Guilty: Exercise Your Objectivity

Outside of a North Korean concentration camp I fail to see the need for self-criticism.
Very revealing comment. Speaker criticism, not self. The ego at work - on all of us (not picking on you, Bodyblue); we all tend to feel that way to some extent. That's why the exercise can be difficult.

But the mental image of a North Korean Audio Re-Education Camp haunts me. Wonder how the Alumni decal on my rear window would look?
 
People think they’re room dividers

One day one of our cats will use one as a scratching post

Pretty much requires a subwoofer (needs to be a good one to boot)

Physically fragile tweeters

So many staples

Have to be too far out from the wall

Take gobs of power

Talking about my Magnepan 2.5r's

Haha I forgot about the staples! I used to be a magnepan guy... getting the socks on and off was definitely tedious! should add another point to my previous post in this thread though

- doesn't play strings like a magnepan speaker

Magnepan have their weakness as you summarized but man, cello, violin,
Upright bass, etc sound so good on a magneplanar.
 
By any standard of excellence, every piece of audio equipment I own deserves -- at best -- a small, dull-finished, slightly-rusty trophy for outstandingly marginal adequacy. Collectively, my audio systems are a crowning monument to middle-of-the-road forgettable mid-fi, a shining manifesto of the view that good enough is good enough. My speakers, a mix of vintage Technics and modern Tannoy, are a testament to that view and fit perfectly -- and by that, I mean imperfectly -- within it.
 
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By any standard of excellence, every piece of audio equipment I own deserves -- at best -- a small, dull-finished, slightly-rusty trophy for outstandingly marginal adequacy. Collectively, my audio systems a crowning monument to middle-of-the-road forgettable mid-fi, a shining manifesto of the view that good enough is good enough. My speakers, a mix of vintage Technics and modern Tannoy, are a testament to that view and fit perfectly -- and by that, I mean imperfectly -- within it.

Marginally adequate is a high card, trumping marginally inadequate every time. I'm proud for ya.
 
I've never experienced that, but then again I don't know of the content you used. Would you care to describe the "monster" system?

The "content" of the system evolved through a series of Infinity speakers (RS IIb's, RS Ib's, Kappa 9's), Apogee Diva's and Maggie 3.6R's--some of which I still have, Front end and amplification--Audio Research, Krell, Carver tube monoblocks, Aragon. "Content" in terms of music is mainly 60's, 70's and 80's rock, alt, folk, punk and metal--not notoriously well engineered/recorded--especially a lot of the live recordings--so the old "garbage in = garbage out" comes into play--only the "garbage" or "artifacts:" in the original recording/mastering just becomes so much more noticeable as to become "annoying" to the point of not wanting to listen to it anymore.

And yes, when I look for new speakers, I'm now looking at minimum 12 inch woofers, and yes, at least for me, there will be a return to the big speakers, at least on one of the systems. The vintage system will probably not go larger than the Yamaha NS-1000 when I find a pair.

This is a fallacy that is currently being discussed in another thread regarding speaker driver size, materials and performance. I have lots of JBL's that have 12" woofers that could only dream about getting anywhere near 30-35Hz--they just don't dig that deep. OTOH, I have a more modern (still 20+ years old) pair of JBL's that have an 8" woofer and can easily maintain performance down to 40Hz and have more than double (almost triple) the power handling of my L100's from 1977. Sometimes there IS a "replacement for displacement"--a brand new Honda Civic with a tiny 4-banger will eat an early to mid 70's big block Vette for lunch--and get 30 mpg doing it--think about it--technology has changed a lot of things.
 
By any standard of excellence, every piece of audio equipment I own deserves -- at best -- a small, dull-finished, slightly-rusty trophy for outstandingly marginal adequacy. Collectively, my audio systems a crowning monument to middle-of-the-road forgettable mid-fi, a shining manifesto of the view that good enough is good enough. My speakers, a mix of vintage Technics and modern Tannoy, are a testament to that view and fit perfectly -- and by that, I mean imperfectly -- within it.

Drag out another award, Musichal! Dave's post has to rank as one of the best so far. I love it! :beerchug:

GeeDeeEmm
 
This is a fallacy that is currently being discussed in another thread regarding speaker driver size, materials and performance. I have lots of JBL's that have 12" woofers that could only dream about getting anywhere near 30-35Hz--they just don't dig that deep. OTOH, I have a more modern (still 20+ years old) pair of JBL's that have an 8" woofer and can easily maintain performance down to 40Hz and have more than double (almost triple) the power handling of my L100's from 1977.

Well, the bigger is better moto is a generalization, but hardly a fallacy. While modern technology - accurately tuned/engineered enclosures; woofers with extended Xmax; powerful motors; advanced adhesives; precise manufacturing standards, etc. - has, indeed, significantly altered the landscape, I don't think it can be denied that, with all things being equal, a larger woofer of equally advanced design in equally advanced enclosures can simply dig deeper than woofers of smaller size. But your point is well taken.

Your automotive comparison is an excellent illustration. But, were the 1970s Corvette a recipient of the same design advances as the modern Toyota, the story would be quite different, wouldn't it? A more accurate comparison would be between a Toyota of 1975 vs a Corvette of the same year. Or a 2017 Toyota vs. a Corvette of today. The big cubes of today will still "smoke" the small cubes of today. Every time. All things being equal.

GeeDeeEmm
 
The big cubes of today will still "smoke" the small cubes of today. Every time. All things being equal.

I appreciate that you realize where I am coming from--both with speakers and automotive aspects. Things have changed A LOT in the last 40 or so years. My uncle just bought a new (2017) Honda CRV that has more hp and weighs 1000 lbs less than my '77 Trans Am T/A 6.6--however, I am fortunate enough to have a new Challenger HellCat with the 700+hp supercharged 6.2L hemi and still weighing in at 2 tons--so I know what you mean.
 
I appreciate that you realize where I am coming from--both with speakers and automotive aspects. Things have changed A LOT in the last 40 or so years. My uncle just bought a new (2017) Honda CRV that has more hp and weighs 1000 lbs less than my '77 Trans Am T/A 6.6--however, I am fortunate enough to have a new Challenger HellCat with the 700+hp supercharged 6.2L hemi and still weighing in at 2 tons--so I know what you mean.


Oh, man! I absolutely loved the '77 model Trans Am. My wife and I owned two of them - both of them were white with the (in)famous "screaming chicken" on the hoods! We managed to make it through the first kid with the T/As, but when the second one came along we had to get a little more practical. That's when my beloved wife started driving family sedans and I sold the T/As and started buying and restoring 1969 GTOs. The last of the four I owned was treated to a frame-off restoration. I personally restored every nut and bolt back to factory finish, and that experience sated my desire to ever do it again - unless I was getting paid to do it for somebody else, that is!

One of my friends has two Challenger R/Ts, but is now lusting for a Hellcat. But that is way out of his price range until he gets his inheritance! I love those cars. Good on you for owning one.

GeeDeeEmm
 
"Content" in terms of music is mainly 60's, 70's and 80's rock, alt, folk, punk and metal--not notoriously well engineered/recorded--especially a lot of the live recordings
Perhaps that's one reason I listen to few "live" pop/rock recordings since the venues are typically dreadful sounding even if you were there!
 
My uncle just bought a new (2017) Honda CRV that has more hp and weighs 1000 lbs less than my '77 Trans Am T/A 6.6-still weighing in at 2 tons
Sorry, but you are mistaken. I too, had a (78) Trans Am which has a curb weight around 3600 lbs. Even the lowest trim level 2WD CRV weighs just under 3400 lbs - not much difference.

I do find it interesting that my 4450 lb Ridgeline can do 0-60 in less time and match the old TA's lateral acceleration of 0.8 Gs - albeit using 245/60-18s on 8" rims vs 225/70-15s on 7" rims.
 
[QUOTE="savatage1973, post:
This is a fallacy that is currently being discussed in another thread regarding speaker driver size, materials and performance. I have lots of JBL's that have 12" woofers that could only dream about getting anywhere near 30-35Hz--they just don't dig that deep. OTOH, I have a more modern (still 20+ years old) pair of JBL's that have an 8" woofer and can easily maintain performance down to 40Hz and have more than double (almost triple) the power handling of my L100's from 1977. Sometimes there IS a "replacement for displacement"--a brand new Honda Civic with a tiny 4-banger will eat an early to mid 70's big block Vette for lunch--and get 30 mpg doing it--think about it--technology has changed a lot of things.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmm maybe, and I agree that there are smaller, high efficiency speakers that go surprisingly low. I own a pair of Hornshoppe Horns "The Horn" that make an astonishing amount of bass from a 4 inch full range Fostex driver, but I have to admit that when compared to the performance that two (or more) dedicated subs can provide there is simply no contest! 40Hz is fine but you need to go way down if you like pipe organ music (and I love it) because pipe organs can go down to 16 Hz! But my Horns couldn't do that. They are lucky to get to 60 Hz! at least in my setup.
 
Sorry, but you are mistaken. I too, had a (78) Trans Am which has a curb weight around 3600 lbs. Even the lowest trim level 2WD CRV weighs just under 3400 lbs - not much difference.

I do find it interesting that my 4450 lb Ridgeline can do 0-60 in less time and match the old TA's lateral acceleration of 0.8 Gs - albeit using 245/60-18s on 8" rims vs 225/70-15s on 7" rims.
just for comparison,my 70 Trans Am with a Chevy 396 and a turbo 400 with no AC weighed over 3,900
new vehicles also have much lower 1st gears and lower differential gears than the 80's thanks to 4-5 speed automatics (and more now) and lockup converters.
 
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Those who have spent time with test tones/frequency generators know just how well (or how poorly) different speakers with the same, say 40hz, roll-off spec can handle that frequency. They ain't all equal by a long shot, a moonshot.
 
Those who have spent time with test tones/frequency generators know just how well (or how poorly) different speakers with the same, say 40hz, roll-off spec can handle that frequency. They ain't all equal by a long shot, a moonshot.

This is so true--and not all manufacturers "accurately" represent the frequency response of their speakers--some will specify +/- 3db over a given range, other are +/-6 db, higher end may specify +/- 1.5 db, but others just list a frequency range--no "bump" or "roll-off" (no +/- db) specifications--so the actual audible characteristics are widely variable.

Same is true for "nominal" impedance ratings--it is "composite" rating--some frequencies are driven as a 10 or 16 ohm load, while others may drop to near a dead short--I know first-hand from owning Apogee's and Infinity Kappa 9's. It is what it is, and all things are NOT created equal.
 
just for comparison,my 70 Trans Am with a Chevy 396 and a turbo 400 with no AC weighed over 3,900

My '77 TA with the T/A 6.6 (400 ci Pontiac big block vs the 6.6L 403 ci Oldsmobird engine) weighed in at almost a full 4000 lbs (two tons)--it was well equipped (with air), but it was also a T-top model (first year for that)--and the T-tops were a factory sub-contracted modification done by the (now defunct) American Hatch Corporation. The mods required for chassis stability and the fact that the panels were 3/8" thick safety glass (not lexan, like the newer factory tops) added an additional 200+ lbs to the curb weight off the showroom floor. It was a beast, and I enjoyed it when I had it.
 
just for comparison,my 70 Trans Am with a Chevy 396 and a turbo 400 with no AC weighed over 3,900
new vehicles also have much lower 1st gears and lower differential gears than the 80's thanks to 4-5 speed automatics (and more now) and lockup converters.
I was referring to factory models as opposed to custom builds. Curb weights are easy to find.

Indeed having a T top added weight. I kept mine for fewer than two years as it was a lemon - had several major issues. When the A/C compressor locked at 18 months, I ended up purchasing the first of many Hondas.

I confess that I prefer lighter sports cars like the S2000 and Boxster that followed.
 
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