restorer-john
Addicted Member
OK, I disagree with the following:
Kenwood 700c. If you are going to put the 700c in, you also need to put the Pioneer Spec1, the Kenwood L07c and the Sony TAE86B, they are all equivalent TOTL products with similar or better specs and performance. Realistically, they were all TOTL at the time, but have been long since bettered in just about every performance parameter since. The Yamaha C1 is in the same boat (let's just put as many controls on one box as we can so wealthy people can show off their home system that has more dials and switches than Cape Canaveral mission control- it was never about pushing the performance boundaries- Sony did that with the 86B by leaving all the superfluous crap off the pre-amplifier in the pursuit of ultimate performance)
Harmon Kardon Citation which model? The Citation XX definitely. There has never been a better one, so all the previous Citations are by logic excluded IMO.
Kenwood 700M. Same reasons as above, include the equivalent power TOTL classic poweramps from Pioneer and Sony. But really, they were all about power, not finesse- the whole lot of them. That came later in the 1980s.
Ampzilla and Son of Ampzilla. People loved them because of their name. They did not outperform TOTL amps from Japanese manufacturers of the same era. Refer High Fidelity annual test reports from 1978/9/80. They are a physical mess inside, barely better than a DIY effort. Cheaply made, horrible cabinetry and noisy (fan/transformer) and no fun to repair.
If you've got an Onkyo Grand Integra M510, which I think is fair enough, we've jumped firmly into the late 1980s and there's a truckload of high performance statement amplifiers that are infinitely better than many on your list. Where is the Yamaha MX10000? Where is the Pioneer M90/91? (a way better amplifier than any of the Specs). Go forward a few more years and you've got Sony's TAN1. And where is the highest end Japanese amplifiers over the last 30 years- Accuphase's various models- all magnificent? What about Luxman and Denon's statement pieces from 1980-1995?
KEF concerto's are not deserving of being in the list. They were sold primarily as kit speakers and they are not much of a speaker to listen to, regardless of the factory the cabinets were made in. I've pulled countless drivers out of those horrible speakers and parted them out over the years.
And Yamaha's NS1000, 2000 and 10000 speakers are all high end. They always were. Sony had the SSG777es and the SSG333es in 1987, more high end speakers, but unknown outside Japan. I have a pair of SSG333es and they are high end, but the SSG777es were even higher end, so by logic mine are ruled out.
The little BBC LS3/5a is another one that is a cute little speaker that punches above its weight- that's all. It isn't high end. How could they be on the list and Infinity IRS Vs or Yamaha NS1000Xs not be?
It's a difficult thing proposing a list like this as people blurt out their favourite pride and joy pieces.
Why not just pick the very best from each manufacturer, the very best they ever made and nothing else? Then decided which are worthy of the final list.
Kenwood 700c. If you are going to put the 700c in, you also need to put the Pioneer Spec1, the Kenwood L07c and the Sony TAE86B, they are all equivalent TOTL products with similar or better specs and performance. Realistically, they were all TOTL at the time, but have been long since bettered in just about every performance parameter since. The Yamaha C1 is in the same boat (let's just put as many controls on one box as we can so wealthy people can show off their home system that has more dials and switches than Cape Canaveral mission control- it was never about pushing the performance boundaries- Sony did that with the 86B by leaving all the superfluous crap off the pre-amplifier in the pursuit of ultimate performance)
Harmon Kardon Citation which model? The Citation XX definitely. There has never been a better one, so all the previous Citations are by logic excluded IMO.
Kenwood 700M. Same reasons as above, include the equivalent power TOTL classic poweramps from Pioneer and Sony. But really, they were all about power, not finesse- the whole lot of them. That came later in the 1980s.
Ampzilla and Son of Ampzilla. People loved them because of their name. They did not outperform TOTL amps from Japanese manufacturers of the same era. Refer High Fidelity annual test reports from 1978/9/80. They are a physical mess inside, barely better than a DIY effort. Cheaply made, horrible cabinetry and noisy (fan/transformer) and no fun to repair.
If you've got an Onkyo Grand Integra M510, which I think is fair enough, we've jumped firmly into the late 1980s and there's a truckload of high performance statement amplifiers that are infinitely better than many on your list. Where is the Yamaha MX10000? Where is the Pioneer M90/91? (a way better amplifier than any of the Specs). Go forward a few more years and you've got Sony's TAN1. And where is the highest end Japanese amplifiers over the last 30 years- Accuphase's various models- all magnificent? What about Luxman and Denon's statement pieces from 1980-1995?
KEF concerto's are not deserving of being in the list. They were sold primarily as kit speakers and they are not much of a speaker to listen to, regardless of the factory the cabinets were made in. I've pulled countless drivers out of those horrible speakers and parted them out over the years.
And Yamaha's NS1000, 2000 and 10000 speakers are all high end. They always were. Sony had the SSG777es and the SSG333es in 1987, more high end speakers, but unknown outside Japan. I have a pair of SSG333es and they are high end, but the SSG777es were even higher end, so by logic mine are ruled out.
The little BBC LS3/5a is another one that is a cute little speaker that punches above its weight- that's all. It isn't high end. How could they be on the list and Infinity IRS Vs or Yamaha NS1000Xs not be?
It's a difficult thing proposing a list like this as people blurt out their favourite pride and joy pieces.
Why not just pick the very best from each manufacturer, the very best they ever made and nothing else? Then decided which are worthy of the final list.
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