GrooveWasher record cleaner kickstarter

DaverJ

DaverJ

Active Member
Anyone interested in this?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/776377456/groovewasher-the-ultimate-record-cleaning-system

Looks like they are reprising the old Discwasher D4 system from the 1970s.

My take: Overpriced (EDIT - apologies... came off unnecessarily harsh, just a gut-reaction), and not going to replace a vac (wand) system and/or wood glue, but might give a nice, static-free light cleaning for vinyl already in decent shape to begin with -- for those times I don't want to pull out the shop vac or wait for the wood glue to dry.

Plus, good audioKarma for helping the little guy.
 
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Audiovox and RCA already re-make these so don't know how they can compete...but good luck to them as their quality seem a little better. Anyways, they were never a great way to clean records, only to wipe off already clean ones.
 
Dave and Vince,

Thanks for the invite to participate in the discussion!

Since this is a brand new product (guided by the old system of the 1970s I knew so well) we only have a few beta testers cleaning records with it at this point. Their opinions will be valuable since they have actual experience using it.

We will continually improve this product using feedback from audiophiles like you!

The GrooveWasher harkens back to the 70s in style, and is faithful to the features and benefits of the old system. But we have made important enhancements. The "copy" products aren't even close.

There are no "on turntable" record cleaners that are as effective as the vintage system, or now, the GrooveWasher. I've been testing other cleaners for years and there is nothing as effective, convenient and affordable at the GrooveWasher. Overpriced? Will vinyl lovers prefer an elegant looking system that actually works for $49 or a crappy looking system that has distilled water or high alcohol fluid, and doesn't work, for $25?

My opinion is that GrooveWasher is more convenient than other methods and is effective at deep cleaning. I've been testing dozens of our various formulations for two years. The final version of G2 fluid and our fabric brush does remove micro dust just before playing. It also cleans vintage LPs with accumulations of grime, oils and mildew. It will be interesting to get user reviews after these early systems are delivered to customers next month and next year.

The dollar cost and time cost per cleaned LP is far less with GrooveWasher than many other methods. Before assuming its effectiveness, or similarity to other products, I suggest you try it!

I haven't been bold enough to risk a valued LP using wood glue although I've seen Youtube videos that demo this method. Wood glue is highly viscous. Have your results demonstrated that wood glue penetrates to the bottom of the groove before drying? Does it leave any layering in the groove. What's the cost per cleaned LP? Have you ever harmed a record with this method?

Yes, we are small guys and can't hope to compete. We will fabricate the GrooveWasher in Kansas City, USA in small quanities. And let the big corporate guys churn out cleaners made elsewhere that don't work.

Thanks again for the good AudioKarma and thanks for your good thoughts!
 
Personally, I'd buy one. And I have a nice RCM as well as an original DiscWasher.

I foresee success here as most folks want simple. Us AKers that spend a great deal of effort cleaning records are certainly in the minority of record purchasing consumers ...
 
Hi Steven, thanks for contributing and good luck with this venture. Back in the day when I used the classic Discwasher, the biggest problem was getting rid of the debris that accumulated on the brush from cleaning records. Are there plans to include a pad cleaner? I know dust used to come off by wiping in the opposite direction, but this was never efficient enough to keep from grinding some debris back onto the next record, nor would it remove oils and mildew. In other words: how does the removed oil get off the pad with your system? In the old system, the fluid solubilized it, then it would accumulate in the pad.

Also, does your fluid contain an antistat?

Regarding the glue: it is not a method I recommend as the ingredients in glue formulations are not compatible with long term record preservation. It works great, it's just harsh. I've experimented with more gentle mask formulations and could never get past the high alcohol content required for the mask to set properly.

BTW, I don't think your pricing if off at all. I've bought simple brushes for $49. And you are right about your competitors...they use the wrong pad material, just cheap velvet.
 
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Welcome to the forum @Steven Chase !

I edited the OP with an apology, I didn't mean the "overpriced" remark to sound as harsh as it came across. I think what I meant to say is based on previous experience (good and bad) with other brushes and liquids, the $60 retail (currently $40 on KS) GrooveWasher system with the single pad and 2 oz. of fluid is on the expensive side.

BUT if it works as well as claimed, it's a good value, especially for the convenience. I'm looking forward to sharing my thoughts when it ships!
 
Guys--Thanks for your encouragement! This is a heartfelt project for all of us. I will try not to be a pest on the forum. I've been an audiophile for many years.

Vince--Your points are well taken. I've searched for a long time for a fabric similar to the 1972 to 75 D2 and D3 fabrics. The one with the soft slanted fibers in rows. Fairly easy to clean but still not perfect. If a D2, D3 or D4 pad needed to be replaced you had to send the entire handle back to the factory in Columbia, MO. That's why I decided to shape the GrooveWasher handle to allow for interchangeable pads. When one becomes dirty beyond cleaning, just go on our website and buy another (thank you). We will keep the replacement pad prices low. The fabric I like best right now is split fiber microfiber, blend of polyamide and nylon. It is very effective. You can wash the fabric with distilled water and a spray of G2. But this is not perfect. Once the microfiber grabs dirt, mildew and oils it hangs on! We will keep searching for fabrics. Appreciate your suggestions.
The anti-stat in the fluid is the deionized water carrier (the emulsifier helps a bit as well). Short term anti stat. After cleaning I like to let the record air dry instead of drying completely with the brush. Helps a bit. One of our partners is planning to introduce an anti stat product. And there's always the good old Zerostat. PVC vinyl is really good at generating static charges. Best we can hope for is limiting the charge for 20 minutes while we enjoy the side!
 
Needlestein--You point is very well taken. One of our team members wants to include a label protector for those who want to use the spray mist applicator and not get overspray on the label. If you are careful you won't get much on the turntable base. The fluid has a very low percentage of additives and all but one evaporates completely (it has a very slight lubricative effect) so the residue left on the record, or your turntable, is extremely low. In fact you could use the G2 solution to clean dust off your turntable and it wouldn't hurt.
That said, we will include a turret spout top for those who want to apply the fluid to the record or on the brush. A drawback of putting the fluid on the brush is that the fabric is so absorbent not much fluid reaches the records surface. That's why I chose the spray. Off the turntable, the spray works great, especially for heavily soiled records. Looking forward to your feedback once you try it! Steve
 
Steven Chase said:
Guys--Thanks for your encouragement! This is a heartfelt project for all of us. I will try not to be a pest on the forum. I've been an audiophile for many years.

Vince--Your points are well taken. I've searched for a long time for a fabric similar to the 1972 to 75 D2 and D3 fabrics. The one with the soft slanted fibers in rows. Fairly easy to clean but still not perfect. If a D2, D3 or D4 pad needed to be replaced you had to send the entire handle back to the factory in Columbia, MO. That's why I decided to shape the GrooveWasher handle to allow for interchangeable pads. When one becomes dirty beyond cleaning, just go on our website and buy another (thank you). We will keep the replacement pad prices low. The fabric I like best right now is split fiber microfiber, blend of polyamide and nylon. It is very effective. You can wash the fabric with distilled water and a spray of G2. But this is not perfect. Once the microfiber grabs dirt, mildew and oils it hangs on! We will keep searching for fabrics. Appreciate your suggestions.
The anti-stat in the fluid is the deionized water carrier (the emulsifier helps a bit as well). Short term anti stat. After cleaning I like to let the record air dry instead of drying completely with the brush. Helps a bit. One of our partners is planning to introduce an anti stat product. And there's always the good old Zerostat. PVC vinyl is really good at generating static charges. Best we can hope for is limiting the charge for 20 minutes while we enjoy the side!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Your replaceable pad is very clever and quite an improvement over the classic. I would pick up a few, keeping them separate for separate solutions or tasks. As a former Biochemist, I make my own cleaning solutions (outlined here https://sites.google.com/site/vincesaudiofiles/, though I've changed things a bit since this was posted), and add a small amount of cationic detergent that acts as both a surfactant and antistat. Not everyone wants to go as far as a vacuum-based machine, so I think your product will be a real hit.
 
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This is very interesting. I am still a daily user of my old D3 brush. One of the things I like about it is the ability to limit the amount of fluid on the record by applying it to the brush, and how easy it is to clean the brush after. In this way I can tailor my cleaning for the record whether dusting a basically clean record before play or checking a new acquisition that needs a bit more help. I hope you have good luck in your ongoing search of fabrics. Since this seems to be an attempt to (finally) properly replace the very good Discwasher system I would be very interested to hear the beta test results from those that have previously been accustomed to the older system. And I very much wish you success in your kickstarter campaign.
 
It looks interesting. I like the removeable brush and the applicator spout idea, though one could limit overspray by spraying the record while holding it in one hand (thumb at edge and fingers under label as I do) and then put it on the platter.

So the fabric is not directional like the D3?

I have multiple cleaning brushes but would still be interested in signing up on KS. However the "Only United States" shipping kills it for me.
 
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Vince1 said:
Thanks for the reply. Your replaceable pad is very clever and quite an improvement over the classic. I would pick up a few, keeping them separate for separate solutions or tasks. As a former Biochemist, I make my own cleaning solutions (outlined here https://sites.google.com/site/vincesaudiofiles/, though I've changed things a bit since this was posted), and add a small amount of cationic detergent that acts as both a surfactant and antistat. Not everyone wants to go as far as a vacuum-based machine, so I think your product will be a real hit.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that write-up. I plan to try your mixture. I have cleaned a few records with 90% alcohol and distilled water mixture with a drop of Dawn dish soap with mixed results. (A few bad records sounded near new, and a few mediocre records still had "pops"). I use a soft bristle tooth brush held at a slight angle while spinning the tt. Would a soft paint pad be as effective/potentially less harmful? After "brushing" the entire record forward and backward, I rinse with distilled water and employ the vacuum method. Thanks for your, or any other's input!
 
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The Discwasher D4 system of the 70's were good for their time ... once I started using Record Cleaning Machines (RCM) in 2000 ... never looked back.

One of the record store owners (retirement age) I visit ... still uses this brush to clean his records ... he just shook his head when he found out I was using RCM's ... he never tried one.

The biggest problem I remember w/ the old brushes were occasionally slipping out of my hand and marring the vinyl with a light gauge mark. Must have been a common problem because to this day ... I see a lot of Discwasher marks on used vinyl from the 70's.

Usually these mar marks never effect vinyl playback ... they just look bad & unsightly. I've purchased many nice playing copies of used albums w/ these marks at reduced prices.

Personally ... I would not use the brush on a a spinning TT ... I'd be more inclined to use the brush on a Lazy Susan (like the kind Ikea sells) w/ old TT mat or shelf liner (preventing vinyl slippage) on top. Brush could be held in place (protecting against slipping out of hand) and the LZ could be manually turned.
 
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Vince1 said:
Thanks for the reply. Your replaceable pad is very clever and quite an improvement over the classic. I would pick up a few, keeping them separate for separate solutions or tasks. As a former Biochemist, I make my own cleaning solutions (outlined here https://sites.google.com/site/vincesaudiofiles/, though I've changed things a bit since this was posted), and add a small amount of cationic detergent that acts as both a surfactant and antistat. Not everyone wants to go as far as a vacuum-based machine, so I think your product will be a real hit.
Click to expand...
Vince--I very much appreciated your article. Ben is a fan of Quats (and multitaskers in general) so we will explore that direction. If you wish to continue the tech discussion drop me a line at schase@astra-kc.com Thanks again!
 
Steven Chase said:
Vince--I very much appreciated your article. Ben is a fan of Quats (and multitaskers in general) so we will explore that direction. If you wish to continue the tech discussion drop me a line at schase@astra-kc.com Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Cool. I started another "you're doing it wrong" type thread on some comments I made to a group while discussing what they use to clean records. Just my opinions, but based on experience and experimentation. Fun stuff this record cleaning is.
 
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