(here we go)....RSII refurb

I'm sure you guys will figure it out pretty quickly. Wish I was there to help. Did you swap the fuses, even if they look ok?
 
from the positive post to the fuse (have you checked that?)

Dude, that's why I don't work on my own gear.......or anyone else's for that matter.

That was it. :twak: :stupid:

Evan, cancel that distress call. Please check your dip-shit detector and reset. Repeat, reset your dumb-ass alarm. Thank you.

Something interesting regarding the fuse.......the boards you shipped had fuses with a tiny little curly wire and mine have thick, flat wire. I initially pulled the fuse from the right woofer board and stuck it in, still no EMIT. I pulled the fuse from the left mid/tweet board and stuck it in the the right mid/tweet board. EMITs worked. Putting the woofer board fuse in the left mid/tweet board worked as well. :dunno:

However, as we've already established, I have no idea what the hell I'm doing. As far as I'm concerned it all works so I don't give a hoot.

First impressions; They're a hell of a lot louder! I'm thinking that's a symptom of the bi-amp. The mids and tweets are no longer competing for the same juice the demanding woofs are pulling. Everything is uber clear but I'm still in the listening infancy stage. I can already tell I'm going to have to do some level matching. There is much to tweak but it's all good so far.

Things to do yet; Build a mid/tweet box. They're just resting on bricks upside-down right now. It works, but it dosen't look pretty (certainly not like Maximillion's). The rear spike needs a new rest. The flimsy stock posts on the rear of the woof cabinet just ain't gettin it. And of course, I have to fabricate some grills.

The pics are ugly, but the room is also part of this project. New rack, furniture and positioning are all in order.

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That was it. :twak: :stupid:

woohoo! i had a feeling once i thought of that.

the clean- and clear-ness is definitely the new caps for the most part. there will probably be a little more depth now to the soundstaging. there may also be a short burn-in period, though i'm of the belief that some of this is always the listener's ear getting used to the changes. keep updating us on the results, especially since i'm currently redoing my new IMF's with the same basic new parts and i've never heard the ClarityCaps yet.

level-matching the woofers to the top end isn't unexpected, and you can do it by ear pretty accurately - try using some music that has a walking bass line to get the transition down smooth.
 
Awesome dude! I was out of town this last weekend visiting my grandmother in the hospital. I gotta come by and hear them sometime. Glad I didn't botch the woofer wiring LOL!
 
Level matching issue

The mids & tweets are much higher than the woofs. Even with the attenuators turned down to min they're up anywhere from 6-10db (on a RS meter @ 70hz C slow). I don't have the best knowledge of how to match levels, nor the best equipment or resources, but from playing a test tone from the S&V home theater setup disc through stereo those are the readings I get when shutting off the woof amp vs the mid/tweet amp.

Thoughts? Is my method wrong? The mids and highs are very nice but very present. Some slam is present but lingering in the background. That may be becuase I really haven't cranked it past past 9 o'clock due to the mids being right there. I'm also using a HSU tube sub XO'd @ 60hz, so the lows are definately there. It just seems that some of the mid bass is reticent.

The only attenuation I have available is the mid & tweet controls on the RSII boards. The amps I'm using don't have controls. A question of burn in on new caps? They have very little time on them. I dunno. I'm grasping.
 
if you are biamping, I would think you would want an electronic crossover, and you could control gain high and low with that.

also, do find the proper rated fuse for the emit, it is probably an amp or so, I expect the woofer fuse is three or four times that, or more.
 
the woofers don't have fuses.

which amps are you using again? there are two possible things going on. one, the amp on top may be more sensitive. two, the balance may have been thrown off when we made them biampable. if you can, try switching the two amps and see if the balance improves. otherwise, you will want to get at least one new amp that does have attenuators (or get a passive attenuator to put inline with the top amp).
 
Well hell is I know what's going on....

I've switched amps. According to my ear the mid-bass and lower mids filled in nicely and the whole presentation seemed more coherent. However, turning off one amp then the other still yeilded a lower out put from the woofer section.

I've considered the fact that I wanted it to sound better, but after listening to 'And Justice for All' back to back the difference was pretty dramatic.

I initially chose the 500 to go on the bottom due to the higher wattage rating. I also understand that there is much more to an amps power handling than just wattage, but I'm not clear on the effect things such as damping factor, slew rate, current, input sensitivity, etc, have on the end product.

Somethings different, that's for sure. Here are some specs I could find on the two. Input sensitivity is missing for the 0.5t.

m0.5t
8-ohm FTC rated power/ch 140 W
4-ohm FTC rated power/ch 200 W
2-ohm dynamic power/ch 300 W
4/8-ohm FTC rated THD 0.1 %
Rated full power bandwidth 20-20kHz
S/N-IHF A-Weighted,dB 110
Slew Rate 180
Dimensions (HxWxD inches) 3.5x19x11.8


m500
8-ohm FTC rated power/ch 251W
4-ohm FTC rated power/ch 450W
2-ohm dynamic power/ch 500W
Bridged mono power 700W at 8 ohms
Input Impedance (Line) 15K ohms
Rated full power bandwidth +0. -3dB 1Hz to 100kHz
S/N-IHF A-Weighted,dB > 120 dB IHF A-weighted
Slew Rate >200
Dimensions (HxWxD inches) 3.5x17.5x12.5
 
i looked and i can't find the sensitivity info either. so what you want is an amp that's more sensitive to be put on the bottom, so that it's a bit louder with the same signal. if you can get Evan to bring over something else to try, that would be nice. if you can get your hands on an amp with attenuators, you'll be best off, since you can dial in the top amp's level exactly.
 
I suppose identical amps would solve the problem to, yes? At least, if there was still a level issue, I could eliminate the amps as a cause.
 
that may help, although it doesn't always work, and in this case i suspect it might not. to know for sure, you can try vertical biamping for now, and just use the balance knob on your preamp to even things out. the left and right speakers might sound a bit different because of the different amps, but at least you'll know then whether identical amps on top and bottom (or left and right if you stick with vertical) will work.
 
Sorry guys, I haven't been following too closely. Sounds like a passive attenuator might be the fix here.
 
Is there anything worth updating yet, Jonesy?

Nothing groundbreaking. I was able to spend some more quality listening time with them last weekend and the initial assessment of the more powerful amp on top continued to be more pleasing. :dunno:

A couple other thoughts I had (not necessarily good ones)....

Measurements with the SPL meter may not necessarily be accurate? I'm using a tone from the S&V Home Theater Tune Up disc. It's a DD tone. It's also coming out analog into the preamp compared to the digital signal that leaves the DVD player and goes into the DAC before hitting the pre when listening to CD's. I have no idea if any of that makes a difference.

Break in? Whether it's the caps, pots, wire, my ears or any combination thereof, I suppose the possibility exists that I'm just not used to the new sonic quality these are putting out. There were quite a few mods done all at once, including the different amps. Some acclamation time is probably in order before doing anything drastic.

I have some cosmetic/structural items to finish up and they do sound great. I can finish up and re-assess whilst listening to some great tunes. Perhaps Evan can give a listen and provide an objective pair of ears.
 
i'm still thinking it's the amp amp differences. did you try the vertical biamping trick yet? that will tell you pretty quickly i think.
 
Chasing my tail

At the risk of a spanking, no, I have not tried the vertical bi-amp yet. I've done more listening and have sought input regarding the issue from multiple sources. All of said input has presented all kinds of possibilites, to the point of confusion actually.

Here are some of the ideations I've considered in the last week.....

Putting an active crossover in line with the two amps I have at the moment - Carver m500t and m0.5t, in order to provide attenuation to accomodate for the level differences between highs and lows. I've received two different strains of advice on this. One says even though this is not a true active bi-amp, the fact that the separate amps will be fed their correct bandpass frequencies will still provide some benefits.

The other camp says putting two crossover networks in line with each other, even with an amp in between, is disasterous, resulting in all kinds of nasty artifacts.

Next ideation.....

Go back to one amp, providing a simple jumper in between the woofer and mid/tweet board. It would still realize the benefits of the fresh re-cap and eliminate the level matching issue. The only question is what amp to use. The 500t, the 0.5t, or something all-together different.

Still another option.....

Maintain passive bi-amping and find amps with level controls. This means dumping the Carvers and scouting out the right tool for the job. Given the layers of confusion and increasing complexity of the issue this option is looking more and more attractive. Particularly since I've been drawn to some old school Yamaha amps since I investigated them a couple years ago to drive some nice Polks I used to have.

My initial thought is a couple of M-60's or M-80's, or any combination thereof. They seem to have plenty of power (some is Class A, not that I'm fully aware of what that means), purdy meters, and level controls.

I dunno. I'm thinking myself into circles here.
 
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