GREAT mid-`60s GM cars on "My Classic Car"

Discussion in 'Wheels, Wings, Mud, and Water' started by MaxxVolume, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. MaxxVolume

    MaxxVolume AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,768
    Watched an episode this am (didn`t catch the original air date), Dennis Gage was riding around with a guy who owned two beautiful classics, a `66 Olds Toronado with less than 1200 miles since new (!!!). Yeah, you heard right, eleven-hundred and change ! Gage said it looked, felt, and drove like it just rolled out of a showroom.
    Same owner also had a `67 Buick Riviera, also a cherry, low-miles beauty....the guy said he and his father saw this particular Riv for sale at Carlisle, Pa. for several years in a row, and finally decided to purchase it. No prices were mentioned, so I`m sure they fetched top dollar....
     
    HiFi in WYO and noogies like this.

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. slow_jazz

    slow_jazz Lunatic Member

    Messages:
    13,677
    Location:
    SE Michigan, Downriver....
    Awesome cars.
     
  3. HiFi in WYO

    HiFi in WYO The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.

    Messages:
    2,492
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Doubtful. Toronados don't go for squat. There's a few that do, but even the '66s don't seem to bring Chevelle or Mustang prices. $5-12,000 is about the range. Great unique cars though - I have a '69.
     
  4. Archguy

    Archguy Official Roiurama Factory Rep Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,835
    Location:
    Richmond VA
    Why on earth is that, do you think? One of the most distinctive cars of the era, quite beautiful to my eye, and notably engineered.

    [​IMG]

    Wonder if they're a sleeper... The 63-65 Riviera (also very distinctive) seems to have increased in value lately.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    This '65 brought 121K at auction in Scottsdale in 2016 ... and boy is it beautiful... [​IMG]
     
    62caddy likes this.
  5. 62caddy

    62caddy Trust but verify Subscriber

    Messages:
    9,134
    Location:
    NEPA
    That must have been some time ago. 1966 Toronado values have increased greatly over the last 10 years or so. Same for 1967 Eldorado became FWD that year having debuted on the Toronado the preceding year.

    Highest sale price of a '66 Toronado of which I'm aware was in the $40,000 range and it was a restoration, not a 1,200 mile original which should be worth considerably more.

    Recently a close friend purchased a pristine 1970 Eldorado (last year of the 67-70 generation) that was a one-owner car with under 12,000 miles - black on black with rare white bucket seating - for $33,000 - and there were three other parties in line if he didn't buy it.
     
  6. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier

    Messages:
    4,612
    Location:
    MI, US
    That one was a rare (and pristine!) Gran Sport, which had the dual-4bbl-carb Super Wildcat engine in it. (If I'm not mistaken, the earlier GS options packages on Buicks in '65 and '66 were sometimes just the parts shipped with the vehicle in the trunk, where the dealer would install them.) Without the GS package obviously it is less. I prefer the '65 over the '63 or '64 due to the hidden "clamshell" vertical headlights. The '63 and '64 for whatever other reasons are out there, tend to go for less than the '65s, so they can still be found somewhat affordably. Not a big fan of black, but this is one car I would consider finding in black-on-black. ;) In '63 they came with the Wildcat 445 nailhead engine (401 ci), but later added the Wildcat 465 (425 ci). The Super Wildcat engine was the larger engine with the dual carbs.

    That was IMHO one of Bill Mitchell's slickest designs. I like how the cars got more trim in the 60s, losing that bloated/bulbuous "old car" look that many had (especially back from the 50s).

    I think those Toronados weighed at least 5,000 pounds if not more! I know the last big Eldorados in the mid 70s were pushing nearly 6,000, and had huge 500 ci engines to push them down the road. :D (My uncle had a white '76 Eldo--that thing was a creampuff!)
     
    KentTeffeteller and MaxxVolume like this.

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  7. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,874
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    Front wheel drive? That may hold them back? Not sure.
     
  8. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier

    Messages:
    4,612
    Location:
    MI, US
    And that classic Riviera just drives home the point of how colossally screwed up Buick became over the years. Dropping their well-known model names might have been a little bit wise (LeSabre, Electra, etc.) just due to the "old man" stigma, but all they have now are various European sounding names that for me, evoke absolutely nothing. They are still old man's cars, but with new names attached. A model can easily be "reborn" with the right stylists and marketing behind it. Electra 225 was always an elegant sounding name. Wildcat or Invicta are still the sportiest names they've ever had for full-sized "banker's hot rods." Riviera...just look at that thing! There isn't one single car in Buick's lineup that can even touch the style, class or that mix of sportiness and elegance today. Century was another long-time proven model name for Buick, going back at least to the 50s if not earlier. The Special, likewise. As many seem to like "retro" things these days, wouldn't it be a no-brainer to dump their entire line as it stands, and bring out something that is at least a little distinctive?
     
    KentTeffeteller and MaxxVolume like this.
  9. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,874
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    Park Avenue too, right?
     
  10. Archguy

    Archguy Official Roiurama Factory Rep Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,835
    Location:
    Richmond VA
    Park Avenue, ugh. Wildcat, I didn't even know there was a 2-4bbl option. IIRC my grandmother's '65 said Wildcat 455 on the air cleaner cover...I assume it was a single 4-bbl.

    Yes it was a spectacular car and even if no sentimental reasons were involved I'd still prefer the '65 as it was a much cleaner design than the previous two years. Joining a VERY short list of cars whose revisions actually improved upon the original. I can think of two Jaguars which qualify--the Series III XJ and the Mk2 sedan. YMMV of course (actually no one disagrees about the Mk2 that I'm aware of).
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
    lokerola likes this.
  11. HiFi in WYO

    HiFi in WYO The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.

    Messages:
    2,492
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Not really increasing that much. As I said, there are some (few) examples of these cars fetching high prices. Mostly, they fetch high asking prices, not selling price.

    I've owned mine for nearly seven years, so I've been tuned in to the market to some extent. Just look at ebay. Some of those have been relisted several times. There's a '66 for $12K asking - it's been listed for awhile. Recently, a pretty pristine '69 was listed at one of the big auction companies, Barrett-Jackson I think? - Anyhow, it no-saled at somewhere around $12K.

    I don't know about the Riviera though, but I haven't seen sky-high prices for those either when I've looked.

    Why? They're not the holy grail cars such as the Cudas, Mustangs, Chevelles, Chargers, etc. They're also not easy to restore or customize. You have to remember, the Toro was the ONLY FWD car out there at least American - at the time. So you aren't souping up the tranny (or swapping it) - though it is in essence just a Turbo 400 3-speed. You can barely buy wheels for it - unless you have some custom made. The offset from the FWD is ridiculous.

    Also, there are very few reproduced parts. You aren't buying a fender out of the JC Whitney catalog. You also aren't buying anything from GM Obsolete. You either have it or you scrounge for years - trust me, I know.

    Some other issues are the oil pan - has to be one for a Toro. There's a little ole' driveshaft that goes underneath the pan creating a curved hump. Can't just slap a big old Moroso pan under there. The intake manifold is more flattened. You're also not bolting on a huge double-pumper Holley without cutting a hole in the hood. There's not much room between the air cleaner and hood. And the 455 block is pretty specific to the Toro. In short, they're not a very easy car to restore, let alone hot-rod.

    They're also considered an old guys car, not a hot rod. They're a personal luxury coupe - and those just don't bring the same money. Tell me, when have you seen a $50,000 Monte Carlo, Grand Prix or other car like that? Not often. Same deal here.

    Having said that, mine is a 455 4 barrel - from factory 385 HP with nearly 400 lb ft of torque to the front wheels. Pretty good numbers, though you're right, it's a 5,000+ lb car.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  12. HiFi in WYO

    HiFi in WYO The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.

    Messages:
    2,492
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Having said all that, they're still cool as hell. Mine's about halfway done. Paint, interior still need finished. I have been mechanically restoring it first. I didn't find it, it found me and I fell for the ole' girl. It's been quite a ride for the past several years - frustration, anger, bloody knuckles. But in the end, it'll be my car, that I rebuilt and that's pretty cool. It'll also be the only one in town - and that's even cooler!


    Toro Driver Sidemarkers SMALL.jpg Toro Grill Driver SMALL.jpg
    Toro rear sidemarker SMALL.jpg

    Oh yeah, and it comes with Air, PW, PS, Tilt/tele wheel, power seat, PB and cornering lights. What else came that way base in '69? Maybe a Caddy or Lincoln. Certainly not a Mustang!!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  13. lokerola

    lokerola AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    967
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Oh yea! I had a 65 Buick Wildcat 2-door in college. Something like 325hp and 425lbs. It would scoot and it made wonderful sounds. Of course it made something like 8mpg in the city and 8.1mpg on the highway. And it was pretty beat. But there was some magic in that old car that I've rarely found in newer cars.

    EDIT - One of the best things about it was that it had no B pillar. You could roll all the windows down in the summer time and it was just this big, open, airy space to take in the summer sights and sounds.
     
    turnitdown likes this.
  14. 2011etec

    2011etec Super Member

    A little newer but my fav buick.[​IMG]
     
    Archguy, 62caddy, lokerola and 2 others like this.
  15. 62caddy

    62caddy Trust but verify Subscriber

    Messages:
    9,134
    Location:
    NEPA
    A bit earlier...and my [user]namesake...

    1962-1.jpg 1962-2.jpg 1962-3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
    Archguy, Wildcat and I LIKE MUSIC like this.
  16. HiFi in WYO

    HiFi in WYO The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.

    Messages:
    2,492
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Boat Tails are pretty cool. Pretty freakin' huge too. Big advantage to these over the Toro is - they're RWD. Much easier to play with. But jeezuz, try and replace that rear window!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  17. HiFi in WYO

    HiFi in WYO The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.

    Messages:
    2,492
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Pics aren't coming through there 62
     
  18. lokerola

    lokerola AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    967
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Nice!
     
  19. 62caddy

    62caddy Trust but verify Subscriber

    Messages:
    9,134
    Location:
    NEPA
    Now?
     
  20. HiFi in WYO

    HiFi in WYO The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.

    Messages:
    2,492
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Oh yeah. Now for sure!
     

Share This Page