Good conical carts for the 1200?

[malden]

So I got my AT5625 set up on my 1200 and it's too light.
I need the counterweight all the way up front, and even then the most TF I get is 1.8.
I'd like to get closer to the 2.5 max for the cartridge.

Any ideas, other than taping a penny to the headshell?

FYI, there are Technics head-shell clones that weigh 2 grams more than the stock head-shells....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement...275596?hash=item4d3677630c:g:JWcAAOSwDk5Tvn6w

 

[jrtrent]

Great info thank you.
I've previously used a Shure M44G and an AT 120E. Both of these balanced correctly with room to spare.

Now onto some azimuth confusion. I swear the cartridge is tilted slightly to the left.
I've googled 1200 azimuth and of course another rabbit hole to lose myself in.
Ha.

Both the M44 and AT120E are listed as weighing 6.5 grams, so have plenty of weight for your arm. I have no means of weighing my CN5625AL cartridge, but the exact specification hardly matters when you've already empirically discovered the problem and cured it. As to azimuth, if you've already adjusted the arm height so that it's level when a record is being played, and the problem still persists, you could always use a thin washer between the cartridge and headshell to tilt it slightly in the needed direction. I had a Denon without arm height adjustment, and something about the bearing design caused the headshell to angle down to the left as the arm is lifted higher. While azimuth was correct with the short, stock cartridge, for the taller Sumiko body, I used a thin washer between the body and headshell on one side to get proper azimuth.

 

[gusten]

Been listening to the AT VM3 for a bit now, have also done some measurements. I have been comparing it to my AT13. My opinion is that it´s surprisingly good; it has a lot of the character in common with AT13, very neutral, flat freq response and low distortion. On some music they are not that easy to tell apart, on some inner grooves one can hear it´s a conical.
It´s better than I thought it to be. One is the VM3, the other is the AT13.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aszablod3lnjd3q/#5.wav.wav?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg718oz9dhijbtc/#6.wav?dl=0

 

[tubewade]

.

Been listening to the AT VM3 for a bit now, have also done some measurements. I have been comparing it to my AT13. My opinion is that it´s surprisingly good; it has a lot of the character in common with AT13, very neutral, flat freq response and low distortion. On some music they are not that easy to tell apart, on some inner grooves one can hear it´s a conical.
It´s better than I thought it to be. One is the VM3, the other is the AT13.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aszablod3lnjd3q/#5.wav.wav?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg718oz9dhijbtc/#6.wav?dl=0

I can relate, gusten. It is just as you say, "On some music/records." Imagine my surprise, too, when I first heard a conical after listening to only elliptical or better styli for some 20+ years, thinking conicals were no good. I've changed my opinion about that. It really depends a lot on the age and condition of the record. Thank you for those WAV uploads. I've listened to all six of them repeatedly.

 

[tubewade]

So I got my AT5625 set up on my 1200 and it's too light.
I need the counterweight all the way up front, and even then the most TF I get is 1.8.
I'd like to get closer to the 2.5 max for the cartridge.

Any ideas, other than taping a penny to the headshell?

The CN5625AL was too light to balance on my Linn Ittok arm, too. I used a 1 gram headshell weight that I got from the same shop I bought the cartridge from. That's the flat type that you simply install between the cartridge body and the headshell. I agree that it works better tracking a bit heavier. I liked mine at 2.25 grams.

Edit: Looks like you already solved the problem. I'm not sure which 1200 you've got, but the specs I read for the SL1200 Mk I said 4.5 grams is the lightest cartridge it's designed to work with. AT's specs don't give the weight for the CN5625AL, but I know it was too light for me, too.

I know the problem has already been solved, but for future reference the CN5625, aka AT3600, weighs in at 5.03 grams, so on the lighter side, but not all that light.

 

[gusten]

As for the #3 and #4, they are at the most inner grooves and the recording aren´t optimal by any means. A very difficult tracking for any styli. #4 is the 0.5mil conical, which I think can be heard.

 

[tubewade]

As for the #3 and #4, they are at the most inner grooves and the recording aren´t optimal by any means. A very difficult tracking for any styli. #4 is the 0.5mil conical, which I think can be heard.

It is still very good, though. The congestion brought on at those last moments is rather a lot less than one might expect from a conical stylus. On many records that are not so difficult to reproduce that could likely go completely unnoticed.

 

[gusten]

OK, one last piece from the AudioTechnica VM3. 'Froh' seems suitable this time of the year.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8zn6g1skupxas4/Froh.VM3-5D.wav?dl=0

 

[Ambien Gnome]

Anyway,
This 5625 sounds so great.
Anything I throw at it.
Sounds as great as my AT120.

Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[SSaxdude]

It certainly sounds better than how a $20 conical cart should sound. I almost always have one in my arsenal of carts, though my most recent one ended up on a table I sold.

 

[malden]

It certainly sounds better than how a $20 conical cart should sound. I almost always have one in my arsenal of carts, though my most recent one ended up on a table I sold.

What should a $20.00 conical cartridge sound like?

 

[SSaxdude]

What should a $20.00 conical cartridge sound like?

It's somewhat unchartered territory, seeing as how so few in production carts sell for $20 or under these days. I will say, the CN5625AL has provided me with more listening pleasure than carts costing more.

 

[malden]

Well I've been using this $22.00, .6 mil conical in my Shure M75 cartridge and it sounds as good as any of the self-proclaimed ellipticals that cost twice as much...

http://www.jico-stylus.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1577

 

[SSaxdude]

Well I've been using this $22.00, .6 mil conical in my Shure M75 cartridge and it sounds as good as any of the self-proclaimed ellipticals that cost twice as much...

http://www.jico-stylus.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1577

I would love to try one of the Jico conical's for a Shure cart, I just can't justify the shipping cost for one stylus. I'll wait to order a few at once.

 

[malden]

I would love to try one of the Jico conical's for a Shure cart, I just can't justify the shipping cost for one stylus. I'll wait to order a few at once.

That's the way I do it. It's well worth the wait.

 

[jrtrent]

Anyway,
This 5625 sounds so great.
Anything I throw at it.
Sounds as great as my AT120.

I had been enjoying the M97xE on a Linn turntable for a while when my local dealer stopped carrying them. Just to have something to play, I bought a CN5625AL from him. At the time, list price was $39, and he referred to it as his "bread and butter" cartridge, saying it always sounded good on anything he mounted it to and made his customers very happy. In my system, I found it to have a lively, engaging sound but without the somewhat bright, lean characteristic I heard in some other AT models I had tried (AT95E, AT120E/T, AT440ML). When I bought my current Rega RP3 turntable, I had ordered a Rega Bias 2 for it, but enjoying records with that combination proved difficult. After a month or so of frustration, I mounted a CN5625AL and fell in love with the RP3. After auditioning several other options, I settled in on the M97xE as my favorite for this 'table, but I could live quite happily with the cheap AT. I've had one in Linn, Well Tempered, Stanton, Rega, and Denon turntables, and it never failed to give satisfying performance.

 

[Starquest]

You want to hear a good conical?*

Recently got my hands on this, a Technics 270C. They aren't at all common in the US (really, none of the standard-mount Technics carts are common here). I ordered the only reasonably-priced stylus I could find, a Pfanstiehl 706-D7.

This thing kicks all kinds of ass. Nice clear sound, big output, punchy. Tracks awesome at 1.5g -- it passed my Tycho torture test with flying colours.

* - I have no way of knowing if it really is a conical, but it sounds indistinguishable from all the Pfanstiehl ellipticals I've bought for all my AT carts. It has plenty of detail. Can't recommend it enough.

 

[wualta]

I don't have an ADC K8C, but the K8 (which I do have) is surprisingly good for a bottom-of-the-K-line model. I'll risk repeating myself: Pritchard's basic design scaled up (to the ZLM) and down (QLM 30) equally well, using the same basic materials, so even the cheapies sound decent, though they don't have the finesse of the top models. ADC made some nice finesse-y conicals, but they're all too compliant for best results in the SL-1200 arm, in my opinion.

The K8 styli (there are three: K8, K8C and K8E) were made in the US, then Japan. Specs are similar: recommended starting VTF would be 2.0 to 2.5g. They're not expensive, originals are still available, and the bright-blue trimmed K bodies are easy to spot on auction sites. The K8C's plastic bits are a dark gray-green for some reason and the magnet is flat, not channeled. Avoid the blue K8 made in Japan-- hard to fathom, but it's simply not made as well.

Caveat: you may spot the RC398-DP combination of ADC headshell and K8C cartridge. It looks good at first glance, and it will sound good, but then you spot where the cartridge body's mounting holes are, far forward of normal, making the special RC398 headshell mandatory. In other words, you have to use it pretty much as-is. No ability to try different alignments. The stylus, however, can be used on any low-inductance XLM-style body, and the headshell is also usable with other cartridges.

 

[wualta]

Popping this thread up to make a quick report on a conical suited to the 1200's arm (virtually the same as the arm on my 1700 Mk 2): Shure's N97B stylus for the old Era IV M97, SC39 and RXT-4 bodies.

0.6 mil bonded conical, tracks well at the recommended 2g net VTF, has the Dynamic Stabilizer brush and telescoped cantilever, tracks better at its recommended VTF than its stablemates M97ED/HE do at theirs. Good sound that can be had (for now) from a trusted online retailer for $35 + ship.