Gun Porn

Discussion in 'Sports & Outdoor Adventure' started by Yamaki, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. Poultrygeist

    Poultrygeist Lunatic Member

    I was a cannoneer on an M42 Duster back in the day. Took two ammo humpers to keep those twin 40's going.

     
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  2. Harvestor

    Harvestor Super Member

    I was wondering if that was bigger...

    And yes you just cleared that up!..

    Lol wow!
     
  3. bigx5murf

    bigx5murf AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    The one I'm holding also isn't as robust as the actual load outs. This one I believe was one of the rounds used by maintenance to test function. That's why the finish is weak, to show chamber and extraction marks clearly. On the plus side, I was assured this one hasn't been in contact with radioactive rounds.
     
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  4. usedto

    usedto Lunatic Member

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    If you look to the right of this photo, you'll see a wooden cartridge leaning up against the wall. That was a training round used by the military. It's the exact same size and weight of a real round used to teach new recruits how to operate the gun. Years ago a place in Oakland called Bonanza Wholesale had a bunch of them for sale that they got from one of the local military auctions when they disposed of them. I also have a few 20mm dummy rounds that were also used for training. Most of that stuff has since dried up at the surplus auctions.
     
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  5. sanford12

    sanford12 Old Stuff New Stuff As long as it's Good Stuff Subscriber

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    Location:
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    Time for some mid winter shooting sports!

    Picked up a Sig P938 which is a cute little 1911 style 9mm semi auto and is a 7+1 sub compact and has a metal frame. It weighs 18.2 ounces with an empty mag and when you carry it in the case you feel like you need to check if it's there because it's so light. You'd think there would be a good chance that it would uncomfortable to shoot but that's far from the case. It was on the bulls eye from the get go. Here's a photo of the first 4 mags I shot. By far the fastest gun I shot well and the Taurus G2C was pretty quick to catch onto.. First 2 were at 15' and the 2nd 2 were at 21' I then used the laser. Last night I got it as close as I could shining it on the wall and lining the laser up with the sights and through pure dumb luck it was so close at 30' I left it alone. This is a great little pocket or ankle gun. A little pricey but the laser was included. I consider a good buy.

    First 4 mags 15 and 21' iron sights
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Bourbon

    Bourbon Drinkin' and dreamin' Subscriber

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    Just an update:

    Our School Security Team decided to adopt the VP9sk. I'm very happy about this, as I qualified with a score of 481/500. My instructor looked at me in the middle of our qualification session and said, "You could've just mailed your scores to me and saved your time." I felt really good, as I'd only put a couple boxes through the pistol before we went to the range. It's definitely the best shooting striker-fired pistol that I've ever shot (sorry, Glock)...and probably the best overall. If you're thinking about buying a new pistol, try one out. You won't be disappointed.

    But now that we've been given our certifications by the state, it feels kinda weird carrying a pistol to work.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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  7. Dirk Willims

    Dirk Willims AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I strongly support you schools position on arming staff. I spent 10 years here in my community as a School Resources Officer, by far the most rewarding law enforcement job I've ever had. Teachers and cops are a natural fit, as long as the focus is on what's best for the youth, district and community.

    I was fortunate I worked with some awesome school administrators, and teachers who were awesome, we were a team, this was not a cop in a school system, this was a cop on a team of folks doing and making informed choices which were in the best interest of our community and our youth.

    Face it, our youth are our future leaders. What better way to teach them then to incorporate all of them into solution identification.

    An example is, I'd see a minor crime committed, I'd contact the student and ask them to drop by my office when they were available. When the youth got their I would explain the violation. I would read exactly what the law said, and then I would ask them, " how you going to solve the issue" We let them fix it, as long as their solution was " reasonable"

    The trick was don't let their solution be so outlandish, that we allowed the kid to set themselves up to fail, knowing the solution they offered up was pie in the sky. Again the question is " what's reasonable"

    This was in the mid 90s.welearned that once the kids knew the rules, that the kids made good informed choices, generally.

    The teachers and me introduced a class we called it " law Chat". I made a huge mistake, my wife's a teacher so I prepared a ciriculm, went into class and failed miserably. So I winged it, I asked the kids to ask law related questions they wanted answered, and we explored the written letter of the law, and reasonable parts. We talked about " teachable moments, and the class was to,my surprise a complete sucess, the students made it so.


    I was always amused the absolute first legal questions in EVERY first class where's sex related, boys girls age and consequences. I,taught search and seizure anywhere the students wanted to go. They were read the rules and we discussed application and outcomes, in their language.

    St one point I was advised by the teachers that on Friday nights my associates were pulling the kids over and without Proboable cause searching the cars. The teachers were offended and asked me to educate the students on their rights. And I did.

    After those classes were over. I got called into the Chiefs office, all the command was present and they were pissed. Seems my associates were pissed that I was teaching our community youth, their constitutional rights. I was floored, I was pissed and I pushed right back.

    Two commanders ordered me to NOT teach search and seizure. And I told then to F off. Our youth had every right to know what their rights are. We had an obligation to teach them.

    I was disiplined over this, cuz I told then to F off. Went to the school told the admin and teachers I'd be gone for a week, and told them why. The school district called the district attorney demanding an audience. Once the DA learned what the PD admin had suggested he called a meeting between everybody.

    I was called in and ordered to not repeat what the commanders had said in the closed door meeting. Yea right. Sure chief.
    Someone invited the media. " not me". By the end of the day. Two commanders had been demoted, and the media made a huge deal about it. The unlawful car searches were a big deal. And not happening anymore.

    The teachers school admin saved me. And they were right. Truth of the matter is, the chief should have been fired aswell. I should mention that the DA and the Judges were very involved in this SRO program, we as a team had turned our youth, their education and their rights into a win win situation.

    Sadly I felt huge heat. And I just wasn't comfortable working for a police department who wanted me to lie to our youth.

    The SRO,program was the best ten years of my 25 year career. Nothing but respect for my associates within our school districts. Not so much for my old agency.

    With a heavy heart I retired about six months later, went back to California, where I'd started.

    Sorry long winded. Our youth our schools, everybody in those schools need to be protected at all costs.

    I was involved in the SRO thing early on and was able to set security protocols for our community. As an example in the infancy of SROs doctrine for school shooters was for officer to respond but to await for at least a second officer before entering.

    That can not happen,, seconds count people are being killed. And I got in trouble for telling the bosses I refused to wait, I was going after the shooter, ain't no waiting. Their was no love loss between me and them,

    I'm so pleased that your school has the wisdom to see what needs to happen. I believe schools with armed staff with not be targeted. Make sure you have HUGE signs at every entrance announcing school staff are armed and cleared to aggressively engage a shooter.


    Congrats to you and your district

    Dirk Williams
    Retired Police Officer Oregon
    Retired Deputy Sheriff California.
     
  8. John James

    John James "Bob's your uncle" (Stolen) Subscriber

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    Thanks for a powerful story.

    (Thanks for your service also!)
     
  9. Bourbon

    Bourbon Drinkin' and dreamin' Subscriber

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    LA - Lower Arkansas

    Thank you for your amazing story and your commitment to protecting and educating those kids. It's a shame that your time as SRO ended in disappointment. We've always had an SRO, but until this year, the SRO was an on-duty policeman who didn't want to be in the school and took every opportunity to leave the campus. Fortunately, that's changed, and we now have a dedicated officer who has kids in the school. He wants to be there.

    Before moving to administration, I taught social studies - American History and American Government. I inserted a 6-week program of "Street Law" into the Government class that the students loved. It was much like what you taught your kids. I agree that kids should be taught their rights and responsibilities under the law. It was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done as an educator.

    I also agree that when confronted with a shooter, there isn't time to waste. We have been trained to buy time. Police response time has been estimated at 3-5 minutes. That's how much time we have to try to buy. If we can do that, law enforcement can take over. The problem is that a lot of bad stuff can happen in that amount of time. We just hope that we can get there early.

    And yes, every door in the district has a large, obnoxious sticker that reads, "PROTECTED BY ARMED SECURITY." We're in the process of making large street signs to post at all vehicular entrances as well. Hopefully, that will serve as a deterrent.

    The one area that seems lacking to us is the training. We only got 40 hours before being certified. To deal with this lack of training, some of us are planning to become Level II law enforcement officers (those who work less than 20 hours per month). We will get 240 hours of training, which should help us in the event of an actual shooting. I'm not exactly sure what this training will include, but I am sure that it will be better than what we've had so far.
     
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  10. Dirk Willims

    Dirk Willims AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    You guys will be ok, the key to response is training, entry/exit points, the truth of the matter is you have anybody with a gun in a school, the switch has been flipped. That individual needs to be addressed swiftly. " If" the shooters NOT shooting, oppertunity exists to talk them down from cover, in fact if that situation pops up, the shooter hasn't engaged anybody a great oppertunity exists to talk them down.

    I have to share a concern with you. I'm sick and tired of all the needless killing by my brothers and sisters, of innocent people. Their is no need for it. I attribute these senseless killings as piss poor police training, and then the District Attorney's protecting the police shooter.

    I also attribute the killing of unarmed citizens to cops who are a poor fit in law enforcement. It is rare that a cop is held accountable for,what is clearly a murder, under the color of authority. A badge and the trust of the people, we police serve is not a license to kill. I expect better from EVERY officer.

    Back to your school. I've got one piece of advice, shoot, shoot and shoot some more. Try combat pistol courses, " if part of your job description is " protection of the kids" which it is, you may be able to write off th ammo and training.

    I attended many trainings at my own expense, which I was able to write off. I spent a great deal of time at weapons related schools, from advance advance sniper schools to entry, to advanced pistol schools, not to be a better shooter, but to better understand that I didn't need to shoot.

    May I suggest a book to read, it's named " On Killing" I think it's Dr Fackler, contribution. I may have the author wrong. Anyways their are several studies and books available to better understand the mind of a shooter, again it's all tools to learn with and from.,

    Lastly I need you to understand this killing a fellow american citizen, in our home community is nothing like killing an enemy combatant in dirkadirkastan, the physiology of killing a fellow citizens in our own home community is devastating for the shooter, their wife, their children. It is likely that you, your family will know the deceased. Their family their extended family. Shop in the same stores, perhaps even pray in the same house of worship.

    The personal costs is HUGE. A healthy relationship with ones higher power, whom I call God, is helpful.


    Bottom line know yourselves, know your strengths, know your weaknesses. The wise man works very hard on their weaknesses. I know I do. I try hard to move my weaknesses into,my strengths side. God forbid, you have to address a shooter, and shots have been fired, the focus, for you must be locate and kill the shooter. All the while you may be passing your kids in the hallway whom are seriously injured, and asking, begging for your assistance.

    That's a tough one, but you MUST first shut the shooter down.

    One of the protocols I developed was to instantly dial 911, as I moved thru the school, keeping a running dialog for the dispatchers. Don't answer questions just talk, identify who,you,are, that you are an armed teacher and that you are searching to,engage the shooter. As you walk describe exactly what your wearing, " this is critical" but continue to hunt, describing everything you seem , locations where the shots are coming from, numbers of students down, should you cross empty bullet casing, identify possible caliber, it you can't try to identify pistol VS rifle casings.

    Keep talking and putting your location out, and where you think your going, which will be the fastest route to the shooter. When you do locate the shooter, don't announce your arrival shot him/her, shot them until,they are no longer a threat. Move forward and recover their weapon. " understand that you just picked up critical evidence" however leaving the shooters weapon is unexceptable.

    After your certain their are no more shooters, you have secured the weapons, immediately start EMS, on your students, starting with the gravest wounded. Realize that some are not going to make it. ,remain focused and continue to talk on your cell to 911.

    You will be the police's eyes and ears, direct them in and to your exact location. Dispatch will also be directing EMS, per your detailed directions you gave as you moved to engage the bad guy. The Intel you putting out WILL save lives.

    Understand that after the incident your weapon, and any officers involved will have their weapons sized as evidence. It's ok, it routine stuff.

    Also understand you may be read your rights per Miranda " I've had my weapon Siezed three times in my career" along with Miranda rights read to me. It's surreal, but it's just how it works. Understand that you may not know the answers to the questions being asked. It's ok the schools indoor cameras will have tracked you, and documented your actions.

    I'll leave it at that. Carrying a weapon comes with a lot of responsibility. While your actions will be questioned, your going to be fine.

    Sorry I just think it important to understand the nuts and bolts of how it works.

    Best to you. I'm really proud of you and your district for stepping up and finding solutions that are truly in the best interests of your community.



    Dirk Williams
     
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  11. Bourbon

    Bourbon Drinkin' and dreamin' Subscriber

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    Location:
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    Thank you for that. You should be in the business of training LEOs and school security personnel as myself - as everything you just mentioned was part of my training (almost verbatim). You should write a how-to manual for this...seriously.

    When I was first approached with this idea, I said no. I wanted no part of it. But after a couple months, I decided that if the worst scenario developed, I just couldn't stand by and do nothing while my kids were harmed. That's why I'm in this situation and seeking advice wherever I can find it. Thanks again!
     
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  12. VinylHanger

    VinylHanger Navigaret ex ironia

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    Where did you find a holster for that. I have a 5 inch barreled one. Uh, I mean, I might have one if it didn't fall into the river last summer...

    Anyway, it is in a crappy one size fits all nylon holster now, when it's out of it's case, but would love to find a nice one for it. I love the 625. It is a beast. Mine was owned by a competition shooter and has a nice light trigger.
     
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  13. John James

    John James "Bob's your uncle" (Stolen) Subscriber

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  14. Dirk Willims

    Dirk Willims AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I'm amused, when I walked from law enforcement, after 25 ish years, I never looked back. The corruption of a few, tainted us all, especially us honest ones. I will NEVER be a part of any law enforcement agency ever again. I shared my views on the unlawful police shootings. My anger for the system protecting the system, will Never abate.

    If I can help guys like you, I'm fine with that.

    Keep in mind an entire new industry has evolved out of school saftey. For them, it's about the money, not the children. I could never be apart of that either.

    The saftey of our children is far to important then trying to capitalize on. The limited dollars each school district has yearly, needs to be about education. When you split a dime all you have is a nickel.


    Best to you.

    Dirk Williams
     
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  15. Dirk Willims

    Dirk Willims AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    May her retirement ROCK. I don't know the name, I think female SRO s do fantastic jobs. They somehow sense the specific need our youth need and for some reason can't or won't ask. Pride especially in Hispanic communities is an amazing thing.

    Our community is 60% Hispanic. These wonderful families simply would not except help. So I use to purchesed burritos and other food specific to the Hispanic community. By the 100s. My wife taught in the district aswell. We believed in supporting our people. Not uncommon to purchase 1000 items a year, the food was authentic and fantastic.

    For the ten years I was the SRO, our families got authentic cooked foods, when we explained to my parents, my wife's parents aunts and uncles why we purchased quantities to help support 15, sometimes 25 families in the non farming season.

    I also worked closely with the local food bank again supporting our families in need. Coats for kids, shoes for kids,

    And I delivered it all in my black and white patrol car.

    It's Christmas, and I get choked up. I pray that these programs are still happening, although I don't know if they are.

    My hours were 7:30 to 4:30, I got to school at 06:00 trouble shot issues needing addressed before school, and I usually got back to the station around 18:30 19:00 long days, but effective days.

    Congrats to you lady SRO friend on making it,

    Merry Christmas to you all.

    Dirk Williams
     
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  16. rudedogg

    rudedogg AK Member Subscriber

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    D6DF6019-C73B-4B61-93AA-6100B8C783AB.jpeg
    Picked up a new plinker, a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor...any suggestions and/or personal experiences with nice optics for this let me hear them!
     
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  17. Yamaki

    Yamaki Not For Hire Subscriber

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    Nice "plinker" there, rudedogg! I've been wanting to try the 6.5 Creedmoor in an RPR.

    Let us know what you think after you get the chance to shoot it some.

    I'm partial to Vortex Optics. Great value for the money. I use a couple of their Crossfire II models and really like them.

    Good luck with the plinker,
     
  18. rudedogg

    rudedogg AK Member Subscriber

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    Thanks Yamaki.
    I have been wanting to get a long range “toy” if you will, for awhile now. When younger, I loved to go into the local quarry and shoot 22lr, .223, and .308 rifles at targets or beer cans ( in a valley with a high natural backstop). I never shoot for fun any more, and I figured this may prompt me to get back into it somewhat. With this rifle, I can go out to the longest local range and really test myself! I think there is a 700 yard range pretty close by.
    I still read the occasional gun and sportsman rags, and the RPR has been the talk of the town as a relatively “inexpensive” precision rifle for awhile soooo....
    Merry Christmas to me! Lol. I have talked with a few enthusiasts, and as you say, Vortex is highly regarded. Also some recommendations on Night Force optics (ugh!$$$$) as well. I know glass for this will be a little pricey, just want to stay somewhere around $1k or under...
     
  19. Dirk Willims

    Dirk Willims AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Nice stick, lots of nice glass on the market, what's your budget. No arguments with the high end Vortex scopes. I've got three of the the Vortex Razor HDII's their 4.5x27x56, their all the EBR - 2C in MRAD. After I quit shooting for my police agency, I could no longer justify my Schmidt& Bender PM II With thef4 reticles. I've also got three of these on rifles aswell.

    The PM II's were 3800.oo, back in the late 90s. By far the best scopes I've used. I changed to the Razor, with our dept letter head we could pick up the razor for 1700.00 and change. A very fine scope. I've also got lupold Mark4s and a MK 6. I'm just not a fan of the mk4 and the MK-6. I'm a fan of a zero F stop, the MK 4 Will dial right thru your zero, screwing up everything. Even on the range I dial down after every shot, then reapply my dope for the next shot. It's just how I do it. I like consistency. I've seen so,e world class shooters fail to dials their turrets back to,zero. Then at the next station range, and dial in their new dope right on top of the last range correction.

    I've had the honor of shooting many many high end scopes at sniper schools, some dam fine glass.

    If I were purchasing a new scope, and money wasn't an issue I'd be looking for the Tangant Theo, this purchase. remarkable glass. Use to be US Optics. The American scope builders have come light years in glass prism making, some really decent glass on the market.

    If you have access, you need to shoot over many different scopes. You need to find what works for you. Every scope has a issue. The S&B PMII tends to tunnel at times once you know the brands weakness their are always work arounds.

    Good luck to you.

    Dirk Williams
     
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  20. Dirk Willims

    Dirk Willims AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    1911s are gods gift to pistol,shooters!. I collect 1911s, carried,a,1911 on duty for 25 years. Some very nice pistols here. Also collect Hi Powers.

    Priced a 70 series yesterday, it's a colt, and an awesome pistol in perfect condition. 1800.00. I've got 12 already, " not all colts" springfields, Para's Kimber, and believe it or not a Taurus 1911.best 500.00 pistol,I've,ever,shot, triggers sweet, and I'm amazed at the accuracy.

    Nice pistols. Yamaki, did you use to be a deputy sheriff in Hood River County?


    Dirk
     
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