[HELP] NOISY PRO-JECT CARBON
- Thread starter MPB
- Start date
@trinhsman has it right, you need the rubber/Sorbathane grommets on the two holes in the motor. Its plainly obvious from your one photo they are needed to stop the motor flange from vibration on the housing its mounted to.
Nashou
Nashou
Also in looking at the motor picture it looks like the little tabs that hold the motor together have been raised a bit . I will have to compare this to my turntable when I get home . However if those tabs have been loosened her "they definitely would cause a slight vibration . Won't be home for a couple of days but when I get there I'll take a look .@trinhsman has it right, you need the rubber/Sorbathane grommets on the two holes in the motor. Its plainly obvious from your one photo they are needed to stop the motor flange from vibration on the housing its mounted to.
Nashou
OP at this point your soured by the whole experience of a friend dumping a Project table on you that he was also experiencing highly noticeable motor noise. Best way out is donate it to the Salvation Army and get a tax write off for what you payed the friend. My guess it will be tagged for $19.99, sold as is, and priced right for when it was brand new.
JesusGreen
Member
As others have said, you're missing some stick sorbothane or rubber grommets on the two holes on the motor where the screws previously were. Put the screws back in afterwards. They should not be removed on the Carbon tables, only on the older Debut line, or you'll actually probably make the noise worse.
With the screws in, there will be some vibration transfer/noise, with them out it will be louder - but with the screws in but with some rubber grommets in place, the noise should disappear/be minimal.
Another thing to look at is your cartridge. I think you have the Xpression Carbon or something rather than the Debut Carbon? I can't tell for sure, and I'm not sure what cartridge it comes with, but if it's the 2M Red like the Debut Carbon, that only accentuates the motor noise. With the 2M Red on my Debut Carbon, every single quiet passage sounded like loud cogs turning, there was so much rumble from the motor it was unbearable.
I intended to add rubber grommets to fix the issue, but I ended up replacing my cartridge with a Grado Black1 before I did that, and now I have no reason to mess around with it any further. I can still hear the motor when I'm close to the turntable - but the cartridge doesn't pick up the motor noise at all, and quiet passages are now basically silent. So without any adjustments to the turntable itself, just a cartridge switch, I'm not hearing any motor noise in playback.
With the screws in, there will be some vibration transfer/noise, with them out it will be louder - but with the screws in but with some rubber grommets in place, the noise should disappear/be minimal.
Another thing to look at is your cartridge. I think you have the Xpression Carbon or something rather than the Debut Carbon? I can't tell for sure, and I'm not sure what cartridge it comes with, but if it's the 2M Red like the Debut Carbon, that only accentuates the motor noise. With the 2M Red on my Debut Carbon, every single quiet passage sounded like loud cogs turning, there was so much rumble from the motor it was unbearable.
I intended to add rubber grommets to fix the issue, but I ended up replacing my cartridge with a Grado Black1 before I did that, and now I have no reason to mess around with it any further. I can still hear the motor when I'm close to the turntable - but the cartridge doesn't pick up the motor noise at all, and quiet passages are now basically silent. So without any adjustments to the turntable itself, just a cartridge switch, I'm not hearing any motor noise in playback.
OK, here goes. I got home and took a look at my motor. I added dynamat to the top of the motor, and you can see the sorbethane grommets and screws pushing the grommets down a bit. My table is dead silent. Not sure if this picture will help you or not, but this is what works on my table.
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
Interesting.
The "stock" Debut instructions clearly indicate that the two screws are transportation screws and should be removed when the tt is "installed".
The "Carbon" instructions refer to "motor brackets with Sorbothane pads" and make no mention of the screws. I.e., there is no instruction to remove them.
Manuals at https://www.vinylengine.com/library/pro-ject/debut.shtml in case the OP doesn't have them.
The "stock" Debut instructions clearly indicate that the two screws are transportation screws and should be removed when the tt is "installed".
The "Carbon" instructions refer to "motor brackets with Sorbothane pads" and make no mention of the screws. I.e., there is no instruction to remove them.
Manuals at https://www.vinylengine.com/library/pro-ject/debut.shtml in case the OP doesn't have them.
The picture I posted is of my Debut III motor, upgraded with sorbethane grommets and dynamat. My dealer has heard my table and told me what I did really improved things. IMHO.
redcoates7
still learning...
MPB- you're discovering first hand the wonder of the Internet.
Pro-Ject is the largest non-Chinese manufacturer of turntables in the world (by at least an order of magnitude) and yes, sometimes there are motors with unrepairable internal noise. There are many tens of thousands of these Debut models out there, and the vast majority of owners love them...the ones who've had trouble are very vocal though, and make sure to smear their opinion over every thread and online review which tends to amplify the perceived problem.
...just hang out on AK for a year or so and wait...you'll see the same guys posting four and five times on the same thread about what a POS a given item is. It's the nature of the Internet I suppose, but not super helpful to the OP who's trying to diagnose and repair a problem.
Sooo, back to you.
Without any way to hear it, I have no idea what your motor sounds like, or how severe the issue is. my guess is that reinstalling the sorbothane grommets will help, but if it doesn't you should consider buying a new motor. The easiest way to know? Simply disconnect the drive belt from the motor and turn it on...if it's noisy just sitting there running, there's an internal fault, and it will have to be replaced.
A couple other things to check- how's the belt tension? Is it a correct sized belt? This isn't common, but if a too-small or too thick belt is used, it can load down the motor (basically twisting the armature inside the motor itself) which can cause a lot of noise. Again, not common, but something to check out.
Whatever you decide or discover, I wish you the best of luck. Please keep us posted
Pro-Ject is the largest non-Chinese manufacturer of turntables in the world (by at least an order of magnitude) and yes, sometimes there are motors with unrepairable internal noise. There are many tens of thousands of these Debut models out there, and the vast majority of owners love them...the ones who've had trouble are very vocal though, and make sure to smear their opinion over every thread and online review which tends to amplify the perceived problem.
...just hang out on AK for a year or so and wait...you'll see the same guys posting four and five times on the same thread about what a POS a given item is. It's the nature of the Internet I suppose, but not super helpful to the OP who's trying to diagnose and repair a problem.
Sooo, back to you.
Without any way to hear it, I have no idea what your motor sounds like, or how severe the issue is. my guess is that reinstalling the sorbothane grommets will help, but if it doesn't you should consider buying a new motor. The easiest way to know? Simply disconnect the drive belt from the motor and turn it on...if it's noisy just sitting there running, there's an internal fault, and it will have to be replaced.
A couple other things to check- how's the belt tension? Is it a correct sized belt? This isn't common, but if a too-small or too thick belt is used, it can load down the motor (basically twisting the armature inside the motor itself) which can cause a lot of noise. Again, not common, but something to check out.
Whatever you decide or discover, I wish you the best of luck. Please keep us posted
redcoates7
still learning...
You're absolutely right- the screws and sorbothane pads are designed to be left in place. In some cases, removing them can reduce or completely eliminate some vibration, but it's not a great idea in my experience
And there is an upgrade kit available for Debut models (and others) that replaces the transit screws along with rubber gromits (plus a new pulley and drive belt).
http://www.analogueseduction.net/project-upgrades-parts-accessories/pro-ject-se-upgrade-kit.html
Yes, but I believe the pulley on that upgrade kit is for the European market. The old 50hz or 60hz thing. Just make sure it is compatible with your turntable.
Good point! Interesting, though, that an upgrade (though I don't know that it is from Pro-Ject itself rather than Analogue Seduction) is putting back in what the manual said to take out. Pro-Ject's FAQ page has some information in it that doesn't exactly inspire confidence in their parts and design, saying that each motor is different, and that some might work best with the transit screws removed while others don't--just do trial and error til it sounds its best!
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?info=faq#a14
I should add, though, that every Pro-Ject turntable I've heard has sounded great. It's possible, though, that that's because every Pro-Ject I've heard was set up by local dealers, who presumably are familiar with the issues and did the necessary adjustments prior to sending a turntable home with a customer.
Mine was set up by the dealer first. Then I did my mods to it. Dealer says it will hang with any turntable under 1500 dollars. I kind of agree. Even against my reference (Music Hall 9.1 with motor upgrade and Ortofon 2M Black cartridge) it doesn't embarrass itself.
After trying a few things it is clear the noise is coming from the motor itself, not anything it is vibrating against. Could that still mean it is the grommets? I have completely removed the belt and platter and it still whines and grinds its way through it. Sometimes it is louder than other times it is the strangest thing. Recently, I turn it on to test the noises and it spins backwards, I can reset and send it the proper way by powering on/off but it can take a few times. I'll try and upload a video of the noises to youtube and post a link in here. As always, thank you all for your help, any input is welcome!
MPB
MPB
If i need to put those screws in there along with grommets.. does anyone know what size screw it takes because they are not in my possession. Also, the noises appear to be coming from the actual part that spins and not from any vibrations on the TT itself which seems to be what is implied above.
You can go to just about any audio site under the sun that deals with turntables and you will read the tales off noisy Projects. Even the cheap Hanpin built belt drive tables aren't this bad, another lemon fell from the Project tree. Don't waste any more money on this loser, send it to the curb. As for a dealer setting it up to run right a local dealer has given up on Project, 9 out of 10 tables were returned by customers due to excessive noise.
That is possibly the worst motor noise I have heard from a table, so sorry that you received a bad seed like that and wherever you got that from knew it had that problem, no mistaking that. Just chock this up as a lesson learned and move on to something better. I went through the same thing with a project debut carbon esprit sb, it was a complete pos and my faith in that model is zero, I can't speak for the others made by project hopefully there much better.
Audiofreak71
Audiofreak71
