grado gold vs blue where does the difference lie

[goraman]

I think Hakaplan knows his shit here. And I emailed Jhon Grado to get the straight scoop here.I will let you all know when and if he e mails me back ,what he says.I myself have used the red and gold and currently use a gold and aside from a little better bass in the gold can't hear a big differance ,both are great.

 

[Mr. Lin]

I'm pretty sure about the Gold coming from 5% of the Silvers, since I just bought my Silver about a month ago. By the way, mine sounds great too. I do have some issues with it - it's not a perfect cartridge by any means, but it has a very enjoyable sound and I do not regret buying it.

 

[hakaplan]

I'm pretty sure about the Gold coming from 5% of the Silvers, since I just bought my Silver about a month ago. By the way, mine sounds great too. I do have some issues with it - it's not a perfect cartridge by any means, but it has a very enjoyable sound and I do not regret buying it.

Yes, I reread it and the Red/Blue description and that makes sense. Okay, so maybe the blue/red is not constructed from exactly the same materials as the silver/gold, but that still reinforces the argument that all the bodies are not the same.

What I can't understand is that if the Silver and/or Gold stylus is different or better, why isn't that mentioned on the site? After all, if you expect the customer to pay more, wouldn't you extol all the virtues of the product? :scratch2: The description for the stylus, "Grado's specially designed elliptical diamond mounted on a brass bushing" not only does not differentiate between Gold and Silver, but is identical for the Red and Blue.

I don't think they know the difference between their own cartridges.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Yes, I reread it and the Red/Blue description and that makes sense. Okay, so maybe the blue/red is not constructed from exactly the same materials as the silver/gold, but that still reinforces the argument that all the bodies are not the same.

What I can't understand is that if the Silver and/or Gold stylus is different or better, why isn't that mentioned on the site? After all, if you expect the customer to pay more, wouldn't you extol all the virtues of the product? :scratch2: The description for the stylus, "Grado's specially designed elliptical diamond mounted on a brass bushing" not only does not differentiate between Gold and Silver, but is identical for the Red and Blue.

I don't think they know the difference between their own cartridges.

Maybe they don't Howard! I remember looking at Grados site before buying my Silver and being disappointed with the lack of information. About the stylus, I don't think they are different at all between Silver and Gold, just supposedly the Gold ones are Silvers that meet some unspecified standards, which is why I passed on spending an extra $30 for the Gold. And like I said, I really like my Silver, regardless of the great Grado controversy.

 

[goraman]

The red,and gold are hand selected after testing.sometimes its all about the Dynamics for example from the SR 60 head phones to the high end wood jobs they make all range from 20HZ to 20 KHZ.should all sound the same right?WRONG!! the sr 80's sound more open than the sr 60's and attack and decay is clearly better as you go up the price ladder.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Sure I believe that with no problem, I'm just saying I don't know if I buy the difference between green and red, or silver and gold, you know? I would not be surprised at all if I'm wrong, I'm just skeptical.

 

[Marek]

from the grado website:

"The Black and Green models use a three piece OTL cantilever
technology, standard oxygen free wire in the coils
and Grado's specially designed elliptical
diamond mounted in a brass bushing. The
Green model is selected from the Black
production run and meet higher test specifications.
Approximately 15% of the production
run will meet these standards and become
Green models.

The Blue and Red models use a four piece OTL cantilever technology,
standard oxygen free wire in the coils and Grado's specially designed
elliptical diamond mounted on a brass bushing. The Red model
is selected from the Blue production run and meet higher test
specifications. Approximately 10% of the production run will meet
these standards and become Red models.

The Silver and Gold models use a four piece OTL cantilever
technology, ultra-high purity long crystal (UHPLC) oxygen free
copper wire in the coils and Grado's specially designed elliptical
diamond mounted on a brass bushing. The Gold model is selected
from the Silver production run and meet higher test specifications.
Approximately 5% of the production run meet these standards and
become Gold models."

ps I'm very happy with my grado:thmbsp:

 

[Fishstink]

By the above post. The only difference from red/blue vs silver/gold is the copper coils used. Stylus is the same. So if you want to throw away $50.00, go right ahead. However your ears or your vinyl can't tell the difference. What do you think, Grado's gonna tell you the truth and lose money? I got my info from a well respected cartridge dealer, (sells grado too), when I needed a stylus for my gold. They said, "get the blue" and if it doesn't sound as good as a gold, money back. Well, it sounded every bit as good as the gold and I'm listening to it now and I've got $50.00 more to buy vinyl.

 

[MitsuMan]

All I can tell you is that there is no comparison in the Grado red that I own vs. the gold. The gold reveals things in the vinyl that the red can't. The realism in the soundstage is easily heard over the soundstage of the red. I've listened to them recently, on the same deck, on different decks. There is a huge difference. :yes:

 

[goraman]

Well Jhon grado still hasen't emailed me back with his answer but in my opinion it's only fair to give him at least 3 working days to clear this up,The jury is still out till either he tells me differant or a reasonable amount of time passes and he dosen't respond.His company has been around for a long time and I have enjoyed all his products and as a fellow audio nut I really hope he will answer this,and put it to rest once and for all.

 

[Marek]

No, the three familys have three different stylus's with the better ones going to the higher in each family.

http://www.gradolabs.com/frameset_cart/stylus_hist.htm

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=GRA

http://www.needledoctor.com/Brand-Stores/Grado-Stylus?sort1desc=F&sort1=Item_NAME&range=

By the above post. The only difference from red/blue vs silver/gold is the copper coils used. Stylus is the same. So if you want to throw away $50.00, go right ahead. However your ears or your vinyl can't tell the difference. What do you think, Grado's gonna tell you the truth and lose money? I got my info from a well respected cartridge dealer, (sells grado too), when I needed a stylus for my gold. They said, "get the blue" and if it doesn't sound as good as a gold, money back. Well, it sounded every bit as good as the gold and I'm listening to it now and I've got $50.00 more to buy vinyl.

 

[hakaplan]

That proves nothing except that Grado charges different prices for them and implies that a certain stylus must go with a certain cartridge. Clearly users like Fishstink have disproved this. Show me any documentation that specifically describes the differences. Carefully read the description of the stylus (not the cartridges) on Grado's own website. They use the identical wording for the red, blue, silver and gold.

 

[Fishstink]

Look, Just buy a blue stylus for your gold or silver cartridge when you need one and save money without losing not one thing in sonics. Neither your ears or your vinyl will be able to tell a difference.

 

[Marek]

It proves one other thing, that they have different part numbers.

The fact that they are the same basic shape does not mean they are the same needles.

It does not imply that they are not modular because they are, you can put different needles on new or old bodies or totl or botl bodies.

"Clearly users like Fishstink have disproved this." other users have heard a difference so that proves one persons subjective experience, nothing more.

That proves nothing except that Grado charges different prices for them and implies that a certain stylus must go with a certain cartridge. Clearly users like Fishstink have disproved this. Show me any documentation that specifically describes the differences. Carefully read the description of the stylus (not the cartridges) on Grado's own website. They use the identical wording for the red, blue, silver and gold.

 

[hakaplan]

Different part numbers doesn't prove anything. You can take two identical styli, put gold dots and one part number on one and blue dots and another part number on the other and sell them as two different items, which Grado very well may do.

other users have heard a difference so that proves one persons subjective experience, nothing more.

Really? Give me the quote from a post in which an AK member tried different Grado styli in the same cartridge and heard a difference.

 

[goraman]

OK,I talked to THE MAN JHON GRADO HIMSELF TODAY.I talked to him for 15 min.He said "the styless for each cartrage has some differances". When I asked him to explain them to me, to clear this up he said rather than go into a long explination I'll fax you something from my sight ,All the info is there right out in the open."it's public" I asked him to please underline or circle the part that explained the differances in the styleses,He said he would .I got his fax nothing was underlined or circled and it was the opening page discribing the Presteage seris cartridges we have all seen .He said if I needed further help to call him back so I did and got his answering machein.I am not going to take this further if a blue styles in a gold cartridge makes you happy and you save a few bucks that can't be wrong. I can't belive I'm about to say this but ,"IM DOWN WITH FISH STINK!"

 

[Normo]

I started this whole thread with an innocent question and I respect the experience of members of this group. I gotta say I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be any difference between blue and gold. It just would seem to be a "scam" if that's the case. Somehow I hope Mr. Grado does get back to "Goraman" and clears things up. Norm

 

[Marek]

So what you're saying is there's an elaborate conspiracy with different models, part numbers, names and prices which has been going on for decades? When all someone would have to do is switch stylus's to find out? And no reviewer or magazine has discovered this in 30+ years, but you have?

And the proof you have is someone comparing a worn out gold to a new blue stylus listened to at different times?

The post I referred to was this

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1402614&postcount=29

Grado is a small family owned company in there second generation. During the time they have been around many companies have went into hard times and changed ownership. When this happens many times the owners of older product get left out in the cold. Shure Brothers, Denon, Thorens and Dual all have changed hands.

Grado has went out of there way to take care of there customers, sometimes from decades passed and has consistantly garnered excellent reviews in the perfectionist press.

To claim this fine small company is misrepresenting there products on subjective non scientific evidence on a forum of 20,000 people is'nt just unscientific it's irresponsible. Grado sells about $500,000 worth of cartriges per year; if 500 people listen to you Grado could loose approx %10 of there cartrige sales. For a small company that's a big hit, and they have supported the hifi community for decades, almost going under a few years ago. Grado has always had affordable products in there lineup, not what you'd expect from a greedy dishonest company. But it is what you'd expect from a company interested in long term relationships.

I don't doubt that people have heard what they say the've heard. In a-b comparisons I have heard only small differences when comparing products myself. It's another matter to claim Grado "take two identical styli... and sell them as two different items...".

This to me is making a leap in logic which has not been proven, and could hurt a company that's supported the vintage community.

Different part numbers doesn't prove anything. You can take two identical styli, put gold dots and one part number on one and blue dots and another part number on the other and sell them as two different items, which Grado very well may do.


Really? Give me the quote from a post in which an AK member tried different Grado styli in the same cartridge and heard a difference.

 

[goraman]

After reciveing his fax I feel this isen't the first time he's been asked this qwestion,I feel he was evading it.The phone number is (718)435-5340 I hope you have better luck.For the record I use a Grado Gold and keep a spaire Gold styles on hand ,just in case.I do think there is a differance but untill today I had no doughts,but to be honest i'm not so sure now.just mabey the only differance is the color paint used on the dots,I will probably never know the real truth.

 

[Mr. Lin]

I still find it hard to believe there's not a pretty significant difference between the Gold and Blue styli. However, I find it to be a royal pain in the neck when customer service is so lackluster. Marek, I agree that Grado has a lot at stake with their reputation - so why didn't John Grado put a little effort into explaining the differences between the cartridges? There's no excuse for that sort of lazy nonsense, and I feel I can judge him in this area because I'm a sales manager, and I know descent customer service when I see it. Saying you'll fax something with key points underlined or highlighted and then not doing it is pretty weak.