Grado Gold...I've really, really, really tried....

RickB

On the Road to Find Out
Subscriber
To like this cartridge with my setup...but, it just won't seem to jell with any of my turntables, my preamp...or my listening tastes...

To back up a bit, I've been feeling lately like I have been giving the Grado Prestige Gold a short shrift and not really letting it strut its stuff, or live up to it's true potential...so, for the past three weeks I have been taking this cartridge which I felt was already broken in and playing it non-stop day and night on clean vinyl, cleaning the stylus properly with LP#9, Magic Eraser, and Stylast after each side, but really, letting the thing run in...

I've been using it with my Micro-Seki BL-51 with an Audio Technica ATP-12T tonearm...yeah, I know, might be too much arm for the Grado, but you gotta run what you brung, don'tcha...tonearm cable is one I custom made with a Cardas DIN plug, Cardas 2 X 21.5 Litz based cabling, and Cardas GRCM RCA plugs...preamp is my Audible Illusions Modulus 3A...amplifier is the Bryston 2B, and speakers this weekend were the BD Fostex based TQWP's I built a few years back and my venerable Ohm Walsh 2's....

This experiment was in response to comments about the cartridge needing a lot of run in time to sound it's best. Also, the VTA must be set up correctly, and tracking force, too...

The Audio Technica ATP-12T is really easy to set up, it uses a 50mm stylus mounting distance from the bayonet, and setting VTA is easily done by loosening a thumbscrew and moving the center column up and down.

I got the cartridge pretty much dialed in, that is, I got it to sound really pretty darn good and so for the past few days I have done no serious listening that wasn't done via vinyl and the Grado...I fiddled with this and faddled with that, but I did get the cartridge to sound as good as it can in my setup...

So, this morning I started out with a Dvorak Cello Concerto on Telefunken vinyl and thought that it sounded pretty good...on to some Mozart violin concertos on Angel, then a bit of "The Living Marimbas", and then on to Strunz and Farah "Guitarras"..hmm...then to Acoustic Alchemy's "Blue Chip"....well now, things were starting to get interesting...while there was good extension on the top end, there was a sense of murkiness to the midrange, that's about the only way I could describe it, kind of like being in the house of someone who smokes heavily and hasn't cleaned their windows in a decade or so...kind of an obscured, hazy "picture" of what was going on with the bodies of guitars, for instance....

So, due to the amazing world of interchangeable headshells, I took off the Grado and put on an AT 440ML/OCC...well...this was getting interesting, more clarity to the midrange, but it was only an incremental type thing...not like something that really made a whopping difference...now, in all fairness, the AT needs an album side at least to kind of "wake up" and start to strut it's stuff, but I was impatient and swapped it out, too....

I put on this cartridge that's got to be 25 or 30 years old, and hooked it up to a Signet MK10T MC transformer, and once again dropped the stylus into the groove...oh my...now THAT's what I'm talking about!

The midrange cleaned up and an incredible amount of clarity, without a trace of harshness or distortion or coldness, replaced what now was so obviously colored over from the Grado...the spatial attributes improved greatly, that feeling of the soundstage getting larger, more expansive, and losing the fog that now was shown to be there before from the Gold, instruments had a location, you could hear the sound of a guitar's strings vibrating with the kind of texture you hear when you sit close to someone actually playing an acoustic...the bass was even much better, deeper, tighter, more articulate, and the highs? Crystalline without the distortion that sometimes makes me wince on crescendos and peaks...in fact, it sounds to me as if the distortion products have dropped by a huge factor...snare drums, you could hear the sound of snares vibrating against the bottom head, not just some kind of "shiiish" sound, same with cymbals, you could hear the sound of the metal, not just the sssshhhhh....

The music just came alive, what was previously so obvious a recording, was now taking on life, clarity, reality, and making the den disappear even more...the performers were there, doing their stuff for me, and they were alive!

I really, really, really have tried to like the Grado Prestige Gold (mine's not the Gold1, but it is about a year or two old) and if I were unable to compare the cartridge to anything else, well then maybe it might be OK as I would be ignorant of the differences, and it truly is an unoffensive cartridge...but, in comparison to just about any MC and many of the other MM carts I have on hand from Shure, ADC, Acutex, Pickering, Stanton, Audio Technica, etc., I just don't see it...now, the Sonata, on the other hand, is a darn good cartridge, and my XTZ was pretty awesome, too...but, my tastes, my system, and my ears just don't work with the Prestige series of cartridges I'm afraid....

The Chesky Brahms Symphony #4 I just played was pretty amazing, it was like sitting in the Orchestra section 5 to 10 rows back...the Grado was more like sitting in the nosebleed section...and yes, I do go to the symphony at least a half dozen times a year...

Time now for a little jazz....

Well, no one can say I didn't give the Grado Gold a fair shake, that I didn't spend enough time with it, that I didn't try anything I could to make it sound as good as it could for me....nope, spent hours and hours trying to get that last little bit of performance out of it...and in the end, an old, low output MC cartridge spanked it's little bottom.....

The old cartridge?

A Denon DL-103S....and yes, the Signet transformer is not a perfect match for the cartridge's impedance, but it's what I have and what I used...and it doesn't suck at all...

Oh well...just another day in stereo land....

.
 
I don't know...

People always recommend that cartridge in fact needledoctor told me to get it for my ELAC. I have never heard anyone say anything good about it OR mention how to make it successful in any system!

Seems like a real issue given it's price. Maybe a purple or a yellow or a tan or an orange or pink Grado would be better. See where I am coming from?

They are the GM of cartridges I think....:thumbsdn:
 
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It is a matter of hearing things differently...not wrong or less than, simply different. Case in point...I loved the Grado Gold...I really like Grado in general and will chose one every time over a Shure M97xE, which many here really admire. So my advise is keep searching and more importantly listening and you will find a cartridge that you favor...This is exactly why there are so many choices in cartridges, we all hear things a little/lot differently...I have found my home in the world of low output carts and step up transformers...Is that right for you, who knows? Keep listening and you find one you really can live with and enjoy..good luck.
 
G'day all, an interesting thread. I'll admit straight up, that I have absolutely no personal experience with any Grado phono cartridge however based on everything I've read, I personally feel that they are very overrated.

Don't get me wrong, the Grado's have their fans, much like I'm a fan of the Shure M97xE and that cartridge has its detractors too, but it is rather difficult to ignore the somewhat negative comments made in reference to the Grado's such as 'hum' susceptibilty, mechanical underdamping, 'poorish' tracking ability, and a somewhat distinctive Grado 'sound'. But again, each to their own! Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
RickB, life's short, you gave it a shot and it didn't please your ears. Wish that things had turned out different for you given the amout of time and money you've invested...but.

Looking on the bright side you've discovered THE cartridge for your ears and system and I'll bet that you're really, really good at headshell changes and setup:D:yes::D. Preston
 
I'd say keep the 440 ifor the interim, sell your gold and signet and whatever other carts you have laying around and get yourself a Piccolo headamp for the 103.

http://www.hagtech.com/piccolo.html

then when the 103 gets long in the tooth send it off to soundsmith for retipping, If you are patient the headamp comes up on audiogon periodically (be fast!). Also consider a UWE wood body for the 103. These improvements will stun you. I heard the 103R with the soundsmith retip and UWE ebony thru a TD124 mk2 with SME 3009 arm with the piccolo and promptly ordered a 103r and wood body for my px3. My pre has plenty of gain so I dont need the headamp, but it would be perfect for your needs and isn't horribly expensive.
 
I'd say keep the 440 ifor the interim, sell your gold and signet and whatever other carts you have laying around and get yourself a Piccolo headamp for the 103.

http://www.hagtech.com/piccolo.html

then when the 103 gets long in the tooth send it off to soundsmith for retipping, If you are patient the headamp comes up on audiogon periodically (be fast!). Also consider a UWE wood body for the 103. These improvements will stun you. I heard the 103R with the soundsmith retip and UWE ebony thru a TD124 mk2 with SME 3009 arm with the piccolo and promptly ordered a 103r and wood body for my px3. My pre has plenty of gain so I dont need the headamp, but it would be perfect for your needs and isn't horribly expensive.
Now were talkin'...this is IMO very good advise.
here is a thread on this same subject...While a vast majority of the discussion on this forum deals in MM carts there are some of us who have chosen "The Dark Side"....:thmbsp:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=218671&highlight=103R
 
Several Years ago, I too tried to like the Grado Prestige Gold with my Thorens TD-160 but couldn't. Soon after, someone turned on to a Stanton 681EEE and it seemed to be a perfect marriage. NO hum, better tracking and smooth buttery sound. I do LOVE my Grado Headphones though.
 
Rick, thanks for sharing your experience, it certainly sounds like you gave the Gold every oppourtunity to show itself. Don't know if you remember but at one time I asked if you ever tried the Gold to please share your thoughts so here's a double thank you.

For whatever it's worth my first experience with the Gold was also disappointing, even after 100 hours break in. The problem for me was that I'd followed the often recommended mounting for the Grado (tail down 1.8G tracking) rather than Grados own recommendation. That change and switching from Baerwald to Stevenson null points opened up the midrange and the cartridge became instantly much more listenable to me. I have to thank Mr. Lin for the encouragement to experiment and it paid nice dividends.

Today I often listen to a Gold1 but rarely the Gold. There really is a difference and to my ears even the new Silver1 may sound as good or better than the original Gold. The Grado isn't for everyone and often I'll listen to other cartridgs too.
 
I enjoyed reading your review on the Grado. I got my Marantz 6100 a few days ago and had decided before it arrived to ditch the AT 71E that came on it but I am starting to like the sound of this cheap little cartridge. It seems like it is opening up all of a sudden especially after I adjusted the tracking to 1.5 grams.

Perhaps it was brand new and is starting to break in? who knows? I have been fiddling around with my turntable and almost got to the point of saying ehhh maybe vinyl isn't all that great. Then bang it just started to come together and sound decent.

I got a great deal on a vintage discwasher that is coming with a Realistc/Shure R27E.

I passed on a Stanton 500 with a Stanton headshell for 25 bucks today with one minute to go. I hope I get a chance to get one again sometime. I really want an 881 though or a 690 with a Shibata stylus.
 
Thanks for the replies, I did this just because I wanted to see if I was being fair in my assessment of the Grado Gold's sound...

To begin with, I have dozens of cartridges...all the way from the cheapest AT CN5625 to the Benz H20...this experiment was to see just where with my gear I felt like the Gold fit....I wasn't trying to bash the Gold, but just to give a comparison based on the fact that I have a large supply of cartridges and an even larger collection of styli...

The three low output MC's I have are the DL-103S, a DL-300, and the Linn Asak.

The three high output MC I have are the Ortofon X-3MC, an Audio Techninca AT-3200E and the Benz H20.

I have had Ortofon MC-10's, SAEC's, and Sumiko MC cartridges in the past...

I have Shure V-15 Type III's, IV's, V's, M3-D w/several styli, M-91, M97HE, M-75...etc...

Grados: Black, Blue, Red, Gold, XTZ, G1, FC, Sonata...

Pickerings, Stantons, Acutex, Ortofons, Pioneer....

And the list goes on....I also get to listen to a lot of cartridges and tables that I can never afford at my part-time job, so it's really hard to reconcile what some people have to say about some of the things I have heard and what my opinion of that may be...but then again, it's all based on experience...and fortunately or not, I have been screwing with this stuff for over 40 years and have been down many avenues in this pernicious hobby of ours!

It also may have to do with what I listen to...I recently got the LZ "Mothership" collection and started playing the first LP, after washing it and treating it with LAST, of course...well....I think that my system has too much resolution to really be able to enjoy rock the same way I did when Zep was here in concert back in 1972 or 73 (that's a looong time ago and a lot of dead brain cells in between!)...I guess the folks that have the receiver based systems of low acutance with tone controls to modify the frequency response, etc., like I had up until about 25 years ago, might have something when it comes to listening to rock...you polish out the rough edges...but I also listen for different things today compared to back then...

At that time, the drama was all it was about...hard hitting bass, sizzling highs, screamin' singers...no subtleties, all force, all rock, all the time....Zep, Floyd, Stones, AC/DC, Aerosmith, Tull, Creedence....

Today, though, I even listen for the silences between notes, for the sound of strings vibrating in the air, for the sound of snares vibrating against the bottom skin on a snare drum, the sound of a cymbal comprised of a stick strike, the body sound, and then the decay....I listen to the discrete elements that go together to make the whole performance, and if the elements don't go well together, if certain things are too subdued, if the timber is wrong, if the whole thing added up doesn't add up...if the elements don't go back together properly, then for me it gets boring...I have to be able to mentally deconstruct the piece while at the same time listening to it as a cohesive whole...a dichotomy, yes?

Too much of the rock that I have collected over the past 40 years just doesn't weather the ravages of time as well as Jazz and Classical have...come on, now, let's be fair, is Tiny Tim really a musical giant? Molly Hatchet? Frigid Pink? Siren? How about Culture Club....yes, LZ 1 and III are two of my favorite albums of all time...I do have a few hundred rock LP's that I have collected over the years, but I rarely play them any more, preferring the discovery of a jazz piece or a different interpretation of a classical selection that I never heard before, Half Price Books has been very, very good to me...or maybe it's just because so many of the classical and jazz LP's I have have much better production values than just about any of the mainstream rock records of the 60's, 70's and 80's? I realized a while back that most of the rock stuff was rushed out to market to make as big of a profit as soon as possible with as little outlay as possible...bad reordings, bad engineering, bad pressings....ho hum....

I guess that my exposition on the Grado Gold was just another journal of a trip down the audio avenue, written down for posterity, and for others to read and make up their own minds, I am sure not going to tell someone what to listen to, (hell, I even like harmonica music) but just to present my experiences past and current...

Now, I do feel totally different about the Sonata and above, those do have enough resolution to interest me in the music....

But,

My name is Rick and I am a moving coil addict...it had been 21 days since my last usage of an MC, today, though, I slipped...

And yes, that DL-103S IS long in the tooth...this is the Shibata stylus version that Denon made back when for CD-4 quadraphonic reproduction....so, it probably gives a pretty good representation of the DL-103 with a fine line contact styli...but it has always been taken care of and is in great shape....too bad Denon doesn't make this version any more, according to an old Stereo Review Buyer's Guide, the S version sold for only a few bucks more than the regular 103...but then again, those guides were sometimes quite wrong....

.
 
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My Technics SL-M3 linear tracker came with a new Grado Silver p-mount. I've tried out a bunch (at least a dozen) other p-mount cartridges on it, and am currently running an X1-MCP HOMC which I am very happy with. Been so long since I had the Silver on it, I need to try it out again.
 
I have a Technics SL1700 with a Grado Blue on it and a Technics SL1200 Mk2 with a Denon DL-110 on it.

I change between the two and here is what I found.

The Denon has a huge soundstage and wonderful detail but can make older records sound a bit harsh for want of a better word. It is brighter and tighter than the Grado.

The Grado has a very lush sound, makes the voices sound really smooth, the music just sort of flows out and is very non fatiguing to my ears.

I would not want to have just one or the other but like to be able to swap.

I have just bought a used Grado Gold to see how much of an improvement from the Blue for the SL1700 so I will report on it later when it arrives.

The Grado sound is very full and sweet, it reminds of what I remember from my early days listening to vinyl with tube amps and auto changers, a very laid back mellow sound and on a lot of older vinyl it makes them sound good to these old ears.

When I swap to the Denon I usually go wow there's a few more musicians in here now, it's more of an on the edge of your seat experience, not a sit back and relax, drift off and enjoy the ride type of thing.

It's the difference from riding in a BMW then hopping into a Cadillac, it's not the most precise ride but it smooths out most of the bumps.
 
G'day all, an interesting thread. I'll admit straight up, that I have absolutely no personal experience with any Grado phono cartridge however based on everything I've read, I personally feel that they are very overrated.

Catman, with all due respect, t''s pretty tough for me to rationalize that with virtually no experience of any Grado cartridge that you can say they are very over-rated.

This is like you saying that Beethoven is over-rated, when you have never heard a piece of music he has written.
 
Hey Puma Cat, you have a good point, but it's a bit like cars and other things that become 'known' for certain 'quirks'. 'Word' gets around I guess. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
The Grado has a very lush sound, makes the voices sound really smooth, the music just sort of flows out and is very non fatiguing to my ears.

I would not want to have just one or the other but like to be able to swap.

I have just bought a used Grado Gold to see how much of an improvement from the Blue for the SL1700 so I will report on it later when it arrives.

The Grado sound is very full and sweet, it reminds of what I remember from my early days listening to vinyl with tube amps and auto changers, a very laid back mellow sound and on a lot of older vinyl it makes them sound good to these old ears.
I have to agree with that description of the Grado sound/experience. That is how these Grado's appear to me as well...:thmbsp:
Catman, with all due respect, it's pretty tough for me to rationalize that with virtually no experience of any Grado cartridge that you can say they are very over-rated.
I was thinking just that same thing...Catman, this is not directed at you, as far as I know this is the first time I have read anything in this regard from you....That said, there seems to a rash of of this type of commenting here lately on AK...without firsthand experience of the gear being discussed it is better to not make such judgments or comments, they have little to no value without real life experience....:thumbsdn:
 
Over time, I've listened to Blacks, Blues, Reds, and Golds- not owned, but listened to. Wait, I did have a Black a long time ago. Anyway, I never cared for any of them. Not everyone is going to like everything they hear.
 
G'day all, I'm aware that Grado have long been 'innovators' in a sense, although others might be less complimentary. Does anyone remember a Grado phono cartridge from around 1957/8 that featured an interesting way to remove static charge from a record, by incorporating a exposed pellet of highly radioactive Radium (not Radon) on the underside of the cartridge? Back then there were some novel uses for radioactive materials, perhaps the dangers were not fully appreciated back then. Still, I can't think of anything more irresponsible these days.

From Audiotools: Grado
Traditionally the most gimmickry amongst all cart manufacturers, this is the company that used to put Radon on their pickups to ionise the record ! (And hope that the sound of the Geiger counter does not interfere with your musical enjoyment). Currently makes a well regarded range mid to high end pickups, and not as well regarded range of budget models. Caveat : Their range is more microphonic than carts from most other makers, so if you have a vintage deck, direct drive deck or one with an AC motor located near the platter arrange for a demo in a similar deck before buying, they tend to pick up lots of hum (this is microphony, not a grounding issue as with some of their earlier designs). Their low/mid range of MI pickups is called Prestige and has models called Black, Green is basically the same cart as the Black but is hand selected from the product line, the Blue has an improved cantilever assembly and the Red is a hand selected version of it, at the top of the Prestige range you will find the Silver and Gold.

Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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What about the Grado Platinum? Is it the concensus that that one is poor as well? I recently bought one off CL and was looking forward to trying it out when it arrives on my new (to me) VPI 16.5. The resonance calculation with the Grado Signature Lab tonearm that came with the TT led me to believe it should be a good match. After reading in this thread how Grado is supposedly overrated and gimmicky, though, I now have a little apprehension. Should I be worried about being disappointed? I hope I didn't waste my $.
 
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