Grace 707 repair advice please !

Markoneswift

Markoneswift

Quartz locked n ready to rock
Hi all,

I have a Grace 707 mounted to my Thorens TD160, but the original headshell is missing. A crappy ADC unit had been glued in its place which I have now removed so I have a bare arm tube.

I'm thinking of picking up a spares / repairs 707 from the 'bay and then transplanting the arm tube, wiring and headshell onto my setup - does anyone have experience of swapping arm tubes on Grace arms?

My other options are pricey - replace the arm, repair the existing tube with new wire / Hadcock headshell etc.

Any thoughts at all ? There's a parts 707 on Ebay right now for $129 (with headshell) so is it worth a transplant ? I really doubt my budget would stretch to a full arm swap right now.

Cheers
 
Yes it's worth it. A working 707 can go for $300 bucks. It really is a nice arm for high compliance cartridges. It also works well with some med compliance cartridges.
 
I've pulled apart my broken arm - I removed the arm from the base, removed the lifter support / antiskate support platform and disconnected the wiring loom. Once the new arm arrives, it should be a matter of reconnecting the loom, setting height in the base, reattach antiskate weight chord, install cartridge and balance it up.
 
I likes my Grace.

If you can source a Grace cartridge once the arm is ready the synergy of an arm with the cartridge designed for it is special.

20161119_170011.jpg

I have 2 Grace cartridges, both stylus are interchangeable, here it's running the Custom stylus.
20181007_171230.jpg
 
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Markoneswift said:
I'll be running the P77 for a while because I just don't have the $$ to go cartridge shopping right now. Saying that, the P77 does need a new stylus, so........
Click to expand...
These guys sell new replacement styli for the P77, original specs (parabolic stylus). I recently emailed them looking for a stylus for an Arcam E77 and got a reply, so they're in business and the prices are current.
Not cheap but neither is a Grace cartridge. Although I had an F9 Ruby rebuilt by Soundsmith and wish I still had it.
https://garrottbrothers.com/repairs-retipping
 
^Please note that the Garrott brothers themselves are long dead (a very sad and haunting story in itself) but this new company did acquire the tooling and rights to the name. I have no basis on which to judge the quality of their products in any way, just saying this to state the facts.

Expert Stylus in the UK also sell replacement styli. Very oddly though, they do not have a website. Yes, Google will find one, but that's a different business focusing on 78s. Expert made the styli for the A&R Cambridge 77, which used the same cartridge body. Here's some info from over on the LH forum, current as of July of 2018.

Thank you for your email. Our latest prices for the A&R assemblies are:
E77 .... GBP£65.00
P77 .... GBP£87.00 (fitted with Extended Contact profile diamond:
P77 .... GBP£105.00 (fitted with low mass Paratrace profile diamond)
The Paratrace profile will give you improved analysis and trackability.
Prices are inclusive of VAT, please add £10.00 for insured shipping.
Delivery: 2-3 weeks from confirmation of order
Payment: by credit card, please telephone with card details

Kind regards
Expert Stylus & Cartridge Co
Telephone No: +44(0)1372 276604
Click to expand...

And their email is info "at" expertstylus.co.uk
 
bang4buck said:
^Please note that the Garrott brothers themselves are long dead (a very sad and haunting story in itself) but this new company did acquire the tooling and rights to the name. I have no basis on which to judge the quality of their products in any way, just saying this to state the facts.

Expert Stylus in the UK also sell replacement styli. Very oddly though, they do not have a website. Yes, Google will find one, but that's a different business focusing on 78s. Expert made the styli for the A&R Cambridge 77, which used the same cartridge body. Here's some info from over on the LH forum, current as of July of 2018.



And their email is info "at" expertstylus.co.uk
Click to expand...

That's good info, cheers. The only thing I need to work out now is what cartridge I actually have (or are all P77 dervatives the same?)

20190319_195518.jpg 20190319_195604.jpg
 
Markoneswift said:
The only thing I need to work out now is what cartridge I actually have (or are all P77 dervatives the same?)
Click to expand...

I believe so but I would recommend finding some more confirmation with a search here and over on Lenco Heaven. The story is long and complicated but IIRC there were a lot of cartridges based on the same body, which was in fact made by Excel (now known for their Hana line of affordable MC cartridges). I've never owned any of them personally, so it's just what I remember reading here and there. The Arcam incarnation came in C77, E77 and P77 flavors, which not surprisingly stands for conical, elliptical and parabolic stylus.

There's also this site with some good info from a British perspective: https://zstereo.co.uk/2014/10/27/arcam-e77/
 
This is unbelievable ! After buying a 'parts arm' Grace 707 from Ebay US and paying for the shipping, a beautiful and barely used FULLY WORKING and complete 707 arm came up on our local auction site for LESS MONEY! This never happens - typical, we see SME arms every now and then but I've never seen a Grace arm come up. Just when I need one, and get one from overseas, I could have got one locally if I had just waited a bit. Absolutely typical of my luck right now.
 
Markoneswift said:
That's good info, cheers. The only thing I need to work out now is what cartridge I actually have (or are all P77 dervatives the same?)

View attachment 1456786 View attachment 1456787
Click to expand...
I have an Arcam E77 and it's an excellent cartridge. Tracks at 2 grams. One odd quirk, it always seems to need a side or two to "warm up" before it starts to sing. Garrott Brothers used Arcam bodies, the P77 had a parabolic stylus.
The cartridge itself is the same, only the stylus is different a la modern Audio Technica practice.
New replacement styli are still being made by the company that took over for Garrott Brothers. $400 for a new parabolic stylus, $200 for an elliptical.
Shure N91 styli will fit also, so there's the JICO SAS as a possible replacement.
JICO used to have a cartridge line based on the Arcam/Garrott cartridge but it's OOP.
The Arcam/Garrott looks similar to the Sumiko Oyster/Pearl/Black Pearl and LP Gear DEFT carts, but I tried a DEFT2 stylus on my Arcam. The fit is too loose, to the point that I worried about it pulling out while it was playing.
The ancestry of the Arcam/Garrott is up in the air IMO. Some sources say Supex made them, which Arcam denied, others Excel, and one of the Inmates at VA told me Grace made the cartridges and they were the same as the Grace F-8.
At any rate, I'd be pleased as punch to have a Garrott in my cartridge box.
 
olddude55 said:
I have an Arcam E77 and it's an excellent cartridge. Tracks at 2 grams. One odd quirk, it always seems to need a side or two to "warm up" before it starts to sing. Garrott Brothers used Arcam bodies, the P77 had a parabolic stylus.
The cartridge itself is the same, only the stylus is different a la modern Audio Technica practice.
New replacement styli are still being made by the company that took over for Garrott Brothers. $400 for a new parabolic stylus, $200 for an elliptical.
Shure N91 styli will fit also, so there's the JICO SAS as a possible replacement.
JICO used to have a cartridge line based on the Arcam/Garrott cartridge but it's OOP.
The Arcam/Garrott looks similar to the Sumiko Oyster/Pearl/Black Pearl and LP Gear DEFT carts, but I tried a DEFT2 stylus on my Arcam. The fit is too loose, to the point that I worried about it pulling out while it was playing.
The ancestry of the Arcam/Garrott is up in the air IMO. Some sources say Supex made them, which Arcam denied, others Excel, and one of the Inmates at VA told me Grace made the cartridges and they were the same as the Grace F-8.
At any rate, I'd be pleased as punch to have a Garrott in my cartridge box.
Click to expand...

It's odd because I see no branding on the cartridge at all. It's gold bodied with a black serrated top. The opening (technical term??) for the stylus shank is fully in the front but I see on some of the AR carts then opening is patially in the front and partially on the underside. I see a replacement stylus available locally for the Shure N91ed / N91 / etc and it's reasonably priced - I might just pick it up to try, so at least I will know whether the cart works or not before buying something better. Only caveat is, I've read that not all of these 'compatible' stylii are truly compatible so it could be a crap shoot......
 
bang4buck said:
Can you swing it if you sell the other two for parts?
Click to expand...

Well I was thinking along those lines, maybe. The arm I have - the broken one - is matt black. The parts arm I bought is bare metal. If I put the good parts from my arm together with the new arm, I will have a half and half black / metal affair which might look a bit odd. The one which has just come up for sale is all bare metal and looks lovely - it would suit the polshed platter and top plate of the Thorens better than black IMO.

So, maybe I could go the route of making a good arm from parts and selling it - keeping the price realistic might help too :)
 
Markoneswift said:
It's odd because I see no branding on the cartridge at all. It's gold bodied with a black serrated top. The opening (technical term??) for the stylus shank is fully in the front but I see on some of the AR carts then opening is patially in the front and partially on the underside. I see a replacement stylus available locally for the Shure N91ed / N91 / etc and it's reasonably priced - I might just pick it up to try, so at least I will know whether the cart works or not before buying something better. Only caveat is, I've read that not all of these 'compatible' stylii are truly compatible so it could be a crap shoot......
Click to expand...
I made the guy post a pic of the N91 stylus in the Arcam body.
Garrott Brothers carts should say "Dynamic Coil" on the cartridge body above where the stylus inserts.

Garrott P77.jpg
 
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