heard a serious system today

Well said ! My simple quote is you cant fix it if you don't know how it works .

So to repeat:

Listen and learn. Gain experience. You have to listen. Listen to Great Systems. Great systems are more than a collection of Great Components. Collections of Great Components do not necessarily make Great Systems. Learn what turns an ordinary sounding collection of Great Components into a Great Sounding System. Sometimes not one dollar needs to be spent to turn an underperforming collection of Great Components into a Great Sounding System. It might take the experience gained from understanding what is holding the Great Components back from providing Great Sound. Learn what is Great Sound. Learn what mistakes in system assembly and implementation/installment are. Learn how to rectify the mistakes. Reap the reward.
 
If you want to hear great systems and learn, get out of your house. There is a whole world out there where you get to listen to new stuff, pretty much for free.

People on AK hate to do this part, getting out of their house. We host gatherings three times a year, and rare indeed is the person who shows from AK that we don't know already.
 
Another way to hear different, maybe not great, systems is to seek out other AKers or folks on any forum you belong to that live close enough to you and ask. I am willing to let anyone hear what I have if they ask and are close, and I am sure many others would offer the same.
 
Another way to hear different, maybe not great, systems is to seek out other AKers or folks on any forum you belong to that live close enough to you and ask. I am willing to let anyone hear what I have if they ask and are close, and I am sure many others would offer the same.

Ditto, if anyone wants to check out some Quad 57's or KEF 107's...or any other gear I have. Besides these and a Juicy Blueberry pre and Monarchy amp, most of my gear is nothing to write home about, but feel free to come check it out if you're ever in/near Eastern Iowa!
 
Another way to hear different, maybe not great, systems is to seek out other AKers or folks on any forum you belong to that live close enough to you and ask. I am willing to let anyone hear what I have if they ask and are close, and I am sure many others would offer the same.
In my many jaunts to listen to both dealers' systems and private individuals' systems I have found that a collection of great components doesn't necessarily equate to a great sounding system. Without changing any component many of the disappointing sounding systems I have heard could have been vastly improved by better set-up and positioning of the speakers. In many instances I am convinced that the owner/demonstrator has no idea of truly great sound, therefore the compromised sound that they are hearing satisfies their notion of great sound and they pat themselves on the back and settle for that.

This is why it is important to listen to a range of systems. Preferably using the same records/discs/software. Some dealers and hifi buffs have deep pockets but zero idea of great sound.
 
Just a turn of phrase - not saying you said that. I am sure there are people who just buy for looks ( well, Wilson wouldn't be those speakers :) ). I think more now buy Bose for that now.
I just heard a few pairs of Wilsons. They are some of the ugliest speakers you can buy. They sound good, but there are others less expensive that many prefer.
 
The Wilsons I heard (Sasha or Sophia, can't remember) were the most expensive speakers I've heard to date, by quite a margin. The soundstage was ridiculously huge...never heard anything quite like it yet! I'm sure the room helped too. But I could see how some could think they are a little "analytical"...probably a lot of that depends on the associated gear and the room though.
 
I heard the Alexias with $200K of Burmester gear and MIT cables last saturday, and I also heard the new Sabrinas (not so ugly) driven by the top Burmester Integrated and the new Esoteric CDP. Both were pleasing, but I have heard better setups.
 
Go hear B&W 800 D3's. I found them one of the best speakers I have heard recently. The other was the Paradigm Persona 9H. The latter was not even setup in an optimum setting and it did everything amazingly well.
I recently heard them at Magnolia driven by the big McMonster amps and it was the hugest soundstage I ever heard. Another Butt Ugly speaker tho.
 
Compared to Wilson's? I think they are amazingly form to function beauty.
I just don't care for speakers that look like Cyclopes, reminds me of Nick Danger - Third Eye. I get the design and why they do what they do tho.
 
I have been on many forums and you rarely get a lot of consensus as to what the best is or the most accurate or whatever. Speakers tend to have inherent advantages and disadvantages - the single driver speaker for example has no crossover and is supremely coherent - Certain Electrostatic panels would also be included. So game set match to these speakers in certain areas. But a Big horn will often thump then in macro dynamic ease and the ability to create a live scale feeling. Big multi-driver cone speakers usually have the deepest bass and most bass impact and often the most treble impact. When you have a dedicated driver doing one thing it can do that one thing really well - but they all lose ground (often a lot of ground) on cohesion.

Some speakers (systems) have a a certain something something (as they say) that for whatever reason pulls the ole heartstrings while another somewhat similar speaker doesn't. For me it is the AN E (and AN J) and while I like and could own 2 dozen other speakers this one ticks the balance box for me - it doesn't do any one thing better than many other speakers but the overall package beats the sum of the individual strengths. I greatly prefer the sound of AN speakers to any Wilson speaker for example. Which isn't to say that the AN E is "better" but it is better but it is "better" to me. And since I'm the one spending the money and have to live with them.

I have had my "desert speaker" now since December and they are good enough to be my final speaker.

One note though about being disappointed with pricey systems is that room set-up and synergy are keys to all these evaluations. Consider that I have been to several shows dealers over many years auditioning a ton of things and have literally chosen some rooms as bottom five sound only to hear them at the very next audio show and rank them top 5. This in fact has happened with MBL and YG Acoustics, and Focal. Even with systems - You can very much like the sound of speaker with one set of gear and then not much care for it with other gear. I prefer my AN E speaker with 2A3 and 211 over 300B for example - and yes it is a BIG difference. The 300B presents and over there sound and is delicate and extremely "pretty" sounding which is why a great many people will choose that tube over the one that I prefer in the 2A3 which is big and ballsy and more upfront. But I listen to more than just classical music so the 2A3 has more drive - the 211 is the best for me but quite costly.

A SET based system would never win awards for technical superiority so you are not going to win forum arguments. But I went down that path for a decade with the measurements are kind approach and never liked the music. But disotrtion was low and frequency was flat. Meh.

Jupiter1610 hits in on the head for me. My dealer in Canada that carries B&W and AN and has had numerous speakers come and go have what my dealer calls "speakers for selling" and "speakers for owning" where he would put the B&W, Paradigms and others he sells in the first camp and Harbeth/AN/ and some other less sexy bit good sounding stuff in the second.

But let's be clear - that is HIS opinion and MY opinion. Those sonic merits that B&Ws possess in a big SS power system do have their merits and if those merits are critical or supremely important then Harbeth/AN won't be your cup of tea.

As I noted Tastes change - back in the middle 90s B&W was my "wish for" speaker. Now that I have my AN E and I listen to a B&W I think - how in the world was B&W my favorite? I love the looks of so many other speakers though over mine. Mine are so boring looking compared to those big sexy speakers like Focal MBL etc.

IMG_0639-audio-note-an-spe-he-speakers.jpg
 
I've been lucky to have several opportunities to hear systems costing over $500K.

You get those last few tenths of a percentage closer to 100%; however, it is certainly costly. I have had systems around $30K, and really felt that I was reaching that 97% range and to get any more detail was going to take big bucks. Not that I was apposed to that but it was more of a question of why, as it was pretty damn good as it was.
 
IMG_0024.JPG I have heard two times the custom horns built by Vu from DejaVu Audio in McLean, VA. Afterwards, I felt I should throw away all my gear. He has a couple of versions they are working on. Horn is a Japanese steel design based on Western Electrics. They were driven by his amp builder, Aldo, custom amps based on Western Electric components. Here are a couple of pictures -

IMG_0022.JPG

IMG_0023.JPG
 
View attachment 955108 I have heard two times the custom horns built by Vu from DejaVu Audio in McLean, VA. Afterwards, I felt I should throw away all my gear. He has a couple of versions they are working on. Horn is a Japanese steel design based on Western Electrics. They were driven by his amp builder, Aldo, custom amps based on Western Electric components. Here are a couple of pictures -

View attachment 955104

View attachment 955106
wow look at the time delay on that horn, strange design
 
I have been on many forums and you rarely get a lot of consensus as to what the best is or the most accurate or whatever. Speakers tend to have inherent advantages and disadvantages - the single driver speaker for example has no crossover and is supremely coherent - Certain Electrostatic panels would also be included. So game set match to these speakers in certain areas. But a Big horn will often thump then in macro dynamic ease and the ability to create a live scale feeling. Big multi-driver cone speakers usually have the deepest bass and most bass impact and often the most treble impact. When you have a dedicated driver doing one thing it can do that one thing really well - but they all lose ground (often a lot of ground) on cohesion.

Some speakers (systems) have a a certain something something (as they say) that for whatever reason pulls the ole heartstrings while another somewhat similar speaker doesn't. For me it is the AN E (and AN J) and while I like and could own 2 dozen other speakers this one ticks the balance box for me - it doesn't do any one thing better than many other speakers but the overall package beats the sum of the individual strengths. I greatly prefer the sound of AN speakers to any Wilson speaker for example. Which isn't to say that the AN E is "better" but it is better but it is "better" to me. And since I'm the one spending the money and have to live with them.

I have had my "desert speaker" now since December and they are good enough to be my final speaker.

One note though about being disappointed with pricey systems is that room set-up and synergy are keys to all these evaluations. Consider that I have been to several shows dealers over many years auditioning a ton of things and have literally chosen some rooms as bottom five sound only to hear them at the very next audio show and rank them top 5. This in fact has happened with MBL and YG Acoustics, and Focal. Even with systems - You can very much like the sound of speaker with one set of gear and then not much care for it with other gear. I prefer my AN E speaker with 2A3 and 211 over 300B for example - and yes it is a BIG difference. The 300B presents and over there sound and is delicate and extremely "pretty" sounding which is why a great many people will choose that tube over the one that I prefer in the 2A3 which is big and ballsy and more upfront. But I listen to more than just classical music so the 2A3 has more drive - the 211 is the best for me but quite costly.

A SET based system would never win awards for technical superiority so you are not going to win forum arguments. But I went down that path for a decade with the measurements are kind approach and never liked the music. But disotrtion was low and frequency was flat. Meh.

Jupiter1610 hits in on the head for me. My dealer in Canada that carries B&W and AN and has had numerous speakers come and go have what my dealer calls "speakers for selling" and "speakers for owning" where he would put the B&W, Paradigms and others he sells in the first camp and Harbeth/AN/ and some other less sexy bit good sounding stuff in the second.

But let's be clear - that is HIS opinion and MY opinion. Those sonic merits that B&Ws possess in a big SS power system do have their merits and if those merits are critical or supremely important then Harbeth/AN won't be your cup of tea.

As I noted Tastes change - back in the middle 90s B&W was my "wish for" speaker. Now that I have my AN E and I listen to a B&W I think - how in the world was B&W my favorite? I love the looks of so many other speakers though over mine. Mine are so boring looking compared to those big sexy speakers like Focal MBL etc.

IMG_0639-audio-note-an-spe-he-speakers.jpg
Hi Richard, can name some brands which come close to Audio note speakers when driven by mentioned tube amplifiers?
 
Hi Richard, can name some brands which come close to Audio note speakers when driven by mentioned tube amplifiers?

In the same general price range of the AN J (and other than the AN E, AN K and AZ Three) I have liked the Volti Rival, Pure Audio Project speakers. There's not a helluva lot of speakers that compete with the AN J IMO. Not for the money. Almost all of them will cost more OR you have to buy vintage which then need money usually to fix them up. When I moved to HK I heard some terrific DIY horns similar to the ones by VU but the US list price started at $50,000 and they sounded great but they also had $250,000 worth of Shindo and Analog Domain amplifiers attached so it's one of those "yes it's great but the price rules them out automatically. And even with all the deep pockets in Hong Kong and China - the dealership went out of business.

In general horns offer greater dynamic ease and impact than Audio Note speakers. I view Audio Note as more good at everything but not state of the art at anything. So they are a notch down from horns in terms of visceral impact and presence. The the AN's tend to be a lot more cohesive and have better bass for their size, and in general better midrange and treble but more polite than a very good horn. Even the Volti is rougher around the edges but when I have heard them they didn't have as good equipment running them.

Pure Audio is an open baffle design with a choice of tweeter. Easy to drive and has a panel sound quality to them but more bass and easy to drive. Certain Tannoy speakers will work but it depends on which model. And again the ones I refer to are the heritage series and they cost significantly more. I had the AN J for 13 years and I really struggled to come up with anything at the price that was as good. And when I finally moved on from them I bought the AN E.

Acapella blew me away but the ones I liked ere $55,000 (umm maybe when I am 60 I might be able to pull that off but by then I'll probably be too deaf to appreciate them).
 
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