away after a few years. All the sockets are good 'n tight. Controls feel like new. There are a couple of spots of rust near the center of the chassis centered on a rivet. They can be taken care of.

The faceplate is near factory pristine. Very little if any wear on the lettering, including around the VOL cntrl. The knobs have new brights on them, albeit the tuning knob has a stripe. (easily rectified.)

The original cord is intact, but the original plug has been changed for a later 50's style flat version (gets changed out).

So boys and girls, we've got a Spring/Summer project as the $$ rolls in. 1st order of business is to see what parts I have in stock and pull them. Let me clean the chassis some more and I'll post some pics.

Larry

 

[rufleruf]

Exciting. I bought a pristine original 400 in its original box locally a month ago and really like the sound of it. Everytime I turn it on I think about the selenium rectifier though...

I am thinking about getting a few rubber stamps made of the commonly needed chassis markings for my 500B restoration and others -ought to work with black paint if done carefully. If it works I'd be happy to send them around. You might be a candidate.

Also, I bought a bunch of original Fisher cords from audiodon. LMK if you want one for this.

 

[larryderouin]

Changing out the Rectifier is one of the simpler items on the FISHER's. If your voltages are holding up right now, you can probably wait. I replace them as a matter of course before I put power to any of them. This one included.

I've got one of those DYMo's that uses the clear tape. Gonna try that, or maybe some wet slide transfer decalomania (model airplane decals) printed on a inkjet.

None of my gear is what you would classify as concours or showroom, cosmetically. They might pass for moderately used in good condition. And that's how I like them to look. They are clean, work as originally designed (with some safety upgrades). I don't see a need to bring them back up to factory fresh in the cosmetics because then you have to keep after them and worry everytime the grandkids come over with PB&J on their fingers. Eventually the gear is going to the Grandkids, and they''ll know how to use them before hand.

So if I wear some of the lettering off the chassis, it's not a big deal with me. I have enough .pdf's and pictures with the layouts and lettering on them to figure it all out.

I've got a couple power cords here I can use from old Fishers, so that's covered. Thanks for the offers tho.

 

[dcgillespie]

Super find Larry, and what a looker! It's neat when it's your own project so that you can take it at your own speed. If you go ahead and place some strategic PB&J smears on it now, it will deter the grand kids into finding something else to smear. Place a very clean but very dead smartphone nearby as a decoy!

It'll sing when you're done!

Dave

 

[analog addict]

Larry - Pleasure meeting you on Sunday. Glad to see it went to someone that's going to give it the beauty treatment it deserves and who will appreciate it down the road. I got it from AK'er Macaltec when he sold off all his tube gear. As previously stated, I never even fired it up. Looking forward to seeing the pix as work progresses....:thmbsp:

 

[larryderouin]

Checked all the tubes on the Philco 9100 and Eico 625. of the 9 12ax7's,(and there is a definate mix here.....Westinghouse, RCA, GE, Matsushita, svetlana, and a magnavox branded 7025) only 4 tubes tested above the minimum of 1250 on the 9100. And they all tested between 1400 and 1800. All tested on the EICO in the weak to replace area on the scale. Replace/weak line is 42 with weak/ok line @ 58. Usually good 12ax7's test between 62 and 64 on the EICO. The SVET tested highest, and the Magnavox lowest, with the pair of Westies tied for next to last. One RCA 2nd, then the GE 3rd, 2nd RCA 4th, and the pair of Matsu's tied for 5th. All are worn out AFAIC.

All of the RF tubes tested very good on the 9100 (at least twice the minimums), and very high (>75) on the EICO. Mainly RCA's with a Sylvania and the 6HA5 a FISHER Branded.

The 7868's I have are known to be weak and are left overs from an overhaul I did last year, but they are servicable with an IBAM or BAL/BIAS circuit for now.

Plans are to get the parts for the recap, Bal/bias board, and Filter caps over the next couple of months. Then get some new tubes to replace all of the 12ax7's. (Hmmmmm.....I could rob some out of a couple of consoles not in use at the moment). The 7868's will be replaced with a quad of EH's.

QUESTION....And it's just for shits and giggles.....(Lets get those dormant brain cells putting out some smoke! )
With the GOOD(read low hour barely used) old stock 7868's drying up in the near future, and the only alternative is the EH 7868, has anyone considered swapping in 7591 sockets and going with the TUNG-SOL Re-Issues or EH7591's???? I take it that it's feasible, but is it as simple as just wiring in the Octal Sockets, dropping in the 7591's (properly biased of course) and calling it a day ? Or is a transformer swap, along with circuit mods required? If anyone has done this or knows of someone who has, what were the final results....sound wise?

 

[gadget73]

I've occasionally had some small signal tubes that were just done for. Not that often, but it happens. Sounds like you got quite the mix of high hour tubes there. At least those all can be had easily.

 

[dcgillespie]

Other than a socket change, converting to 7591s involves nothing more than a simple swap out. Transformers remain the same. If you're blind folded and your life depends on being able to identify whether 7591s or 7868s are installed, well, it's been nice knowin' ya!

Dave

 

[larryderouin]

LOL! And I'd never get to finish the Corona-Corona. What a waste of 15 year old Virgin thighs. It was something that popped up in the back of my mind. Nice to know for future reference if 7868's ever became extinct before I did.

 

[gadget73]

You could also swap in Magnoval sockets and run EH 7868 tubes. Thats what the fat pin base that the EH7868 uses is called, the old stock 7868 is a Novar base.

You're pretty much stuck with the EH tube once you do that. I went from 7591 to EH 7868 in a Sherwood because the Tung-Sol 7591 did not exist at that time. As Dave said, other than re-wiring the socket, its a straight swap. The mounting for the socket lines up and all that jazz and they are essentially the same tube electrically speaking.

 

[notdigital]

Just to use some 7868's that I've collected along the way, I made up some 7868 to 7591 bases. Test the same, sound the same, but forget about sticking them under a case...

 

[monkboughtlunch]

Looks like a fun project. What are the EIA date codes on the transformers?

 

[larryderouin]

No Eia info that I can find.

FISHER Part #'s off transformers

POWER
T-1020-124A
1005517

OUTPUT
T-1020-116-1AX
9264388

 

[monkboughtlunch]

No Eia info that I can find.

FISHER Part #'s off transformers

POWER
T-1020-124A
1005517

OUTPUT
T-1020-116-1AX
9264388

Is there a way to date the transformers without the EIA?

 

[larryderouin]

Not really that i know of. If they are on a chassis, look for a date code on the larger caps, or on the chassis itself. The 48001 series came out as early as 1965-66. We've always based dating on the original 1963 model year. Figure 10000 to 20000 per year based on FISHER coming out with a new manual every 10000, and the overwhelming popularity of the 400 at the time. This is subject to conjecture (a lot of it, but the numbers somewhat bear this out.) If you find one from an original owner and have all the paperwork, and all original tubes, you can date it to within 6 months with the tubes dates and the paperwork. That's as close as you'll get without FISHERS production floor paperwork and from what we've been able to figure, it got trashed after the 1979 quake in Northridge California.

 

[larryderouin]

Total conjecture here as the 7 digit # doesn't make sense to me at this point the way EIA in the 1994 book says it should.

Take my output transformers # of 9264388. Manufacturer #926 is PCSI (Pacific Communication Sciences Inc), San Diego. If you use the next 3 digits, then it makes sense 438 would equate to 1964, and 38th week (late Sept or Early Oct.).

The POWER Transformer has a EIA of 1005517. There is no 100 in the EIA codes that i can find, so I used 1005 instead. 1005 is 1005 *Northlake Engineering, Inc., Bristol, WI. The 517 is 1965 and 17th week (early April).

Give it 3-4 months for the parts to make it thru the logistics popeline to the build plant, the unit to get built, shipped to the store, and sold. So I presume mine was sold late July - Early August 1965.

Of course, if my research is incorrect all bets are off.

monk; Get the 1994 EIA date code booklet here.......... www.audiophool.com/Misc/1994 EIA Codes.pdf The codes are generally good back to the late 40's from what I've been able to check.