Heathkit, Eico, Dynaco which ones ?

harleyrider

Super Member
I am looking into purchasing a nice tube amplifier (s) to run my Cornwalls II s. When looking around what is it it i need to be looking for as far as quality and something the will give that good warm sound with a descent amount of power . Im looking for around the 60 watt per channel range or 2 mono blocks 60 watts . In what oder would these three be rated as far as build quality and best sound quality ? I dont truly understand the differences in tubes , so what is it i should be looking for in the tubes ? Does certain tubes = different power ranges ? I am hoping to find something for under a grand , plug and play with nice cosmetics .

Thanks
 
The output tube types and circuit topology will define power ranges. 60 wpc is a lot so look at push-pull designs, not singled-ended which are lower powered.

Others will comment on their preferred tube types.
 
hi,
I have a pair of Cornwalls... and I have all those amps...no need for 60 watts per channel! that's overkill...I recommend, Heathkit W5M mono blocks, Eico HF-32 Mono blocks or a Dynaco St-70 with a Dyna Mutt mod...these all use slightly different configurations of output/driver tubes so the sound choice is subjective but you would be satisfied with any of them.
Cheers,
Kirk
 
According to the Klipsch site the cornwalls sensitivity is 102 dB @ 1 watt/meter. This will get loud with not much power at all. I suggest putting more emphasis on tonal balance, transient response etc, rather then the output power.

There are a few amps that have tube / output transformer combinations that have earned very good reputations. Most amps with the EL84/6BQ5 output tubes have very good reputations. These might be the Dynaco Stereo 35 power amp, SCA 35 integrated amp, several Eico and Scott amps, Sherwood and Stromberg Carlson. These will be in the 10 to 15 watts per channel power range but will sound very good. These can get those speakers of yours up to 109 dB peak output leaving you with a 3 dB buffer against clipping. That's pretty loud. For a little more power but still in the same tube family is the 7189 tube.

If you still need to rock out look for something with EL34 / 6CA7 outputs. These will tend to be in the 25 to 40 watts / channel range. They too sound pretty good but there seems to be a consensus (at least as I read this forum) that the EL84 types sound sweeter if they have enough power for your speakers. One note here - the Dynaco Stereo 70 is perhaps the most famous of these amps. In stock form it has some performance deficiencies that must be fixed to get the most from it. If you go that way in a stock unit, expect to need to modify it. Those can range from a few dollars (a mod that is not considered well among those on this forum - i know cause I am an advocate of it have have received some comment on it) to a few hundred for new power transformer and circuit board and power supply upgrades. In the same power output category is the 7581 or the 7868 output tubes. These include the Fisher 400 and Eico Stereo 70.

If you want even more power then you are looking at 6550 or KT88 outputs. There are lots of amps in this category as well. Among them the Dynaco Mark III and the Citation II and the McIntosh 275 among others. All have fine reputations. These are in the power output you mentioned.

There are other output tubes that are well respected however I am not familiar enough with them to comment on them here (so 6L6 etc lovers please excuse their absence).

This is just a short list. Understand that with any tube amp you need to make a choice, go vintage and sink some money into upgrades to make it more reliable, or go new and perhaps spending more then you might have expected. There is also the possibility of purchasing new from China, which has a mixed reputation for long term reliability on this forum.

The bottom line here is that you need to be happy with what you are hearing. You have very sensitive speakers that (I believe) could easily put any deficiencies in the amp on glaring display. A wrong choice could make the system tiring to listen to. A good choice will send you to sublime listening pleasure.

Good Luck

Shelly_D
 
Thanks everyone for the inputs and imfo . As far as overkill , well i just would like to have more power than not enough. I had a Sound Valve VTa 70i very clean and nice sounding amplifier i just wanted more volume ........So at 35 wpc i dont think ill be happy .

Shelly_ D thanks a lot for taking the time to explain the differences to me . Im not saying i understand it 100% but i gives a better way to look at things now . Ive been running a very strong SS set up with my spec gear 250wpc . No i dont use even half of it , it does sound good but im always thinking its missing that warmth -deep bass that im looking for . Im constantly adjusting the bass/reble and the eq trying to find that sweet spot . I just really think i need a good set of mono blocks that have already been upgraded perhaps to start out with.


Thanks again for the imfo everyone


Chris
 
If you still need to rock out look for something with EL34 / 6CA7 outputs. These will tend to be in the 25 to 40 watts / channel range.

...In the same power output category is the 7581 or the 7868 output tubes. These include the Fisher 400 and Eico Stereo 70.

7591, to save some confusion.

If you want even more power then you are looking at 6550 or KT88 outputs. There are lots of amps in this category as well. Among them the Dynaco Mark III and the Citation II and the McIntosh 275 among others. All have fine reputations. These are in the power output you mentioned.

Don't forget the Scott LK-150, not that there are many around. Scott also built some PPP monoblocks that go past PP 6550/KT88 territory.
 
If you want to keep it under $1k in plug-and-play condition, some of the listed options won't come in under that. For example, you'd be lucky to find a Harman Kardon Citation II unrestored unit for under $1k.

The way the used and vintage markets are right now, the higher power tube units (and over 35w/channel is relatively high power for a tube amp) go up disproportionately in price.
 
hey-Hey!!!,
There are a few issues with commercial/vintage monoblocks. They've all got minimalist power supplies and all run maximum possible voltage in search of power ratings. And then there is the circuits, for the most part mediocre and not worth the trouble of reproducing.

With $1k to spend, get a set of monoblocks like Dynaco Mk.iii, Eico HF50, or Heathkit W5m( with the 16458 output ), and re-power. Drop B+ to under 400V. take front end circuit from the RCA SP10/20 amp. No loop of NFB here, and no exotic tubes either.
cheers,
Douglas
 
Thanks everyone for the inputs and imfo . As far as overkill , well i just would like to have more power than not enough. I had a Sound Valve VTa 70i very clean and nice sounding amplifier i just wanted more volume ........So at 35 wpc i dont think ill be happy .

Shelly_ D thanks a lot for taking the time to explain the differences to me . Im not saying i understand it 100% but i gives a better way to look at things now . Ive been running a very strong SS set up with my spec gear 250wpc . No i dont use even half of it , it does sound good but im always thinking its missing that warmth -deep bass that im looking for . Im constantly adjusting the bass/reble and the eq trying to find that sweet spot . I just really think i need a good set of mono blocks that have already been upgraded perhaps to start out with.


Thanks again for the imfo everyone


Chris

Are you sure its the amp then? When I first started out in this hobby the first thing I learned is that your speakers have the largest effect on the sound you hear. I've since come to understand it is actually a combination of speakers and their interaction with the room that plays the big part. Perhaps there is something about the Cornwalls that just doesn't quite do it for you. No problem with that - I find I just can't listen to any horn loaded speakers for very long - I find them tiring. You might have some other sub audible dissatisfaction with them that you just haven't pinpointed yet. Think about it a bit cause at 35 Watts of power those speakers can peak out at about 114 dB and still have 3 dB head room. That's plenty loud for any home environment I would think. The average at that level would still be up at 104 dB, still very loud. I think you are not taxing the amps you are using in any way shape or form. That's why I bring up thinking about your speakers a little.

Good luck.

Shelly_D
 
I used an EICO HF-81 with mine... but...
FWIW, the best I ever heard my Cornwalls sound with my own personal ears was being driven by a Marantz 8B that had been judiciously rehabilitated with modest-quality parts. The McIntosh vintage tube power amplifiers are also highly regarded as power sources with Cornwalls (but I have never heard the combination myself).

EDIT: The Fisher 400/500/800 family sound good with Cornwalls, too.
 
Are you sure its the amp then? When I first started out in this hobby the first thing I learned is that your speakers have the largest effect on the sound you hear. I've since come to understand it is actually a combination of speakers and their interaction with the room that plays the big part. Perhaps there is something about the Cornwalls that just doesn't quite do it for you. No problem with that - I find I just can't listen to any horn loaded speakers for very long - I find them tiring. You might have some other sub audible dissatisfaction with them that you just haven't pinpointed yet. Think about it a bit cause at 35 Watts of power those speakers can peak out at about 114 dB and still have 3 dB head room. That's plenty loud for any home environment I would think. The average at that level would still be up at 104 dB, still very loud. I think you are not taxing the amps you are using in any way shape or form. That's why I bring up thinking about your speakers a little.

Good luck.

Shelly_D

Sorry about this , i forgot to mention when i had my Sound Valves Vta 70i 35wpc i was running Klipsch CF3s 100db sensitivity. Ya the Cornwall II s are 101 db sensitivity but i still believe with my past experience i wanted more power . I could make that past set up sound very sweet at just the right spot but as the night went on i was reaching for more volume . Then thats were adjustments came into play trying to make up for the lack of volume . I have always been the one who would rather have a bit more than just enough. So thats why im seeking something around the 60 watt range per channel . I may not use all but i know i have it if needed. I do like the Cornwalls i have , but i think they could do alot better on tubes than my currenty SS set up.

Thanks again to everyone
 
Bi-amp with some 40W KT88 amps. That will be 80W/channel. Might tax your $1k budget but if you're careful it won't be too bad to build.
cheers,
Douglas
 
Just ran across a Eico HF-89 all origianl ,seems to be a real sweet amplifier ? Any thoughts on this one . I have been looking around for a few hours today and there is alot to choose from as said before . I seem to lean twards the mono blocks , but this Eico HF-89 seems to be pretty impressive as well ?
 
I own 268 tube amps and all but three are vintage.Now before you call me crazy,I am including mono blocs as one amp and all receivers and int amps. For your application,you need nowhere near 60wpc.If you want one of the best sounding and most convenient amps ever made.Get a Sherwood S5000 with 7189/6BQ5. I am telling you it has a real 5 tube preamp in it with phono stage,and when you upgrade or rebuild them they are audiophile quality and then some..You don't have to mess with preamp cables as its already to go..I upgrade with paper in oil caps and new filter caps with more filtering but other than that,they don't need much to sound as pure and elegant as you would imagine.
 
Sorry about this , i forgot to mention when i had my Sound Valves Vta 70i 35wpc i was running Klipsch CF3s 100db sensitivity. Ya the Cornwall II s are 101 db sensitivity but i still believe with my past experience i wanted more power . I could make that past set up sound very sweet at just the right spot but as the night went on i was reaching for more volume . Then thats were adjustments came into play trying to make up for the lack of volume . I have always been the one who would rather have a bit more than just enough. So thats why im seeking something around the 60 watt range per channel . I may not use all but i know i have it if needed. I do like the Cornwalls i have , but i think they could do alot better on tubes than my currenty SS set up.

Thanks again to everyone

Save a little time and start with improving the midrange on your Cornwall II's first. My brother and I went through his CWII's and got a HUGE improvement in the sound quality, upper bass definition, far less fatigue, etc by getting rid of that original mid horn and driver and replacing with with an Altec 511B and 807-8D driver on each. Quantum leap forward in sound. And this was while running the CWII's with monoblock tube amps. This is the best money and effort you will spend. Can't recommend it enough.
 
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I run my Cornwall II's on a 40 WPC 6L6 amp and have never been able to get past 4 or 5 on the volume. I don't know what your room conditions are or if your just looking to "go to 11" but I doubt you will notice any difference between 40 and 60 WPC. Remember it takes approx. 10 times the wattage to double the volume.
 
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Before I sold them, I was running my CW II's off a Maggie 6V6 console amp, and the combo sounded great. Even with this small 10-15 WPC amp you're looking at over 107db without problems. How loud do you need? Personally I think the CW II's will start to shout at you over 107 db...:thumbsdn:

My Khorns are playing right now on a restored maggie 175, also a 6V6 amp, and I can literally shake the concrete walls with it.....:music:
 
Would there be any negative to me buying a descent set of Mark IIIs to run the Cornwall IIs ? Pros and Cons

I have also found a decsent tube stereo amplifier 50 wpc range (eico) Hf-89.

Would there be huge differences in these 2 set ups ?


As far as a pre for now ill have to run a SS , either my Spec1 or i have a Marantz 7T SS preamplifier setting in the closet doing nothing.
 
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