Help restoring a Yamaha CA-600

Discussion in 'Yamaha' started by EmuMannen, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. EmuMannen

    EmuMannen Member

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    52
    Second up, the filter card. Here we got some caps and transistors. As I read the service manual the ones marked 58 A763 WL4B correspond to Tr504 and Tr503 in the schematics. The ones marked 5J1 correspond to Tr502 and Tr501. The caps, C509 and C510 in the schematics, are marked H7536L and 100µF 6.3V. I plan to replace the caps but what about the transistors, keep them? Any suggestion for replacement parts?

    IMG_1923.JPG IMG_1924.JPG FullSizeRender (8).jpg FullSizeRender (9).jpg FullSizeRender (10).jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  2. zaibatsu

    zaibatsu Active Member

    Messages:
    446
    To my knowledge the only transistors you need to worry about in this model are those 458LGs (use the replacement avionic suggested, 1815).
    • It's good practice to replace any 6.3V and 10V electrolytics with higher voltage rated versions (20V+)
    • Anything modern from a good brand (eg. Nichicon / United Chemicon / Panasonic etc) will be fine. I find Nichicon KZ is good for signal path decoupling if the right value is offered - you can use the 100uF 25V KZs for the example you gave, and for power supply areas Nichicon PW, HE or Pansonic FC etc are good and have a higher 105* temp rating. If there's anything bipolar, use Nichicon ES. For some larger value caps, United Chemicon offers some good options at better prices and equal quality. You can use film caps for smaller values (eg. <5uF) if desired, just check fit.
    • Most people use higher capacitance values for the main filter caps (the 4700uF) in these smaller amps and find noticeable benefits, +20% is completely safe and within factory specs so I'd recommend that, though some people go a bit higher too. Make sure you check the dimensions to make sure the new ones will fit neatly. UCC will probably be a good choice here.
    • It's probably not necessary but if I've got individual boards removed I usually retouch the solder joints with some fresh solder just to cut the chance of bad joints in the future. It's so easy to do once you've got the boards out. Your call depending on time constraints.
     
  3. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    Look at the other side of the transistor. 5J1 is printed on the backside. 5J1 is and irrelevent lot code or something along that order.
     
  4. EmuMannen

    EmuMannen Member

    Messages:
    52
    Printed on the backside is: C1345, thanks :)

    And thanks zaibatsu for your advices, I will start to put together a BOM for the replacement/upgrade parts...
     
  5. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    (2S)C1345:thumbsup:
     
  6. EmuMannen

    EmuMannen Member

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    Question about the Electrolytic Capacitor Board, any suggestion for replacement of the original 4700µF 50V caps (C802 and C803)? 35 mm diameter, 62 mm height. And what about those terminals, looks like four of them but I guess the extra two is just to fixate it to the board, right? It's about 22 mm between the terminals with an offset of about 5 mm from the center for the ones I guess is just holding it in place.

    Not much else on this board. A 5-B2 diode bridge (D801) and a ceramic capacitor (C801) of 0.01µF 500WV (according to the BOM)...

    IMG_1933.JPG IMG_1934.JPG
     
  7. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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  8. EmuMannen

    EmuMannen Member

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    Whoa! Thanks avionic! I already searched Farnell and RS but I browsed by this one since the photo at Farnell shows it with only three legs.

    Digi-Key state:
    Lead Spacing = 0.787" (20.00mm),
    Size / Dimension = 1.181" Dia (30.00mm)
    Height - Seated (Max) = 1.772" (45.00mm)

    But that is not what I get from the 051/053 PEC-PW (MAL2051,53) Series Datasheet, it states a 30 x 40 housing with lead spacing of 17.5 mm and 15 mm for the 4700µF 63V, am I reading it right?
     
  9. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    Any way you go your probably going to have to get creative when it comes to the solder pins.
     
  10. zaibatsu

    zaibatsu Active Member

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    446
    I'd definitely keep things open for getting creative with the leads (and probably just using regular 2-pin ones), you'll be able to choose from better quality capacitors. Make sure you check out the ripple current spec and try to maximise that value on whatever you choose. It only has to fit neatly in the amp, doesn't have to be the same size as factory.

    You can see what Bratwurst7s does with his PSU caps for some ideas:
    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ax-500-thread.749463/page-2#post-10825226

    I'd also look over these restoration threads (CA-810 and CA-2010) for some general ideas / info:
    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/started-restoration-on-my-ca-810.771028/
    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/yamaha-ca-2010-possible-restoration.748960/
     
  11. Bratwurst7s

    Bratwurst7s In The Frying Pan Subscriber

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    With the Vishay filter cap that Avionic linked I think that you are going to have an easy fit. The new cap has 20mm lead tab spacing and your old one 22mm. Just take some duckbill pliers or such and carefully bend the entire tab slightly towards the outside of the cap, with the bend as close to the base of the cap as possible. Then just bend the narrow part of the tab back to straight down. Basicly just the opposite of what I did here...
    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ax-700.645067/page-9#post-10265169

    It should be pretty easy to get a drop in fit.

    Cheers,
    James

    edit: OK. I see now that there is a discrepancy between that is shown on the Digi-Key page and the data sheet. But if the pins are long enough the bending trick should still work. If not then a leg extention and o-ring spacer should do the trick.

    edit 2: Ok. I suppose that it helps to read a post completely before posting. With 3 legs no amount of bending will work I suppose. See below.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  12. Bratwurst7s

    Bratwurst7s In The Frying Pan Subscriber

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  13. EmuMannen

    EmuMannen Member

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    52
    First of all thanks everyone who taken the time to respond this far. I had to put this project on a back burner so I just cleaned it up and put it together again. Listening for the faint hum revealed some white noise in the right channel too so I then knew that I had more problems than a couple of caps in the PSU. I am now taking the opportunity to pick it up again when I got some free time over the holidays.

    I managed to get the main amp boards apart. It was really easy, just loosen the two screws holding the board and then the four screws holding Tr613 and Tr615. The transistors sit in holders soldered to the board and came apart as son as I loosen the screws. This board has a C458 as Tr607 I will replace them. It also got some electrolytics:

    C609: 50V 47µF CHEMI-CON (looks non-polarized)
    C601: 50V 1µF 85ºC nichicon
    C615: 35V 220µF 85ºC nichicon
    C611: 50V 100µF 85ºC nichicon
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  14. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    [​IMG]
    That blue tantalum cap in the forfront. Replace with either electrolytic or film cap. There are at least two of them on that board.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  15. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    When one of those tants on the filter board decide to shit the bed they will load down the power supply for both channels and create some real bad pops.Real bad !
    Dodog had his CA-600 here a while back.Doing just that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  16. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    I managed to blow up a pair of the Tants on the phono board replacing some noisy transistors. Replaced all with elyticaps.
     
  17. EmuMannen

    EmuMannen Member

    Messages:
    52
    Gone through all boards for caps and transistors, this is my current BOM:

    Filter Board
    ============
    C509 & C510 (100µF, 6.3V, D8, P4); Mouser No: 647-UFG1E101MPM, UFG1E101MPM (100µF, 25V, D8, L11.5, P3.5)

    Tone Control Board
    ==================
    C305 & C306 (100µF, 10V, D8, P4); Mouser No: 647-UFG1E101MPM, UFG1E101MPM (100µF, 25V, D8, L11.5, P3.5)
    C307 & C308 (10µF, 35V, D6, P4); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H100MDM, UFG1H100MDM (10µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)

    Function Board
    ==============
    C411 & C412 (47µF, 35V, D10, P6); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H470MPM, UFG1H470MPM (47µF, 50V, D12.5, L11.5, P3.5)

    Power Board (NA06399)
    =====================
    C701 (220µF, 25V, D13, P5); Mouser No: 647-UFG1V221MPM, UFG1V221MPM (220µF, 35V, D10, L20, P5)
    C704 & C705 (100µF, 80V, D16, P7.5); Mouser No: 647-UFG2A101MHM, UFG2A101MHM (100µF, 100V, D12.5, L20, P5)
    C706 (47µF, 16V, D10, P4); Mouser No: 647-UFG1V470MPM, UFG1V470MPM (47µF, 35V, D8, L11.5, P3.5)
    C707 (100µF, 50V, D13, P5); Mouser No: 647-UFG1J101MPM, UFG1J101MPM (100µF, 63V, D10, L20, P5)
    C709 (1µF, 50V, D5, P3.5); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H010MDM, UFG1H010MDM (1µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C710 (1µF, 50V, D5, P3.5); Mouser No: 647-UES1H010MDM, UES1H010MDM (1µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C711 (100µF, 6.3V, D10, P4); Mouser No: 647-UES1E101MPM, UES1E101MPM (100µF, 25V, D10, L16, P5)

    Electrolytic Capacitor Board
    ============================
    C802 & C803 (4700µF, 50V, D35, L62, P20); Mouser No: 647-UKW1J472MRD, UKW1J472MRD (4700µF, 63V, D22, L50, P10)

    Main Amp Board x 2
    ==================
    Tr607 (C458); Mouser No: 512-KSC1815YTA, KSC1815YTA (50V, 80MHz, 400mW, 150mA, 120hFE)
    C601 (1µF, 50V, D5, P4); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H010MDM, UFG1H010MDM (220µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C609 (47µF, 50V, D13, P6); Mouser No: 647-UES1H470MPM, UES1H470MPM (47µF, 50V, D10, L20, P5)
    C611 (100µF, 50V, D13, P6); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H101MPM, UFG1H101MPM (100µF, 50V, D10, L16, P5)
    C615 (220µF, 35V, D13, P6); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H221MHM, UFG1H221MHM (220µF, 50V, D12.5, L20, P5)
     
  18. EmuMannen

    EmuMannen Member

    Messages:
    52
    Thanks for the heads up. There are actually four on the Filter Board, all 1uF 35V. Is it a general recommendation to replace all tantalum caps or just the blue ones on that card? I got another six on the Tone Control Board (33uF 10V, 1uF 35V and 3.3uF 35V) and seven on the Function Board (10uF 10V, 4.7uF 16V, 1uF 35V and 4.7uF 35V). All blue tantalums...
     
  19. EmuMannen

    EmuMannen Member

    Messages:
    52
    It will be hard to fit film caps instead of the tantalums. Is it really OK to replace them with electrolytics?

    Look at this finding on the Tone Control Board, doesn't look too good:
    IMG_2298.JPG

    I assume these ones on the Function Board are 4.7uF but what about the (M) marking? It is also two 50V on that board where the service manual state one 16V and another 35V...
    IMG_2299.JPG
     
  20. EmuMannen

    EmuMannen Member

    Messages:
    52
    This is what my BOM looks like right now if I would replace all tantalum with electrolytic:

    Filter Board
    ============
    C505 & C506 (1µF, 35V, P3, tant); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H010MDM, UFG1H010MDM (1µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C509 & C510 (100µF, 6.3V, D8, P4); Mouser No: 647-UFG1E101MPM, UFG1E101MPM (100µF, 25V, D8, L11.5, P3.5)
    C511 & C512 (1µF, 35V, P3, tant); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H010MDM, UFG1H010MDM (1µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)

    Tone Control Board
    ==================
    C302 & C305* (1µF, 35V, P3, tant); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H010MDM, UFG1H010MDM (1µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C305* & C306 (100µF, 10V, D8, P4); Mouser No: 647-UFG1E101MPM, UFG1E101MPM (100µF, 25V, D8, L11.5, P3.5)
    C307 & C308 (10µF, 35V, D6, P4); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H100MDM, UFG1H100MDM (10µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C309 & C310 (3.3µF, 35V, P3, tant); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H3R3MDM, UFG1H3R3MDM (3.3µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C311 & C312 (33µF, 10V, P4, tant); Mouser No: 647-UFG1E330MEM, UFG1E330MEM (33µF, 25V, D6.3, L11, P2.5)

    Function Board
    ==============
    C401 & C402 (10µF, 10V, P3.5, tant); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H100MDM, UFG1H100MDM (10µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C411 & C412 (47µF, 35V, D10, P6); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H470MPM, UFG1H470MPM (47µF, 50V, D12.5, L11.5, P3.5)
    C416 & C417 (4.7µF, 50V, P3, tant); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H4R7MDM, UFG1H4R7MDM (4.7µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C421 & C422 (1µF, 35V, P3, tant); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H010MDM, UFG1H010MDM (1µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C425 & C426 (10µF, 10V, P3.5, tant); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H100MDM, UFG1H100MDM (10µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)

    Power Board (NA06399)
    =====================
    C701 (220µF, 25V, D13, P5); Mouser No: 647-UFG1V221MPM, UFG1V221MPM (220µF, 35V, D10, L20, P5)
    C704 & C705 (100µF, 80V, D16, P7.5); Mouser No: 647-UFG2A101MHM, UFG2A101MHM (100µF, 100V, D12.5, L20, P5)
    C706 (47µF, 16V, D10, P4); Mouser No: 647-UFG1V470MPM, UFG1V470MPM (47µF, 35V, D8, L11.5, P3.5)
    C707 (100µF, 50V, D13, P5); Mouser No: 647-UFG1J101MPM, UFG1J101MPM (100µF, 63V, D10, L20, P5)
    C709 (1µF, 50V, D5, P3.5); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H010MDM, UFG1H010MDM (1µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C710 (1µF, 50V, D5, P3.5); Mouser No: 647-UES1H010MDM, UES1H010MDM (1µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C711 (100µF, 6.3V, D10, P4); Mouser No: 647-UES1E101MPM, UES1E101MPM (100µF, 25V, D10, L16, P5)

    Electrolytic Capacitor Board
    ============================
    C802 & C803 (4700µF, 50V, D35, L62, P20); Mouser No: 647-UKW1J472MRD, UKW1J472MRD (4700µF, 63V, D22, L50, P10)

    Main Amp Board x 2
    ==================
    Tr607 (C458); Mouser No: 512-KSC1815YTA, KSC1815YTA (50V, 80MHz, 400mW, 150mA, 120hFE)
    C601 (1µF, 50V, D5, P4); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H010MDM, UFG1H010MDM (220µF, 50V, D5, L11, P2)
    C609 (47µF, 50V, D13, P6); Mouser No: 647-UES1H470MPM, UES1H470MPM (47µF, 50V, D10, L20, P5)
    C611 (100µF, 50V, D13, P6); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H101MPM, UFG1H101MPM (100µF, 50V, D10, L16, P5)
    C615 (220µF, 35V, D13, P6); Mouser No: 647-UFG1H221MHM, UFG1H221MHM (220µF, 50V, D12.5, L20, P5)


    *Note that the schematics of the Tone Control Board in the service manual got two instances of C305, one electrolytic paired with C306 and one tantalum paired with C302.

    Ps. I went with the Nichicon UFG-series instead of KZ because I had a hard time finding sizes that would fit from the KZ-series. I think all the ones I picked from the UFG-series will fit the boards (the ones on the Electrolytic Capacitor Board are from the UKW-series and might need some custom mounting and support). The non-polarized are from the UES-series.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017

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