Goodwill find #2 Big Kenwoods

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On the floor right beside the Dynacos sat this pair of Kenwood KL-888X speakers. 15' woofers. This does not show up in my blue book. Any ideas?

Ken
 
OK, last one. A close up of the works. Guys, you have to know that I was grinning all the way home with these two pair in the back of the truck!

Ken
 
If those were to show up in a Canadian thrift shop they'd have a $175.00/pr price tag on'em plus taxes extra. I'm not kidding.
I saw an 8-track/turntable/receiver without the matching satellite speakers recently at a thrift store and it had a $65.00 price tag on it. Like Helloooooooooooooooooo!:withstpd: :twak:

I literally get significantly better stuff at my local landfill site on very rare occasions (maybe once or twice a year) than I could ever find at a Canadian thrift shop.

You have no idea how I envy you good Americans your treasure stocked thrift shops.

Rob
 
I agree with Rob. The "Kabuki" speakers (Japanese speakers with fretwork grills, 15"+ woofers and a half dozen misc drivers) command much more in Canadian thrift shops than my opinion of their worth. But then, I'm not a fan. In the immortal words of Bart Simpson, I find them "Craptacular".

Read the following if you want an idea of the engineering behind such speakers.

http://decware.com/paper10.htm

These systems were literally designed by marketing departments and not engineers. It appeals to those that insist bigger is better. Therefore, the biggest possible woofer is used in the smallest possible box that will accept it. More is also better - so more and more drivers are added just for visual appeal. Their design goes against every principle I hold in speaker quality.

Nonetheless, if you like them, far be it fo me to disuade you from your preference. Enjoy.
 
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Hey now, ...be nice on the Kenwoods.

I still have (my son's using them) a pair of KL-888A'a I got last summer in the "Kenwood" score I found.

My pair are similar, but have horns for the highs. and you can hear the clairty of the highs. I got them real cheap, have maybe $50 in the pair, and they're hard to beat for $50

No question there's better speakers than the Kenwoods, but they have real good range, and full sound for a small investment.

He had a pair of Pioneer CS-88As, but likes the Kenwoods better.

Most of the KL-888's were sold through the US military PX's.
 
Thanks for the info Rob, Don and Shain. My intent is to clean them up a bit and find someone who will enjoy them more. I agree about the sound Don. They sound OK, but nothing like my HPM-100s and L-80Ts. At least I can save them from the Goodwill and help get them to the right person.

This hobby is so addicting now that I have trouble passing a thrift store anymore without wondering what kind of vintage audio equipment might be sitting on the shelf just waiting to follow me home...:p:

Ken
 
I would be SOLIDLY in Mr. McR's camp regarding the sonic value of just about every Japanese designed speaker I have ever heard. 15" woofs with 40wpc power handling and a 50Hz -3db point. What's with that?


Toasted Almond
 
I agree with the white paper from Don McR (or at least the link he had posted). I even had a pair of the speakers in the paper - they were completely fake. However, the ones you have were made before the switch to the cheap components. I can't find any specs for the 888X but the 888S was a 5 way, 16 in. woofer, freq. response of 20-22khz, and handled 260 watts.

Have not heard the 888's but have a pair of 999's that look very similar and they sound great.
 
I agree with Rob,Canadian thrift shops are only good if you want an old shirt to wear while you are painting the house!!

Alan
 
I respectfully disagree on the design quality of the Kenwood KL-888X or any of the earlier “kabuki” speakers of the 60's and 70’s. I stand by my assertion that their primary design criteria were visual marketing issues and not acoustic engineering.

To understand the rise of these speakers, you have to understand the influence of American speakers, and JBL in particular, in the Japanese market. Starting in the 1960’s, JBL started officially importing their speakers into Japan using Sansui as their distributor. Even before this, Japanese individuals had been buying JBL products and importing them in significant numbers. JBL, and to a lesser extent, Altec and EV found great demand and almost a cult like following for their products. An example of this high regard is found in a 2001 survey conducted by Stereo Sound Japan – that country’s most influential audio magazine. The survey asked 25 of Japan’s most preeminent reviewers and audiophiles to name the most influential audio product of the last 100 years. This could be anything in the audio chain from source, electronics to speakers. 17 of these survey participants named a JBL product.

With this high a profile in the Japanese market, it was no surprise, that starting in the 1960’s, the Japanese domestic companies decided to copy the visual aspects of the highly revered JBL’s, Altec’s and EV’s. Of all the JBL components, the D130 had perhaps the highest regard since it was one of the few JBL products personally designed by Jim Lansing (fits in with a Japanese cult of personality). It also embodied the sound character that their market prized - ultra quick, with exemplary dynamics. The D130 is not known for deep bass, and the speakers that copied it were, not surprisingly restricted in deep bass. What was copied was the 15” diameter and the aluminum center dome like that found on the 888X.

The copies were abominations from an engineering perspective. These companies (Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, Sony and others) designed their speakers for the mass market so all of the costly engineering was cut, while keeping the visual similarities. The magnetic motors have only a fraction of the energy of the originals. The cones were made ultra light to compensate. As a result, they are easily driven to break-up and have high levels of distortion. The majority used ceramic magnets compared to the Alnico originals. Ceramic motors have higher levels of distortion compared to Alnico unless engineered out. These differences were not known until the late 70’s so all of the earlier ceramics have higher distortion.

More troubling was the system engineering – there was none. The goal was to copy as many speaker clichés as possible to give the appearance of quality. For example, look at the 15” driver in the 888X. It has a metal center dome just like a D130. On the D130, the purpose is to extend high frequency response. In system design, it meant that the driver could be run full range or with just a small tweeter crossed over at a relatively high frequency. The 888X woofer is part of a 5-way system crossed over at a low frequency. The aluminum dome would never come into play and is just there for looks.

The multicellular horn is no better. Horns are designed for controlled dispersion to minimize room effects. The American systems are carefully designed so that the directionality of the woofer matches that of the horn at the cross-over frequency for maximum coherence. There is no such matching on the Kabuki speakers. Narrow dispersion horns are combined with wide dispersion cone and dome tweeters so that there is no control. I can go on and on about the use of multiple drivers covering the same frequency range in close proximity causing interference and cross-over discontinuities from 5-way systems, but I think you get the point. Acoustics has taken a far back seat to marketing in these designs.

Just to reinforce this point, look at what happened when acoustic engineering took a front seat with the Japanese manufacturers beginning in the late 70's. The five and six way systems were gone, replaced by systems that were seldom more than three-way. Instead of large flimsy boxes, you have smaller solidly built and braced boxes that are accoustically inert. The useless 15" drivers in small boxes were mainly replaced with 12" and smaller drivers. Nonetheless, these new systems (Yamaha NS1000, Pioneer HPM100, Technics SB8000) had greater extension at both frequency extremes, greater output and much flatter frequency response.

What's interesting is to check out the largest Japanese used audio website at:

http://free.happynet.co.jp/hifi/

There is an English search page here:

http://free.happynet.co.jp/hifi/old_db/esearch5.html

If you search for the Japanese Kabuki speakers, for the most part you will not find them. The few that are there such as this:

http://free.happynet.co.jp/cgi-bin/...?model_no=02-12804-10279-00-2002-08-17&lang=e

sell for less than $100/pr. In comparison, the classic JBL's and Altecs sell for for thousands of dollars per pair. In other words, there is no market for these systems in Japan.
 
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How many db were they down at 20Hz? I'll bet the farm that it was 260 watts of "music" power, and not RMS power. But if those speakers are somebody's cup of tea, that's all that counts. I'm not a JBL fanatic by any stretch either. Not because they weren't accurate, or certainly more robust than the offshore jobs. I always preferred the acoustic suspension designs from AR, KLH, and Advent to any JBL I ever heard. A matter of taste for sure. But the largest of what Mr. McR describes as the "Kabuki" speaks, couldn't hold a candle to an 8" AR-6 two-way. Or many other competently engineered smaller speakers as well.

While I'm here, and while you're here Mr. McR, any leads on where I can pick up a mid for a JBL L-96? Got a pair going to waste here.

Toasted Almond
 
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I guess you're right. But it takes a certain kind of person to accept un-extended bass from a 15".
 
While I'm here, and while you're here Mr. McR, any leads on where I can pick up a mid for a JBL L-96? Got a pair going to waste here.

Do you actually have to get a new driver? You can repair virtually any JBL driver with factory parts.
 
Yes, someone who appreciates fine furniture, and "looking" at their speakers. The Wife Acceptance Factor of yesteryear.

Toasted Almond
 
Mr McR.,

One of the mids has a rip in the paper. Barely noticeable, but it's there at acceptable volume levels. You have a fix for that sir? I remember seeing an exact replacement for $93 a while ago, but just where I saw it is escaping my feeble mind.

Toasted Almond
 
Small tears in cones can generally be fixed with a DIY repair if looks are not the primary issue. I have not done this myself, so I'll leave it to others to jump in with suggestions. If you want a repair back to new condition, you have to get the midrange driver reconed. This is not that cheap since it has to be done through a JBL factory authorized service center using factory parts. The replacement cone is still in JBL's inventory.

You can usually find an authorized JBL repair center by looking in the Yellow pages for Stereo - Repair and Service.
 
Hey guys...not all thrifts are bad in Canada. I have picked up in Canadian SA..

JBL 4333AWX ($175.00 Canadian)
AR 4AX ($15.00 Canadian)
Sansui SP-5500 ($50.00 Canadian)
Altec Model 9's ($40.00 Canadian
JBL L-26 ($15.00 Canadian)
Karlson K-15 with EV 12TRX ($75.00 Canadian)

Of course most of them needed a little TLC to get up and running, but thats what I love about vintage gear.

I've sold all but the 4333's and the Karlson used for mono jazz recordings. Keep em' peeled.:eek:
 
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