HH Scott 200

Since the circuit reacts differently with different tubes (open across the terminals with one, and reading 8.17k with the other tube - R134 removed), I assumed that the problem is with the tube. I switched tubes several time with the same result.

As R134 now reads correctly, I was going to put back together and retest.
 
Could only get the voltage down to .38 and .45v as pots ran out of adjustment. Would putting the 12k resistor back instead of the 10k change this (R210)?

V2; 9= 239v - 2=32v - 6=310v
V3: 9= 181v - 2=1.8v
V102: 9= 243v - 2=31.5v - 6=306v
V103: 9= 187v - 2=1.7v

Voltage didnt come up at pin2 on V2/V102.

Trans voltage at pin 6 of V2/V102 starts at 344v but instantly drops down. Is this an indication of something other than the VOM?

Others dont look that far out of line:
V1; 6=146v - 1=113v - 3=.9v - 8=1.06v
v101; 6=147v - 1=117v - 3=.9v - 8=1.04
v201; 6=159v - 1=157v - 3=1.07v - 8=1.14v
 
R210 should be restored to its original value.

I suspect that heater-cathode short was intermittent, which is not unusual. Voltages at V2/102 pins 2 and 9 still indicate low current flow in the phase splitters. Since R35/135 checked okay, I think we have to suspect weak tubes, but I say again that these voltages don't necessarily preclude near-normal operation.

The voltage decline at V2/102 pin 6 during warmup is likely normal, due to power supply loading as current begins to flow in the power tubes. The 5AR4 probably warms up slightly faster.

Any progress on the headphone jack bypass?
 
Yeah, put the 12k back in there. The other problems must have been causing the bias circuit to give issues, or the other tubes were tired and needed the bias voltage changed in order to work at the right current level.
 
Put in the 12k. Cut all wires to headphone jack and wired the speaker taps directly to transformer. Did find out that R201 is 17k in lieu of 15k when tested out of circuit if that makes any difference.

Was able to adj pots to get .35v and .30v (ran out of adjustment) after R45/R46 and R145/R146.

Swapped tube and about the same output. Dont really know what I'm even looking for.

Except I do know that I'm looking for music so on to the speakers.
 
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I suspect that heater-cathode short was intermittent, which is not unusual. Voltages at V2/102 pins 2 and 9 still indicate low current flow in the phase splitters. Since R35/135 checked okay, I think we have to suspect weak tubes...

Just for understanding, Mike are you saying that the heater-cathode short is internal to all the tubes that Old is trying? Or is he to look for a wiring error somewhere?
 
R201 should be 15K according to my schematic.

We might have to modify R210 and R213 to increase bias voltage range. Let's wait on that issue.

So there's still nothing but weak and distorted audio at your speakers, even with the OPT secondary 8R taps wired directly through to your speakers? R41/141 have been removed or shorted out?

Here's one way to test the OPTs: Yank the output tubes and drive the OPT 8-ohm secondary backwards from a 5VAC or 6.3VAC source such as a small filament transformer, with a one-ohm current sampling resistor in series. The voltage across that resistor tells you how much current the unloaded transformer is taking. A good OPT will consume only 50~200mA of magnetizing current in this test, while a shorted one could easily take over ten times that much. Make sure the sampling resistor can handle at least 5W. Voltage on the primary side will normally be quite high during this test. For example, an 8K:8R OPT has a turns ratio of 32:1, so primary voltage would be 6.3 * 32 = 202V end-to-end or half of that from CT to either end. If magnetizing current is suitably low, then check primary voltages as confirmation of a good OPT. Be aware that interrupting live connections between the filament transformer and OPT secondary can have bad consequences due to unloaded inductive reactance, so make those connections secure and switch power only to the filament xfmr primary. Use a variac instead, if possible.

Dandy: The heater-cathode short apparently occurred only in one tube and only when it was cold.
 
SHE SINGS.

I want to thank everyone who took the time and effort to help a novice who started off knowing nothing about amplifiers and circuits but has gained a little knowledge.

This may take a little tweaking but with a 5 minute test, it sounded great; both channels about even, tone controls working and no audible hum.

Never could get the design 80V out of the tubes (about 34V max) but doesn’t seem to bother the volume or sound. Have no idea what the major issue was but know it improved with the replaced tube. Maybe cutting out the headphone jack was a factor also.

I am going to replace a few parts, rework some solder joints and put this back in service. Its been a real pleasure “meeting” and conversing with all of you.

I have learned a lot on this project and am now motivated to start a new one, and Eico St70 I picked up with "good tubes" and iron. Hopefully my experience on this thread will eliminate a lot of the questions. A little reading may also be in order.

Again, Thanks to all.

Edit, last bit of advice request: Should I cut out the "clicker switch" bias adj and just run a wire to the test point where I need .35V?

Oldman
 
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Wouldn't be the worst use of that jack at all. I don't really see anyone setting it by the factory method.
 
Never could get the design 80V out of the tubes (about 34V max) but doesn’t seem to bother the volume or sound. Have no idea what the major issue was but know it improved with the replaced tube. Maybe cutting out the headphone jack was a factor also.
Kudos.

Replacing one tube couldn't bring back both channels at full strength unless you're referring to V201. I think we must conclude that the phone jack contacts had failed, leaving 220 ohms in series to both speakers. Please confirm.

Are you able to achieve correct bias current (0.35V @ R40/140) in both channels now? Can you measure power output?

You might need a distortion analyzer to determine whether running the phase splitters at less than half of their designed bias is causing performance impairment. I would consider adjusting R35/135 downward to get that bias closer to the target value for the tubes currently in service, but I understand if you're tired of wrangling.
 
Re 'tired of wrangling,' sometimes the time comes just to enjoy the music for a season. The beauty of a hobby, rather than work, is you can always come back to the 'problem' or upgrade at a later date.
 
Was able to get voltage to .35v and .30v (pot ran out of adjustment) at R140/R40. What would you adjust R35/R135 down to? It was close to spec when checked.

Reading posted on #193 were my final after bypassing headphone.
 
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What would you adjust R35/R135 down to? It was close to spec when checked.

I looked at the triode curves in the Philips ECL86 datasheet and came up with a value of 1100 ohms for -0.9V of bias to yield 0.8mA at 120V cathode-anode, to produce the voltages shown on the schematic. Somebody should check my work. That's so far away from the factory's 8.2K value that I think the only reasonable way to approach this issue is empirical. I would connect a decade box or pot across R35 and adjust it to achieve 70~80VDC at V2 pin 2, then install a fixed resistor of equal value across R35. This makes the modification easily reversible in case you end up using tubes with characteristics closer to the originals.
 
"moving" the grid closer to the cathode makes sense to me. Split load inverters typically run very close to the same top and bottom resistor anyway, so having something closer to 1.1k in that spot doesn't seem completely unreasonable.
 
What if I just clip a 1.5k resistor in parallel to the 8.2k and see what it does if it wont harm the unit? The builder must have been a fly fisherman and all my testing is taking its toll on the terminal strips when removing components.
Is the 80v at pin 2 my goal regardless of the voltage at R140? Or do I need to get to both voltages correct (the 80v and the .35v)?
 
Clip it in, see what you get. From memory here, other amps I've fooled with that have a similar phase inverter do run somewhere in the 50-100 volt range at the cathode so 80v doesn't sound completely unreasonable to me. Thats just seat of the pants guessing though, I made no effort to base that on hard data.

The 0.35 volts across the 10 ohm cathode resistor shouldn't be affected by what you do with the 8.2k on the phase inverter.
 
Try it. You won't do any damage. Split-load phase inverters normally want about 25~30% of B+ dropped across each of the cathode and anode resistors (100K in this case) for best results.
 
Great calcs!
81v and 82v with the 1.5k in parallel. Should I tweak it down a little?
1.45K in circuit (the resistor had drifted to 1.7k)

Dont have a pot so will have to must find/order a resistor that calcs best for the application.
 
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