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HDMI 4K compatability

Discussion in 'Home Theater & Video' started by gary7, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. gary7

    gary7 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Just picked up a Onkyo TX-NR609. Specs say HDMI 1.4 but it says it has 4K upscaling. So am I correct that it will not pass a 4K signal such as from a 4K player?
     

     

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  2. Audiofreak71

    Audiofreak71 Boerboelicious Subscriber

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    I assume it will not pass a native 4k signal, why not go straight from the blue ray to the TV?. I'm from the not using the receiver as a pass through camp though and prefer to go hdmi straight from the blue ray to the TV for a much better less complicated signal.

    Audiofreak71
     
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  3. gary7

    gary7 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Unless the player has 2 HDMI outputs, it will also bypass the HD audio codecs.
     
  4. Audiofreak71

    Audiofreak71 Boerboelicious Subscriber

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    I guess I'm used to my oppo players which do have 2 so it allows you to go that route.


    Audiofreak71
     
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  5. whoaru99

    whoaru99 Epic Member

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    You'll need HDMI 2.0 to have 4k @ 60FPS.

    But perhaps even more importantly, to protect yourself as best possible now, be sure what you get has HDCP 2.2 in addition to the HDMI 2.0.
     
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  6. Audiofreak71

    Audiofreak71 Boerboelicious Subscriber

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    You are 100% with that one, by all means make sure it's hdcp 2.2 compliant, I made that mistake when I first got into 4k and im sure alot of people who took on the format in the beginning were caught up in that debocal like myself.

    Audiofreak71
     
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  7. diddlybopper

    diddlybopper AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I'm looking at the LG OLED 55" available at a great price but whats the debacol all about ? 2.2 compliant.
     
  8. Audiofreak71

    Audiofreak71 Boerboelicious Subscriber

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    In order to be able to display a 4k image with HDR your source, blue ray player and TV and hdmi cable has to be HDCP 2.2 compliant.

    Audiofreak71
     
  9. bigx5murf

    bigx5murf Super Member

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    I believe "4k upscaling" refers to the ability to upscale lower resolutions sources to 4k. HDMI 1.4 should pass 4k just fine, but be limited to 24fps.
     
  10. gary7

    gary7 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    That's what I've read. That would be fine. Only question is are the current 4K discs and players set for 24fps or are they higher? I picked up a Sony STR-DH550 cheap that says it it will pass 4k up to 60fps, is HDMI 2.0 capable, but not HDCP 2.2 compliant.
     
  11. Audiofreak71

    Audiofreak71 Boerboelicious Subscriber

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    Yes they are set for 24fps, do you care about HDR? You won't get HDR without that hdcp 2.2.

    Audiofreak71
     
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  12. whoaru99

    whoaru99 Epic Member

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    That means you will not likely get native 4k with the receiver in the chain.

    To get native 4k every device in the chain must be HDCP 2.2.
     
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  13. bigx5murf

    bigx5murf Super Member

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    Most movies are usually shot in 24fps. Broadcast TV is 30fps I believe. 60fps was more for gamers. At least thats how it was the last time I looked into it years ago.
     
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  14. whoaru99

    whoaru99 Epic Member

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    The frame rate thing is relative to HDMI. HDMI and HDCP, while they work hand in hand, are two completely different things.

    HDCP will block native 4k material (as opposed to upscaled) from passing unless you have HDCP 2.2 at every point in the connected chain the signal tries to pass through. This is regardless of what frame rate the HDMI version can support. If HDCP doesn't allow it, it doesn't happen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  15. gary7

    gary7 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    With all this said, who has or know who has had problems with their 4K equipment passing 4K video due to the HDCP standard?
     
  16. whoaru99

    whoaru99 Epic Member

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    Do you doubt it will happen?

    There is a limited amount of early 4k material and 4k gear that may work with HDCP 2.0, but it really is a dead end to buy anything without HDCP 2.2 if you are actually serious about 4k.

    The big "gotcha" is when someone thinks they are getting a deal on an early piece of gear to mix with their newer stuff (or vice versa) and hits this roadblock.

    Personally, I'm really, really glad I did not buy one of the early 4k sets. I debated long about it but decided to spent that money instead on one of the last 1080p plasma TVs. It ended up being a very good decision.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  17. gary7

    gary7 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Well I have a Sony 1080p 60" that I really like, but I got the 4K bug. So far the 2 4K TV's I had had issues with, so I took them back. Still looking.
     
  18. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Super Member

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    Very interesting thread here folks. ;)

    You should try distributing 1080P@24fps HDMI to (5) different room`s 1080P(non 4K) flat screen TV`s & a 4K Sony projector for a exercise in HDCP frustrations/adventures !!
    With very, very little knowledge about this, little did I know, when I started to delve into attempting this about six years ago, and no friends who were experienced or were inclined to be so adventurous. :dunno:

    My first BR DVD player is a 2009 Sony which had component output as well as HDMI, so I went that route first via Cat 6 + with passive RGB 60 Mhz. bandwidth baluns fed from a CalRad 500 Mhz. bandwidth active multi output splitter..
    Of course with Component, I was limited to, I think, 1080i, but the picture looked fine to me, also no 4 k Sony projector was installed at that time.

    So I used that setup for a couple of years until the Sony player wouldn`t play three of my BR DVD`s, even when it`s firmware was updated, and ironically two of the movies were Sony pictures releases, and Sony support was clueless !! :mad:

    I also borrowed a 25 ft. HDMI cable from my B-I-L to connect to one of my nearby spare bedroom`s Sony flat screen`s HDMI inputs from the Sony BR player, so I could toggle between Component and HDMI for comparison while playing a BR disc, and I could see enough of an improvement to start to look in to HDMI1080P @24fps distribution..

    First, I bought a 1080P@24fps 5 Gig. wireless HDMI setup(1 transmitter & 4 receivers) to look into this and this HDMI 1080P@24fps picture looked very good and very film like.

    When I advised my original A/V dealer about this wireless product to see if they knew about it, they told me that only one TV would be sent a 1080P resolution signal, which was their experience with another brand, and were surprised when I advised them that all 4 of my wireless HDMI connected TV`s reported 1080P@24fps resolution and they became very interested in what brand I had bought and was using.

    There was no HDCP handshake issues with this product setup/use.
    All these wireless unit`s firmware is usb flash drive updateable as the HDMI/HDCP specs. evolve..

    So, my new to me, A/V dealer encouraged me to purchase a OPPO BDP-103 to deal with my DVD non-play issues with the Sony, and I bought one from them, pulled the Sony and hooked it up the OPPO in my rack.

    Worked perfectly on all my BR DVD/CD`s, and I swear, it`s picture looked better than the Sony player through the same wireless HDMI setup in use..

    After some period of time I used this setup, but like all wireless systems, their prone to signal interference/glitches, which was not to my liking at all..

    Ok, now on to my big adventure, in hard wired HDMI1080P @24fps distribution and the HDCP issues that will rear it`s ugly head during my attempts.
    I had my whole house`s 5 rooms wired for Ethernet Cat. 6 + bandwidth rated (swept certified 600Mhz.) with 3 video sends(1 S-Video, 1 Component(RGB) & the 2 required for U/SVGA computer analog video send) and 1 audio feed lines per room, in 2010, so as to be able to grow into improved technologies as they became available in the future..

    2 of these video feeds(the limitations of passive baluns) were taken up with my rack`s lap-top for it`s S/UVGA output so I could monitor what was running on that rack laptop computer(usually NWS weather radar) in any room in my house, as this is important to me, living in FL.
    So if I was going to try hardwire HDMI Cat. 6 + feed through the house, I was going to either have to pay the increased labor costs, etc. to have another Cat 6 + line run to the 5 rooms and my old 1993 Barco 3 CRT/lens projector in my living room..

    So since neither of my A/V dealers had any experience with any of what I was doing, or going to try to do, I had to look into it myself..
    Well, I found a company called Atlona while looking on Markertek`s web site, so I looked at what they had to offer in the way of S/UVGA and 1080P@24fps HDMI Cat 5/67 active multi output distribution head end units that used 1 Cat feed cable per signal feed, so that gave me the HDMI line that I needed + Atlona also had 4K rated HDMI to Cat. 6/7 active transcoders/decoders baluns for me to buy for my newly purchased Sony 4K projector as well.

    Well after purchasing a butt load of expensive but very high performance, multi year warranted Atlona devices through my new A/V dealer, who represented Atlona, then the fun began..

    The S/UVGA feed/distribution was easy, but then came the really fun part of 1080P @24fps HDMI/HDCP handshake multi TV frustrating learning curve, as neither dealer`s where any help, as they had not done what I was doing.

    And with my 4K projector, the 4K HDMI output from the 4K up converting OPPO 103, and now the 4K direct 203 had to be preserved through any HDMI splitters, input selectors, etc. before it was sent to the 1080P only house distribution system !!

    You folks with one 1080P HDMI/HDCP source/display device really don`t know what frustration is, but the A/V multi flat screen display department at my local Best Buy people do, after I asked them if they ever had/have HDCP issue's with all those TV running !! The answer was: "OH YEAH" !!

    I figured how to turn on the equipment in the right sequence so I`m not accused(metaphorically speaking) of stealing copyrighted movies that when HDCP isn`t happy, I`m greeted with a Magenta hued, or bad acid trip looking BR DVD player`s splash screen !! :eek: + o_O

    Enjoy "Techno" simplicity Folks, where you can !! :thumbsup:

    Mercy Sakes Alive !!

    Sorry about this long winded HDMI techno babble.. :crazy: :blah:

    Kind regards, OKB
     
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  19. gary7

    gary7 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I probably have my HDCP problem solved. I got a Sony 60" KD-60X690E 4K TV Tuesday & an Onkyo TX-RZ900 HDCP 2.2 compatible HDMI today. The receiver is probably overkill for what I need, but I got it at a pawn shop for less than 1/3 list price. Going to hook it up in a little while, but I tested it and everything seems functional. Next on my list will be a 4K player. Any sugestions?
     
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  20. Duane

    Duane AK Member Subscriber

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    What's your budget for a player? OPPO machines, over the years, have pretty much been benchmarks. Their least expensive is the UDP-203. https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/
     
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