Help me to get closer to audio nirvana

[cvt01]

I recently started to build my system and I'm very happy with what I have so far on a tight budget but I'm ready to spend a little more.

My budget would be ~$1000 and the question is how would you spend this money to improve the following system:

Sources:
1) Raspberry Pie + Runeaudio software wired connection to a router
Music is stored on an external hard drive connected to the same router
USB connection to DAC #1, Optional Coax Connection to DAC #2

DAC:
1) Topping D30 External DAC
2) Yamaha A-S501 built in DAC

Amplifcation
1) Topping A30 Headphone AMP
2) Yamaha A-S501 Integrated AMP

Outputs:
1) AKG K7XX headphone
2) Pioneer Pioneer SP-FS52

So how would you spend $1000 to improve this system.

 

[Alobar]

Speakers! Can't get specific though, knowing nothing about your situation, music, room, listening levels and tastes. There are good modern speakers in that price range or if you prefer vintage you should be able to find a great pair in the $1k range. Always best to listen before you buy, but if you can't, read up as much as possible and be prepared to make changes, sell and buy something else, perhaps multiple times.

 

[Markoneswift]

You don't say what type of source file you have, OP. If you are using MP3, switch to FLAC.

Perhaps a better DAC may be in order. I don't know much about DACs but I'm sure someone else can help there

Does the A-S501 have dedicated sub out on it ? If so, I would look to upgrade the speakers and add a sub.

Hope this helps

 

[cvt01]

I have flac files and they sound great on the current system.
The amp do have a mono sub output yes. So the recommendation would be to add a good subwoofer.
I like 1960-70 music blues and rock.

 

[Nightwisher]

Purchase new speakers. That's where your $1000 should go. What specific speakers will depend on your specific preferences. Depending on the size of your new speakers, I agree that you may want to add a subwoofer but that could be a future upgrade. Though 60s and 70s Blues and Rock doesn't need much low frequency extension generally.

That Yamaha is a very nice core to your system already, so build the system around that. The DAC inside of that should compare favorably to many separate models.

 

[sKiZo]

Sounds like a really decent setup as is ...

- add a sub
- invest in some backup capability, external usb drive and software
- get a calibrated mike and a miniDSP to "tune the room" using REW free software and your laptop
- buy yourself a pizza
- send the rest of the money to me

PS ... surprised the Yamaha has a sub out but no center out. I'd read the book on that - maybe you can bridge the "B" speaker outs for that (L+R = center, sort of), and get a matching Andrew Jones center speaker. That can really add a lot of definition to the stage. DO the homework, as some amps can object strenuously to that sort of thing.

 

[ictwoody]

That Yamaha is a very nice core to your system already, so build the system around that. The DAC inside of that should compare favorably to many separate models.

I agree that the Yamaha is a great base to the system... but I am 99% sure it doesn't have a built in DAC. That is the big selling point of the A-S801, the built in DAC. You can look on Yamaha's pages and no where will you see the mention of a built in DAC. You'll see they market the digital inputs for hooking up a "tv or blu-ray player" and keeping it in the digital domain. I suppose this would mean there is some type of DAC in there... but I'm guessing it's not anything like a dedicated one for music.

I owed, until a few weeks ago, an A-S801 and loved it. Just got a trade offer and couldn't refuse. The DAC in it was really very good.

Because of that I would say I would spend $250 on a Schiit Audio Modi Multibit DAC and then look for some speakers with the balance. I have bought some incredible speakers for under $750 used.

I used my 801 with Tekton Pendragons and thought it was a great match. You could buy new M-Lores or Lore Refrence speakers for under $800. You could also consider a pair of Q-Acoustics 3050's. But I think I would probably take the Tektons.

- Woody

 

[nj pheonix]

+4 on Speakers

 

[Markoneswift]

The review for the A-S501 talks about using the digital inputs with a TV or bluray player to emphasise the fact it doesn't have a USB input on it for a computer / memory stick. I know a couple of people who run this amp and they are more than happy with the internal DAC performance. That's not to say it can't be bettered, but your money would likely be better spent in other areas of your system first.

 

[ictwoody]

The review for the A-S501 talks about using the digital inputs with a TV or bluray player to emphasise the fact it doesn't have a USB input on it for a computer / memory stick. I know a couple of people who run this amp and they are more than happy with the internal DAC performance. That's not to say it can't be bettered, but your money would likely be better spent in other areas of your system first.

I understand it has digital inputs and therefor must has SOME DAC... but its not a high end DAC. Compare the pages from Yamaha and you'll see what I mean. They don't even list the DAC chip for the 501 yet they pimp the hell out of the DAC in the 801. The 501 they sell it as a convenience feature to hook up your TV. It's likely not decoding high-res files as well as it could/should.

From the 501 page:



From the 801 page:



- Woody

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/amps/a-s501/
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/amps/a-s801/?mode=model

 

[BobHol]

I think you're getting close to a point where you'll need to spend even more money to get small improvements. Where do you think your current system is lacking? Have you heard a different system and said to yourself "I want my system to sound like that" ? A sub-woofer may or may not be what you want. As was already said there are not that many 60-70's recordings that have content for a sub.

 

[Braunbear66]

Speaker

I recently started to build my system and I'm very happy with what I have so far on a tight budget but I'm ready to spend a little more.

My budget would be ~$1000 and the question is how would you spend this money to improve the following system:

Sources:
1) Raspberry Pie + Runeaudio software wired connection to a router
Music is stored on an external hard drive connected to the same router
USB connection to DAC #1, Optional Coax Connection to DAC #2

DAC:
1) Topping D30 External DAC
2) Yamaha A-S501 built in DAC

Amplifcation
1) Topping A30 Headphone AMP
2) Yamaha A-S501 Integrated AMP

Outputs:
1) AKG K7XX headphone
2) Pioneer Pioneer SP-FS52

So how would you spend $1000 to improve this system.

So what kind of speakers are you going shopping for. A possible Bookshelf with possible stand -KEF S50- are really nice sounding for a $1000.00

 

[xero-D-hero]

On a budget...
I'd probably lose (eg: sell to recoup some $$$) the Topping D30 external DAC and instead add a HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro to that Raspberry Pi.
That DAC+ Pro would take over the DAC duties then just split the analog outs on that HiFiBerry to supply the A30 headphone amp & Yamaha integrated.

That is unless I'm missing something about how/why all that is currently set-up that way ???
It might also help to know what resolution FLAC files were talking about here too...

Then yeah spend the rest on better speakers and possibly a sub if needed/desired.
But as was said more info would be needed to give accurate/useful suggestions on that area.

JM2¢ ~ FWIW

Bret P.

 

[Braunbear66]

I original had my ears and heart on the KEF S50 they sound so good but very bright. I went a little cheaper speaker with a 5 star rating on my setup. I'm using a new NAD C386 Amp rated 80watt x 2 and purchased
The Dali Zensor 3's rated at 120 watts @ 8 ohm. I think there around $600 on Amazon. I also picked up a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut DC. TT. So when I move back to the US all this gear will work on 110-220 volt. I'm in Amsterdam now. So I got the speakers and the TT for around the same cost as the KEF S50''s. Ive had these Dali speakers for a month now and I'm amazed how big they sound. I ordered some speaker stands that will be coming next week, A good Amp now you just need to listen to lots of different speakers. You should see if there are dealers that have your same amp so you can test different speakers hooked to it. I was lucky over here in Amsterdam because they had the amp I purchased and the Yamaha s501 and s801 and the Marantz 6005 all set up in a listing area so I just kept coming back and made my choice. Like I said I really liked all of them but chose the NAD because it does both 110-220 volt and has the Apt x bluetooth and has a pre-out or Subwoofer out. All of these amps are in the $500-$1000 range and has similar features. running from 50 watts to 100 watts.
Matching speakers shouldn't be to difficult. Your listening preference is a person choice so you really need to hear different speakers and it should be hooked to what your using at home or something running as close to what you have. Keep us posted. You could get some really nice speakers and a nice DAC for around $1000.00

 

[Nightwisher]

I understand it has digital inputs and therefor must has SOME DAC... but its not a high end DAC. Compare the pages from Yamaha and you'll see what I mean. They don't even list the DAC chip for the 501 yet they pimp the hell out of the DAC in the 801. The 501 they sell it as a convenience feature to hook up your TV. It's likely not decoding high-res files as well as it could/should.

From the 501 page:

View attachment 878252

From the 801 page:

View attachment 878254

- Woody

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/amps/a-s501/
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/amps/a-s801/?mode=model

The manual for the 501 says it supports up to 24/192 and everything in between. The 701 and 301 support those as well.

I'll take a wild stab and say those have a Burr Brown DAC, which are featured in Yamaha's AVRs. Certainly not high end DACs, but solid performers.

 

[Braunbear66]

The manual for the 501 says it supports up to 24/192 and everything in between. The 701 and 301 support those as well.

I'll take a wild stab and say those have a Burr Brown DAC, which are featured in Yamaha's AVRs. Certainly not high end DACs, but solid performers.

My NAD amp as well as a built in DAC but it is not listed on the spec's. I use my portable AK-70 DAC or my Audirvana on my MacBook Air for playing my Flac and DSD music. I use a 3.5mm to RCA to my line in input's on my Amp. My amp's built in DAC will only work if I use the Toslink or Coaxial inputs. The Yamaha s501 & s801's have really good reviews especially there direct source feature that bypasses the tone controls. I was really going to get this amp but over here it is 220 volts only and would not work for me when I moved back to the US.

 

[cvt01]

You guys are fantastic, lots of food for thought! Thanks!

Let me reply to some of the points you brought up:
- The music I have are up to 192/24 flac right now.
- My understanding is that the yamaha 501 has a decent dac capable of decoding up to 192kHz/24bit. It lacks USB input though, that's why I got the Topping and also for the DSD support which I might get into later.
- I'm not sure that the Hifiberry would give me any improvement on the sound using the noisy power source sahred with the Raspberry...
- The only place I could find in my area to audition speakers was a Magnolia corner of a Bestbuy but all they had are crappy 7.1 and 11.2 AV receivers hooked up to some pretty expensive speakers. They made the 1250 dollar/piece Martin Logans sound terrible, so I can't trust what I hear there unfortunately.
- The Pioneers I have are floorstanding speakers and I like them so if I upgraded the speakers I would prefer floorstanding ones maybe 6.5" woofers I don't know...

Any specific recommendation on the calibrated mike and a miniDSP?

Woody, I looked at the Lore floorstanding version, do you know what is the size of the big woofer?

The KEF recommendation is also interesting, I could find recertified pair for $999 but on the same site there were these:
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...00-8-3-way-floorstanding-speaker-black/1.html

Any experience withthose q900's?

For some reason I feel like big size is more likely to provide to big sound LOL

 

[xero-D-hero]

- I'm not sure that the Hifiberry would give me any improvement on the sound using the noisy power source shared with the Raspberry...

The DAC+ Pro can be modded to allow for external PS for the analog side,though that's a DIY deal,but supposedly it's not that hard to do.
Also consider that with the current 2 seperate DACs you have twice as many chances for noise to creep into the signal chain(s) vs. just one.
Some folks just prefer to have the source & DAC as close to each other as possible and get the D>A conversion over & done & then use analog IC's to the preamp/amp.

For me it was more an idea to simplify the overall signal chain somewhat and reduce the number of D>A conversions and such.
But that leads to other questions,like is all this gear located in close proximity to each other -or- is it all spread out a bit ?

Might help us to really understand how all this is being used,pics may be an idea as well.

HTH

Bret P.

 

[ictwoody]

Woody, I looked at the Lore floorstanding version, do you know what is the size of the big woofer?

It depends what Lore you're talking about. Both the Mini-Lore and the Lore Ref use 8" woofers. The regular Lore uses a 10" woofer. But don't let driver size fool you. It's the way an extended-range driver sounds that is amazing. And no Tekton owner has ever said their speakers lacked bass. Even with M-Lore's I doubt you'd feel the need for a sub. They sound FAST, and they are super coherent since they are basically full-range speakers with super tweeters. They are addictive.

- Woody

 

[Braunbear66]

You guys are fantastic, lots of food for thought! Thanks!

Let me reply to some of the points you brought up:
- The music I have are up to 192/24 flac right now.
- My understanding is that the yamaha 501 has a decent dac capable of decoding up to 192kHz/24bit. It lacks USB input though, that's why I got the Topping and also for the DSD support which I might get into later.
- I'm not sure that the Hifiberry would give me any improvement on the sound using the noisy power source sahred with the Raspberry...
- The only place I could find in my area to audition speakers was a Magnolia corner of a Bestbuy but all they had are crappy 7.1 and 11.2 AV receivers hooked up to some pretty expensive speakers. They made the 1250 dollar/piece Martin Logans sound terrible, so I can't trust what I hear there unfortunately.
- The Pioneers I have are floorstanding speakers and I like them so if I upgraded the speakers I would prefer floorstanding ones maybe 6.5" woofers I don't know...

Any specific recommendation on the calibrated mike and a miniDSP?

Woody, I looked at the Lore floorstanding version, do you know what is the size of the big woofer?

The KEF recommendation is also interesting, I could find recertified pair for $999 but on the same site there were these:
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...00-8-3-way-floorstanding-speaker-black/1.html

Any experience withthose q900's?

For some reason I feel like big size is more likely to provide to big sound LOL

Yes those q900's are very nice sounding speakers. I auditioned them when I was in London a few weeks ago with a Cambridge c 60 and 80 amp. I used my Astell & Kern DAC so I could play my own music. I used Flac and DSD to test speakers. There nice and they have more higher end choice's when it comes to there speakers. I needed something smaller here in Amsterdam. I do have some really nice floor standing Vintage speakers. I purchased form a person on this forum from LA they belonged to his dad. rated at 300 watts. Roger Sound Lab's Elan. I did have to replace the 2-each rear facing passive radiator's. These things were built with Monster Cable. I hooked them to my vintage c620 Yamaha .I think it's only has 35 to 40 watts. Wow these large speakers sound so good. I do own another pair of vintage RSL speakers. The twitters were replace by Speaker City in Burbank CA. just before I maid the purchase on those. The Elan's sounded really really good. I could just imagine how they would sound with a Much more powerful amp in the future s801 lol. My wife hates these speakers because of the oak grain and how large they are. I will be putting these in My Garage/ Man cave. In the photo below I did move one of the Yamaha's and AR bookshelf speakers to the garage.