HDCD Surprise! and a Question

HDCD was a bit of an odd format. The process required the master to be HDCD encoded, and the audio to be HDCD decoded, upon playback. As mentioned, the Pacific Microsonics chipsets were the best, but they typically only appeared in expensive, high end gear. I had a Parasound DAC that could decode a HDCD disc, and while it didn't use the Pacific Microsonics DAC's, it still sounded very good.

Also, concerning 'false positives'. A master needed HDCD encoding, but the PQ Subcode (the Table Of Contents / TOC of the CD) also had an area set aside for HDCD. There was an ON/OFF 'Flag' that needed to be set to ON, if HDCD encoding was present. I'd often receive master tapes, with no encoding, but the TOC HDCD Flag had been set to ON. So, on playback, the CD player would activate the HDCD display, and try and decode the audio, but there would be no audible benefits.
 
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I have Joni Mitchel and Dead CDs (and others) that are known HDCD recordings WITH the features enabled.

The Hejira HDCD sounded great with decoding. It remained my reference tillthe HD version got released.

I have a (copy) of a Garth Brooks thats stamped HDCD but it does not have any of the headers. I don't know if it was manufacturing defect or what. 5 different copies behaved the same.
 
The Hejira HDCD sounded great with decoding.
It remained my reference tillthe HD version got released.

What is "the HD" version? I have BluRay PureAudio of a couple Albums (Quadrophenia and Beck's Sea Changes, for instance)
that are both gorgeous - but they are BluRay
 
Thanks for reminding me, I just downloaded the HDCD plugin for Foobar... you do have to paste some code in to actually display HDCD though.
 
What is "the HD" version? I have BluRay PureAudio of a couple Albums (Quadrophenia and Beck's Sea Changes, for instance)
that are both gorgeous - but they are BluRay

192khz 24bit from HDTracks.

BluRay audio? Heard of them....never invested in one. I never saw that going anywhere.
 
192khz 24bit from HDTracks.

BluRay audio? Heard of them....never invested in one. I never saw that going anywhere.
Ah, thanks for the info - so its purchased/downloaded HD tracks ...

About the PureAudio discs, well, since I already had the Oppo BluRay player - all it cost was the discs ...
Quadrophenia: [Blu-ray PureAudio] $19 shipped.
Sea Change [Blu-ray PureAudio] also $19 shipped ...
Since I like both albums and Sea Change in SACD or any hiRes format was unobtainium, it was a fine price. And I do like having a physical disc of my media.
 
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Ah, thanks for the info - so its purchased/downloaded HD tracks ...

About the PureAudio discs, well, since I already had the Oppo BluRay player - all it cost was the discs ...
Quadrophenia: [Blu-ray PureAudio] $19 shipped.
Sea Change [Blu-ray PureAudio] also $19 shipped ...
Since I like both albums and Sea Change in SACD or any hiRes format was unobtainium, it was a fine price. And I do like having a physical disc of my media.

Yeah...I remember when both "Pure Audio Blu-Ray" and "High Fidelity Pure Audio" which were different initiatives for a Blu-Ray audio format by two different labels were coming out. The main concern was yet another failure for a disc format that was hindered by being a different and slightly incompatible standard like DVD-Audio was to DVD-Video....but apparently both work on standard Blu-Ray players and are (I'm guessing) just uncompressed PCM audio containing literally just audio. I almost bought one a time or two do see how hard the audio would be to "liberate" from the disc.....but I never actually heard much about it. I still don't know where the format stands...I'm pretty sure I could go on Amazon or something and get some for about $20/each to give it a try...but most of the stuff released on those has wound up on HDTracks/AcousticSounds. The thing that got me was most of the Pure Audio releases I saw on the initial list were just 96/24, though 192/24 was supported. Maybe I should look in to if they're still releasing stuff on it or if it's gone the way of audiophile niche like SACD has.

But that's basically all Blu-Ray audio is....just HD PCM audio formatted for Blu-Ray. I could probably make them if I knew the specifics of how the disc was formatted.

Physical media is nice; but I learned a very long time ago it has the downfall of being physical...so damage and theft have been the two downfalls with me for it. So if it's a physical disc I back it up...and if it's downloaded it goes in to the collection...which gets backed up in 3 places.

Even the SACDs.

Seriously.
 
might be off topic a bit,but I've always wondered why my Adcom GDA 700 with HDCD chip will display an HDCD light with every cd player I've inserted except my Marantz cc4000 OSE ???? any answers?
I have the same Dac and also had the same Marantz changer and it did not pass the HDCD for some reason but the Adcom is fussy , I have had a few other players that it would not even lock on to all ? But I love the sound of that Adcom .
 
I have the same Dac and also had the same Marantz changer and it did not pass the HDCD for some reason but the Adcom is fussy , I have had a few other players that it would not even lock on to all ? But I love the sound of that Adcom .

I picked up a Marantz CD6006 last night thinking it might be a one box solution , switching back and forth to the Marantz dac vs the Adcom I prefer the Adcom dac , but the Marantz throws a wider sound stage where the Adcom sounds more of a narrow soundstage , but vocals are better using the Adcom dac and lound passages get sort of cd-sish sounding on the Marantz's internal dac . Will have to let it play more and see what happens .
 
I bought a new Yamaha universal disc player a month ago. Yesterday I loaded Lateralus by Tool and noticed that the player flashed "HDCD." I was not aware that the player was capable of playing HDCD's

Mellotonix,
Sorry for being late to your post. I likewise have a Yamaha universal player, namely the BD-S677. I had it for a short while in a home theater and only watched 4 movies with it and a handful of CDs. Home Theater was not my interest so I sold all but the player. I now have the analogue outputs hooked up to a 2-channel integrated amp and recently notice the HDCD icon flashing with one of my few HDCDs The sound quality was much better than regular CDs so I'm confident the analogue outputs carry the decoded HDCDs. Now I'm on the hunt for used HDCDs and SACDs. I don't know which model you have but the BD-S677 with its 192khz/32bit DAC is an outstanding music player for CD, HDCD and SACDs. I think the sound is so very good that I'm interested in the new BD-A1060 universal player w/ balanced outputs, of which my integrated amp has. I will patiently wait until I sell my current player sells on CL. Either way the 677 sounds so good I could easily live with it.
Mike
 
I picked up an Assemblage DAC which decodes HDCD and immediately set about acquiring HDCDs. They're usually mixed in with other titles at large used CD stores (like Amoeba, if you're in Cali). I found the sound on most HDCDs quite vivid. Unfortunately there's a paucity of titles, but I was pleased to find some OK jazz titles, including "Blues in Orbit" by Duke which is half HD. The Art Ensemble releases on Atlantic sound great in HD ("Fanfare for the Warriors"). I wasn't able to find many HD jazz vocal releases.

The HD is a little more apparent on certain rock releases, especially Roxy Music's catalog, not so much for Joni Mitchell's catalog (altho I will say Jaco Pastorius in HD is a lot of fun). I haven't heard the Neil Young releases.

I was really impressed by the HDCD version of Springsteen's 4 CD set "Tracks". Haven't heard the Petty box set.

I do have a multibit DAC now, but I'll have to swap my transport so I can get one that would accommodate both toslink and coaxial and then switch between the DACs when I want to hear HDCD. The multibit is superior, IMHO, for redbook CDs (non HD) to the Assemblage, probably because the Assemblage is 20+ years old.
 
What Assemblage DAC is that? Based on what I can find Assemblage 1, 2, 3 DACs were using Burr Brown Multi-Bit DAC modules 1702/1704, so if your Assemblage is one of those it is a true multibit DAC. In fact those Burr Brown MB DAC chips being 20-24 bit resolution are vastly superior to what's in the Modi Multibit (16 bits on paper, probably more like 14 in real life). The "superiority" likely comes from the Modi's immunity to jitter as it has an internal DSP buffer and its DAC chip is clocked from a stable internal oscillator vs. the clock embedded in the jittery SPDIF signal for the Assemblage. Throw in a decent SPDIF jitter killer/reclocker between your transport and the Assemblage (e.g. iFi SPDIF iPurifier, there are others too) and use quality coax digital interconnects, and you may find it sounds better than the Modi.
 
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The Hejira HDCD sounded great with decoding. It remained my reference tillthe HD version got released.

I have a (copy) of a Garth Brooks thats stamped HDCD but it does not have any of the headers. I don't know if it was manufacturing defect or what. 5 different copies behaved the same.

> I have a (copy) of a Garth Brooks thats stamped HDCD but it does not have any of the headers.
> I don't know if it was manufacturing defect or what. 5 different copies behaved the same.

I have tested the following 'Garth Brooks : The Ultimate Hits' 3-disc sets
(ie : 2-CD's + a DVD):
- 'Limited Edition', catalog # 85420-6001-213-01 (w/Garth facing to side)
- <standard edition>, catalog # 85420-6001-213-03 (w/Garth facing FWD, looking to side)
- 'The Pink Edition, catalog # 85420-6001-213-11 (w Garth facing FWD w/pink bkground)
and every one (all from Pearl Records) is marked on back artwork w/'HDCD',
& every CD's skin marked w/'HDCD',
BUT not one of them is encoded w/HDCD, they're all just RedBook.
And that was confirmed on an Oppo 95 & Oppo 103D (both w/HDCD Decode = 'ON')
as-well-as a Dell E6540 enterprise laptop (w/WMP 24bit enabled).

CAVEAT:
Per musicbrainz.org, catalog 88697195522 for the same title was done by Sony (so not Pearl)
but it's also AU-based so the DVD is PAL,
but one would hope that Sony confirmed it was HDCD encoded before pressing them.

Anyway, many of Garth's CD's claim to be 'HDCD' encoded
but I now wonder if any of them really are...


> ...but it does not have any of the headers.
There may be a 'HDCD' field/bit in a CD's Table of Contents (ToC) as well as in the music tag of each song,
I do not know, but per Pacific Microsonics explanation
of their HDCD decoding process :
"When the (HDCD encoded) signal is fed to an HDCD decoding system, the information hidden in the LSB tells the
system that the signal is HDCD encoded, and directs the decoding to reconstruct the high resolution signal,
which is then output in the correct form for the D/A converter being used."
So any HDCD-related TOC/tag contents will be ignored, leaving the HDCD decoder to validate the
presence of HDCD content (turning on HDCD front panel indicator) and decoding same
(... at least that’s how it should work, IMO, otherwise if the TOC/tag contents were set by _accident_ when authored
& the decode designer allowed that to enable HDCD decoding when the songs were never HDCD encoded
it would likely sound pretty bad. And obviously Pearl Records is making mistakes w/their HDCD claims.).
FWIW : The HDCD Sampler Volume 2 (Reference Recordings UPC 030911190521) has samples of 3 pairs of songs in both HDCD & RedBook for comparison, so you see the HDCD front panel indicator go ON/OFF during the play of each pair.
 
You will need to use analog output. On all digital outputs it will likely send unprocessed 44.1/16 stream. I didn't see any transport that processes HDCP for digital output. It could be a limitation of license for that technology.

> You will need to use analog output.
> On all digital outputs it will likely send unprocessed 44.1/16 stream.
> I didn't see any transport that processes HDC(D) for digital output.
From what I've seen that is 100% the norm for almost all players.

The only exception is the Oppo BDP series of players w/SPDIF outputs,
ie:
OppoDigital When to Enable HDCD Decoding
https://www.oppodigital.com/KnowledgeBase.aspx?KBID=44&ProdID=BDP-95

I have verified this (BDP-95) on a small subset of HDCD CD's that never approach 0db Max Peak Hold when decoded,
ie: When Oppo's HDCD Decode=ON their typ Max PH's fall in range of -5db <-> -2db.
—vs—
the exact same HDCD title bumping 0db Max PH's when Oppo's HDCD Decode=OFF
(the latter which is, of course, very common for a RedBook to be doing).

To the best of my knowledge that BDP series of Oppos' w/SPDIF outputs are the only players that will allow you to get 100% bit-accurate rip of a HDCD when connected to digital recorder of adequate quality having SPDIF inputs. Also the only series of players that will allow you
to drive 100% bit-accurate decoded HDCD via SPDIF into your favorite DAC that happens to lack built-in HDCD decode.


> It could be a limitation of license for that technology.
Maybe that is one of the reasons Oppo unfortunately ceased making their players.
 
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I don't believe the UDP-203/205 had HDCD decoding capability.
Yes, you are correct, it is only the earlier BDP series of players that have HDCD decoders (as I mentioned).
(Some of the later BDP's can upscale 2K Blu-rays to 4K video while only the UDP can play 4K Blu-rays, hence the 'B' vs 'U'.)
 
So, after 4 years and 36 posts I have yet to read a definitive answer. Will an HDCD player pass teh HDCD info out it's coax output to a Dac?

Yes or no? Anyone sure what the answer is?
 
I bought a new Yamaha universal disc player a month ago. Yesterday I loaded Lateralus by Tool and noticed that the player flashed "HDCD." I was not aware that the player was capable of playing HDCD's or that Lateralus was mastered in this format. I scoured the Yamaha manual and found only one mention of HDCD in a chart on the last page. So, of course, I found a list of HDCD releases and collected the ones that I own. Now I'm wondering which output to use. I have an HDMI cable going to the TV and returning to my Yamaha integrated stereo amp using the optical cable. I also have the coaxial cable and the line outputs going directly to the amp. Unfortunately, the integrated amp does not have an HDMI input, but it does have a high quality DA converter capable of doing PCM at 32bit/352kHZ and DSD at very high bit rates. So, can I reproduce the HDCD discs using the coax or optical cable? Or should I use the balanced line outs and let the player decode the disc? Or am I SOL since there are no HDMI inputs? Any insights would be welcome here.
So, after 4 years and 36 posts I have yet to read a definitive answer. Will an HDCD player pass teh HDCD info out it's coax output to a Dac?
Yes or no? Anyone sure what the answer is?

My Oppo DV970HD has HDCD decoding (and SACD decoding), so I can feed the standard line out (RCA) connectors to my preamp, and feed the Coaxial or Optical out to a modern DAC for redbook CDs and such (its a pre BlueRay disc player).

To answer your question, I also have an older Audio Alchemy DDE3 DAC on that system that will decode HDCD (update: Most modern DACs will NOT decode HDCD) - so I use the Coaxial out to the DDE3 DAC and yes, the DDE3 DOES decode the HDCD signal that way.

I do have an Oppo BDP103D (Darby) universal player downstairs in the multichannel 7.1 system that does all the formats.
 
Will an HDCD player pass teh HDCD info out it's coax output to a Dac?

My understanding is that it exports the raw, 16/44k1 sample stream from the CD, via SPDIF, which would include the HDCD encoded stream. It does not export the decoded HDCD stream.

For the few HDCDs I've got, i use the MusicBee plugin to decode them. It even recognises them as FLACs. It decodes in real time, or it can do it as a one off, and then save as 24-bit FLAC, although it only uses about 18.
 
My understanding is that it exports the raw, 16/44k1 sample stream from the CD, via SPDIF, which would include the HDCD encoded stream. It does not export the decoded HDCD stream.

For the few HDCDs I've got, i use the MusicBee plugin to decode them. It even recognises them as FLACs. It decodes in real time, or it can do it as a one off, and then save as 24-bit FLAC, although it only uses about 18.

A little confused, we don't want the decoded HDCD passed, that is why we are sending it to a Dac, no?

We want the raw HDCD sent so the Dac can decode it, don't we?

That is the idea, bypass the player Dac and send the HDCD info to a better Dac, isn't it?

Thanks for the reply.
 
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