[Help...maybe crossover problem?] Jamo Studio 105

[newb]

The kit

I have a pair of Jamo Studio 105 speakers connected to my Sansui AU-607 Integrated Amplifier.

Jamo Studio 105
Frequency range : 60Hz-20,000Hz
Impedance : 4-8ohm
Short Term Power : 105W
Long Term Power : 50W

MADE IN DENMARK

Three woofers:
One 5cm, one 9cm and one 17cm

Sansui AU-607 (released 1976 yep that is old)
2 channel amplifier with 4 speaker wire ports
65W + 65W (65W per channel)
"When using 2 sets of speakers, please make sure that each pair does not exceed 8ohms"
20Hz-20Khz, 8ohms.

The problem

The speakers do have an impressive large 17cm cone however the speakers really lack bass. When I move my ear right up to the 17cm cone, I can hear that there is quite a lot of mid-high noises coming from there.

Now, I have a Panasonic HiFi with some speakers. The speakers have 2 separate pairs of wires, one for the treble and one for the bass. When I remove the treble, all I can hear is the "bwaa bwaa" of the bass.

So, how come this is not the same with the 17cm cone on the Jamo Studio 105s?

Example

Pop music on the HiFi with the treble unconnected = "bwaa bwaa" no chance of hearing lyrics

The same on the Jamos, going right up close to the 17cm cone, I can hear the tune and everything when I just want the lower end of the sound spectrum going there.

My guesses

Is there some underpowering problem with my amplifier? Or, is it just a simple matter that I have some bad speakers that are badly connected?


I'm guessing in the HiFi, the low noises are being directed to the bigger cone and the high noises to the small cone. This is being done in the HiFi box.

:scratch2:

From what I understand, my speakers lack a different set of wires for each cone and so I am just getting a mixed bonanza of sound through each cone?

Side note
I have a set of 3.1 3.5mm jack speakers (satelite + subwoofer) and those output a load more oomph of bass even though the subwoofer's speaker is tiny! Maybe something like 6cm!


I hope that you guys can help!

 

[newb]

Did I do something wrong? I've only got 27 views on this post...did I put this in the wrong place?

As far as I can see, this is to do with speakers...

Anyone with some input would be greatly appreciated. Even a comment such as "you're speakers are cr*p" would help as I'm into getting some new ones if these don't suffice. I've got no idea about these speakers and I've found nothing on the net.

Are my speakers just rubbish? Please could someone point towards something!

 

[MeatInStereo]

Make sure your cables are correctly connected....positive to positive, negative to negative first....also check the woofers in the speakers by unscrewing them and taking a peak and making sure you can tell if they are correct.

You can also use a 9 volt battery to test this and making sure the cones movement inward or outward is the same with the other speakers woofer using the same termianls.

If you hear voice in the woofers it could be the crossover. Some voice does creep into woofers but better crossover do not let this happen IMO.

I do use a crossover to seperate the frequencies.

Are your speakers on the ground...? if they are on stands you will get less bass. Try playing with their placement....move them closer to the wall...closer to corners....etc.

 

[Pyrrho]

The first things to do are to check the connections and check the controls. You say that you are getting sound from the woofers (the largest speaker on the Jamo speakers is a woofer, the medium sized one is a midrange speaker, and the smallest is a tweeter), so probably you have the speaker wires hooked up okay, but you might want to check polarity just to be sure you got it right (polarity has to do with keeping the "+" on the amplifier hooked up to the "+" on the speaker, and the "-" on the amplifier hooked up to the "-" on the speaker).

Given that you have sound, but not much bass, that suggests that they are hooked up, and that they do work (if the sound is really coming from the woofer and not the nearby midrange), so make sure your bass control on your amplifier is not turned down, which could cause the speaker to sound deficient in bass.

Now, you don't say what model of Panasonic you are comparing with, but it is not always the case that the larger speaker gives more or better bass. There are some amazing (and generally expensive) little speakers that put out much more bass that one would normally expect. Still, although your Jamo speakers are probably not great, they should be able to give you some bass.

Please look at and play with the controls a bit to see if that corrects your problem. Your problem is not a matter of not having enough power, though it could be a problem with either the amplifier or the speakers, so it would be good for you to try something else if you have another set of speakers or amplifier that you could hook up to test these speakers and amplifier, if playing with the bass control does not solve the problem.

Regardless, please report back so that we can know whether or not this helps, as more information might lead to other suggestions (and it is also good to know if one was helpful).

 

[MunkeyQ]

The Panasonics are bi-amped - one amplifier channel feeds the woofer with no crossover inside the cabinet since there's an active one before the amp in the hi-fi. Another channel feeds the midrange and tweeter, with a passive crossover in the cabinet and an active high-pass filter in the hi-fi. Disconnecting the treble wires will of course disable the mid and tweeter...but it's a bit different than most speakers. In those mini-systems, the midrange plays down very low and the woofer is more of a subwoofer as the low-pass filter is at about 300hz - a lot lower than a "normal" 3 way speaker. This allows for the amp to dump loads of power into it for more boom-boom bass, at the expense of having a rather nasty upper midbass hole.

In those Jamos, the crossover is completely passive and it's all inside the cabinet. It will be a more conventional design with a low pass filter on the woofer at about 800hz, which is why you're able to hear some vocals...nothing wrong with that. However, if it's made especially cheaply, there may be no crossover on the woofer at all - the woofer's voice coil inductance and cone mass prevents it from reproducing anything above about 2khz, which again explains why you can hear vocals.

Check the phase of the speakers, which might explain the lack of bass...red to red, black to black and so on. If that's all correct and you haven't turned the bass down, I'm afraid they just aren't great speakers - Jamo did do some half decent stuff, but IMO that doesn't look like it.

 

[newb]

Make sure your cables are correctly connected....positive to positive, negative to negative first....also check the woofers in the speakers by unscrewing them and taking a peak and making sure you can tell if they are correct.

You can also use a 9 volt battery to test this and making sure the cones movement inward or outward is the same with the other speakers woofer using the same termianls.

If you hear voice in the woofers it could be the crossover. Some voice does creep into woofers but better crossover do not let this happen IMO.

I do use a crossover to seperate the frequencies.

Are your speakers on the ground...? if they are on stands you will get less bass. Try playing with their placement....move them closer to the wall...closer to corners....etc.

The speaker covers are unfortunately non-removable and so I would have to cut the mesh which I'm not particularly wanting to do.

I had one of the speakers accidentally plugged in with the terminals mixed up but I've changed it and not noticed any change.


My speakers are on my desk right now and I don't have anywhere else to place them....I could place them on my inset windowsill but that would probably be extremely annoying for the neighbour as the glass used is very thin.

 

[newb]

Now, you don't say what model of Panasonic you are comparing with, but it is not always the case that the larger speaker gives more or better bass. There are some amazing (and generally expensive) little speakers that put out much more bass that one would normally expect. Still, although your Jamo speakers are probably not great, they should be able to give you some bass.

Please look at and play with the controls a bit to see if that corrects your problem. Your problem is not a matter of not having enough power, though it could be a problem with either the amplifier or the speakers, so it would be good for you to try something else if you have another set of speakers or amplifier that you could hook up to test these speakers and amplifier, if playing with the bass control does not solve the problem.

Regardless, please report back so that we can know whether or not this helps, as more information might lead to other suggestions (and it is also good to know if one was helpful).

As I mentioned earlier *doh* I had one speaker wired incorrectly although correcting it changed nothing.

My amp is set with the treble and bass both on -0.

I will get back to you once I get the chance to hook up another pair of speakers. I don't have a spare amp though

 

[newb]

Thank you all for taking your time to comment here! I appreciate it!

Check the phase of the speakers, which might explain the lack of bass...red to red, black to black and so on. If that's all correct and you haven't turned the bass down, I'm afraid they just aren't great speakers - Jamo did do some half decent stuff, but IMO that doesn't look like it.

Thanks for the detailed information. Now I understand things a bit more clearly.

It's just that I have a friend who recently purchased these speakers:

"Sony SSB1000 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker"

And I've heard them in person...they have far more bass than my Jamos even though my woofer is larger. I gather than size isn't everything but still I was a little disappointed.


Is it possible to modify my speakers so that only the low and mid-low frequencies are sent to my woofer?

Also, just a quick question, it is ok to hook up speakers of different resistance and power to the amp if they don't exceed specifications of the amp when I'm using them with the Jamos in unison right?



Thanks again for all the replies. I will report back when I've tested the stuff you've told me to check/do.

 

[Pyrrho]

Thank you all for taking your time to comment here! I appreciate it!



Thanks for the detailed information. Now I understand things a bit more clearly.

It's just that I have a friend who recently purchased these speakers:

"Sony SSB1000 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker"

And I've heard them in person...they have far more bass than my Jamos even though my woofer is larger. I gather than size isn't everything but still I was a little disappointed.

No, size is not everything. I have some speakers with 5 1/4" woofers that put out a remarkable amount of bass for their size. The quality and design of the drivers makes a huge difference in output. Basically, you can think of it as being like the diameter of a cylinder in an engine. The diameter does not tell you the displacement; the length of the stroke is also very relevant to its performance. Likewise, with a woofer, some can move much farther than others.

Is it possible to modify my speakers so that only the low and mid-low frequencies are sent to my woofer?

If you are not getting enough bass, try turning up the bass control on your amplifier. If you cannot get enough bass then, either something is not working properly, or you need better speakers. Some speakers are not very good, and I really do not know about yours.

Also, just a quick question, it is ok to hook up speakers of different resistance and power to the amp if they don't exceed specifications of the amp when I'm using them with the Jamos in unison right?



Thanks again for all the replies. I will report back when I've tested the stuff you've told me to check/do.

With speakers, it is called "impedance", not "resistance", because it varies depending upon what exact frequency we are talking about. The listing on the speaker is the "nominal impedance", which is a claim by the manufacturer that, looking at the impedance as a whole, overall it may be regarded as that. Some manufactures are more honest and better about getting that right than others.

Now, to your specific question, you can use different impedance speakers at the same time, though there is a good chance that you will not like the relative volume coming from each. When hooking up speakers of different impedance, do not hook up anything that will exceed the specifications of the amplifier. If it says, minimum 8 ohms when using two pair, each of them should be 8 ohms or higher. When a speaker manufacturer gives a range (like on your Jamo speakers), use the lower number for decisions on this if you want to be safe.

 

[Pyrrho]

...
Sansui AU-607 (released 1976 yep that is old)
2 channel amplifier with 4 speaker wire ports
65W + 65W (65W per channel)
"When using 2 sets of speakers, please make sure that each pair does not exceed 8ohms"
20Hz-20Khz, 8ohms.
...

You might want to look again at the information you have on the amplifier. I would guess that it really says something like, when using 2 sets of speakers, please make sure that each pair is not below 8 ohms.

 

[MunkeyQ]

Is it possible to modify my speakers so that only the low and mid-low frequencies are sent to my woofer?

Also, just a quick question, it is ok to hook up speakers of different resistance and power to the amp if they don't exceed specifications of the amp when I'm using them with the Jamos in unison right?

If there's no crossover on the woofer, adding one so only the lower frequencies go to it won't increase the amount of bass - it will only decrease the amount of high midrange coming from it.

Woofer size doesn't always determine the bass capabilities - it's mostly down to the cabinet. For example, a 15" woofer in one of Sansui or Kenwood's Kabuki-style offerings with a too-small sealed cabinet won't go as low as an 8" woofer in an IMF, which has a transmission line cabinet. Of course, as Pyrrho said, not all woofers are created equally...you'll get some poor 6" ones and some much better 6" ones. It's possible that the Sonys simply have a better designed and built cabinet and woofer.

 

[newb]

:scratch2:

I'm about to hit the sack but anyway;


I was wondering why the speakers have a low frequency rating of 60Hz then?
Listening to music at normal volumes won't give me a decent volume of 60Hz will it? (considering I have some not so good speakers).

:worried:

This leads me to ask why do the manufactures even bother telling you about the frequency specs? As my name suggests I am new to this audio gear/stuff and so I presume you guys just ignore those freq. specs ?



I currently have added more "boom" to my system by plugging in the active subwoofer from that 3.1 speaker set I was talking about. Strangely, the heaphone jack on the amp can be used in unison with the speakers.


Will I run into any load/power/whatever problems by doing this?


Thanks again!

 

[newb]

Now I'm really confused....

How come when I go round to the back of the speakers (where the holes are situated) I can hear a way load more bass?

My room is not the best in terms of acoustics but man...that was a huge difference.


Maybe I'm meant to put the speakers right up against the wall?

Or maybe it's just a bad enclousure/cabinet...

 

[voltcontrol]

Indeed, don't put them against the wall...

what happens when you move them a good bit forward?

 

[Pyrrho]

:scratch2:

I'm about to hit the sack but anyway;


I was wondering why the speakers have a low frequency rating of 60Hz then?
Listening to music at normal volumes won't give me a decent volume of 60Hz will it? (considering I have some not so good speakers).

:worried:

This leads me to ask why do the manufactures even bother telling you about the frequency specs? As my name suggests I am new to this audio gear/stuff and so I presume you guys just ignore those freq. specs ?

Since what you listed does not specify a tolerance range (which typically is expressed as +/- 3dB), the specified claim is virtually meaningless. The reason for a manufacturer to make a claim about them is for sales. They want you to buy it, whether it is good or not.

I currently have added more "boom" to my system by plugging in the active subwoofer from that 3.1 speaker set I was talking about. Strangely, the heaphone jack on the amp can be used in unison with the speakers.


Will I run into any load/power/whatever problems by doing this?


Thanks again!

There should be no problems doing that.

Normally, with an active (i.e., powered) subwoofer, you can hook it up to the speaker terminals without worrying about the impedance. This is because, with a powered subwoofer, the signal is first reduced to a level appropriate for an amplifier's input (it is reduced by resisters somewhere in the vicinity of 50k ohms, which, when put in parallel with any normal speaker, will have practically no effect on the impedance your main amplifier "sees"), and then the built-in amplifier re-amplifies it. I recommend that you hook it up to the speaker terminals, if for no other reason than that you will have a cleaner look to the front (this is assuming that the powered subwoofer has "high level" or speaker level inputs; if it does not, then absolutely do not do this!). You also can then use the headphone jack for headphones, if you wish.

If the powered subwoofer does not have speaker level inputs, doing it the way you are doing it is probably going to be your best option, unless your powered subwoofer has stereo inputs, and if your Sansui amplifier has preamp outputs and poweramp inputs, then there will be another way that would be better. If the Sansui lacks those outputs and imputs, or if the subwoofer does not have stereo inputs, then your current connection is going to be the best you can do without buying something more (which, instead of buying something to hook that up better, it would be better to just buy better speakers).


Now, regarding your speakers with the rear ports, they should not be up against a wall, because the port should not be blocked. You might want to play with placing them in different locations to see how much bass you are getting from them in different positions. While doing that, of course, you should have the subwoofer off so that you will be able to tell what the Jamo speakers are doing. If you can locate the owner's manual for your speakers, they probably give advice for room placement. Without it, you will be left to experiment. I would try them about a third of a meter from the wall behind them, and then about half a meter, a full meter, and whatever else you can manage to try, to find what seems to give you the best bass. Normally, putting a speaker near room boundaries increases the bass (i.e., near a wall behind and beside them), though you do not want them so close that you interfere with a rear port, and there are often other undesirable effects of putting speakers near room boundaries (like bad reflections off of the side walls). Experiment with them. Normally, you want the speakers to be such that the tweeters are at a height near ear level (when in your listening position, not when standing), and you normally want them to be at the points of an imaginary equilateral triangle, with your listening position at the third point, or something approximating that. And normally you want the speakers placed symmetrically in the room (i.e., equally close to side walls, etc.).

 

[Gaz]

The kit

I have a pair of Jamo Studio 105 speakers connected to my Sansui AU-607 Integrated Amplifier.

Jamo Studio 105
Frequency range : 60Hz-20,000Hz
Impedance : 4-8ohm
Short Term Power : 105W
Long Term Power : 50W

MADE IN DENMARK

Three woofers:
One 5cm, one 9cm and one 17cm

Sansui AU-607 (released 1976 yep that is old)
2 channel amplifier with 4 speaker wire ports
65W + 65W (65W per channel)
"When using 2 sets of speakers, please make sure that each pair does not exceed 8ohms"
20Hz-20Khz, 8ohms.

The problem

The speakers do have an impressive large 17cm cone however the speakers really lack bass. When I move my ear right up to the 17cm cone, I can hear that there is quite a lot of mid-high noises coming from there.

Now, I have a Panasonic HiFi with some speakers. The speakers have 2 separate pairs of wires, one for the treble and one for the bass. When I remove the treble, all I can hear is the "bwaa bwaa" of the bass.

So, how come this is not the same with the 17cm cone on the Jamo Studio 105s?

Example

Pop music on the HiFi with the treble unconnected = "bwaa bwaa" no chance of hearing lyrics

The same on the Jamos, going right up close to the 17cm cone, I can hear the tune and everything when I just want the lower end of the sound spectrum going there.

My guesses

Is there some underpowering problem with my amplifier? Or, is it just a simple matter that I have some bad speakers that are badly connected?


I'm guessing in the HiFi, the low noises are being directed to the bigger cone and the high noises to the small cone. This is being done in the HiFi box.

:scratch2:

From what I understand, my speakers lack a different set of wires for each cone and so I am just getting a mixed bonanza of sound through each cone?

Side note
I have a set of 3.1 3.5mm jack speakers (satelite + subwoofer) and those output a load more oomph of bass even though the subwoofer's speaker is tiny! Maybe something like 6cm!


I hope that you guys can help!

The Panasonic 4 wire system is a bi-amp system, and if it's the micro with the motorised bit around the volume & tone controls one am does the low and the other the high, I used to have a 4 unit technics mini stack dvd system with dolby surround, 2 wires were for the bass woofer and the other 2 for the 3 way.

Jamo studio 105... I recently got another pair of a certain auction site, working fine but showing their age more than my own 1991 pair I bought new, and yes they don't have very powerful bass compared with the wharfdale valdus 100 & 400 I use with my main music rig.

Jamo studio 105's are wired from the cable connector straight to the 17cm woofer terminals (soldered on) and then wires run off via filter caps and coils stuck to tweet + mid magnets, and the cabinets are not lined so they in many respects are like many major stereo system cabs like the ones with the old school philips, sony, aiwa or JVC midi systems with the record decks on top, but you mentioned Panasonic... with or without bi-amp Panasonic systems have a very strong bass response if it's made between 1987 and 2008, Sansui, like JVC, Philips, Kenwood, Sony, Pioneer won't match the bass response of the Panasonic so don't expect that performance, pushing an older amp too hard can blow the power amp chips if the bass is strong on the source material.

 

[Audiofreak71]

The Panasonic 4 wire system is a bi-amp system, and if it's the micro with the motorised bit around the volume & tone controls one am does the low and the other the high, I used to have a 4 unit technics mini stack dvd system with dolby surround, 2 wires were for the bass woofer and the other 2 for the 3 way.

Jamo studio 105... I recently got another pair of a certain auction site, working fine but showing their age more than my own 1991 pair I bought new, and yes they don't have very powerful bass compared with the wharfdale valdus 100 & 400 I use with my main music rig.

Jamo studio 105's are wired from the cable connector straight to the 17cm woofer terminals (soldered on) and then wires run off via filter caps and coils stuck to tweet + mid magnets, and the cabinets are not lined so they in many respects are like many major stereo system cabs like the ones with the old school philips, sony, aiwa or JVC midi systems with the record decks on top, but you mentioned Panasonic... with or without bi-amp Panasonic systems have a very strong bass response if it's made between 1987 and 2008, Sansui, like JVC, Philips, Kenwood, Sony, Pioneer won't match the bass response of the Panasonic so don't expect that performance, pushing an older amp too hard can blow the power amp chips if the bass is strong on the source material.

Welcome to AK . This thread is over 8yrs old and the op hasn’t been on this site since sept 10 so very likely he won’t see your response, however it is very informative so thanks for posting .

Audiofreak71