1. Time for some upgrades in server hardware and software to enhance security and take AK to the next level. Please contribute what you can to sales@audiokarma.org at PayPal.com - Thanks from the AK Team
    Dismiss Notice

High End Separates.....

Discussion in 'The Cutting Edge' started by TubeHiFiNut, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. Dave_72

    Dave_72 Active Member

    Messages:
    153
    I'd say your stuff is very competitive to today's latest, plus it's been broken in for years now...that can be a good thing.
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. sqlsavior

    sqlsavior AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,955
    Location:
    Española NM
    If I were you, and I wanted to experiment with tri-amping crossovers, I think I'd try a double-passive setup. By that I mean simple passive 6dB/octave RC filters at line-level, augmented by another 6 dB passive at speaker level, where needed. I don't think my curiosity would be satisfied until I had at least had a go at it. The line-level ones are simple to make by cutting a cheap patch cord in half, and soldering in a resistor and a capacitor of appropriate values in to reconnect the halves, with a shunt included. I did it once long ago on some corner horns, and it worked well with two GAS Grandsons - loudest system I've ever heard.

    I think the "purist" 6 dB/octave passive approach has the potential to sound better than an active crossover, and each driver still has its own amp. I never had the itch to fool around with my Maggie's crossovers, but I'd sure try the double-passive if I were tri-amping...

    Good luck!

    :music:
     
  3. ehoove

    ehoove Old & New - Carpe Diem Staff Member Super Mod Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,141
    Location:
    Mid-Maryland
    Now that idea has some merit!
    Thanks,
    Jim
     
  4. TubeHiFiNut

    TubeHiFiNut Super Member

    Messages:
    1,113
    Location:
    The Silver State
    With respect, sqlsavior, I always thought the primary benefits of biamping (or triamping) are restricting the amp to only that portion of the audio range it is reproducing and also to get the passives out from between the amp and the speaker.
     
  5. botrytis

    botrytis Trying not to be a Small Speaker Hoarder Subscriber

    Messages:
    29,379
    Location:
    PODUNC USA......
    There is compromises in everything. Wilson Audio gives you one set of connections for even the Alexandria XLF speakers. They have tried active bi and triamping but swear it is no better than what you get with their speakers stock.
     
  6. TubeHiFiNut

    TubeHiFiNut Super Member

    Messages:
    1,113
    Location:
    The Silver State
    Interesting. I may have to try both active and passive biamping and see what differences I hear.

    Thank you, botrytis and sqlsavior. :)
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  7. sqlsavior

    sqlsavior AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,955
    Location:
    Española NM
    I agree. But the line level passives still restrict the amp, just not as drastically. And Richard Vandersteen has been using 6 dB/octave slopes AFAIK for years, to avoid phase distortion. The old trick of inverting the tweeter's polarity to make the the drivers in phase at the crossover point in a 12 dB/octave system, for example, becomes unnecessary.

    I'm not saying it's the way to go, but if one is willing to go to the extremes of bi/tri-amping, or modifying one's Maggie crossovers, for that matter, a very popular pastime in the Asylum btw, then it seems worth a try to me. It is totally a DIY thing, of course, so not for those with turn-key preferences. It is right about at the limit of my willingness to fiddle these days, and my motivation is low given the Quad's seamlessness. But if I build a pair of "They are here" speakers, possibly horns or OBs, then I'll probably try it again...

    :music:
     
  8. ehoove

    ehoove Old & New - Carpe Diem Staff Member Super Mod Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,141
    Location:
    Mid-Maryland
    I am using 6db Butterworth slopes on the MGIIIa's with the Behringer other than the bass panels which use 18db Butterworth slopes with adjusted phase/polarity etc.
    Regards,
    Jim
     
  9. TubeHiFiNut

    TubeHiFiNut Super Member

    Messages:
    1,113
    Location:
    The Silver State
    Bi-amping lends itself to experimentation, fine tuning and more experimentation.

    Used to run bi-amped Tympani I-Ds. You low pass the bass panels at 1100hz and high pass the tweeter panel at 1600hz. Both at 6db/octave.

    Always seemed odd to me but it crossed over seamlessly and sounded wonderful.
     
  10. sqlsavior

    sqlsavior AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,955
    Location:
    Española NM
  11. ehoove

    ehoove Old & New - Carpe Diem Staff Member Super Mod Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,141
    Location:
    Mid-Maryland
    Yes, I am also considering their 3 way active models as well!
    Regards,
    Jim
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  12. TubeHiFiNut

    TubeHiFiNut Super Member

    Messages:
    1,113
    Location:
    The Silver State
  13. sqlsavior

    sqlsavior AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,955
    Location:
    Española NM
    There are 26 preamps in Stereophile's Class A list this issue (October 2015). In alphabetical order, with prices listed, they are:

    Audio Research Reference 5SE, $13,000
    Audio Research SP20, $9,000
    Ayre Acoustics KX-R Twenty, $27,500
    Ayre Acoustics K-XE MP, $4,350
    Bespoke Audio Company Passive, $12,000
    Boulder 2110, $55,000
    Classe CP-800, $6,000
    Convergent Audio Technology SL1 Reference, $9,995
    D’Agostino Momentum, $32,000
    DarTZeel NHB-18S, $31,700
    Lamm Industries LL1 Signature, $42,790
    Luxman Classic CL-38U, $4,200
    Music First Audio Baby Reference, $8,590
    Nagra Jazz, $14,500
    Parasound Halo JC 2 BP, $4,495
    Pass Labs XP-30, $16,500
    Placette Audio Active Line Stage, $6,995
    Promitheus Audio Reference TVC, $890
    Shindo Masseto, $13,500
    Simaudio Moon Evolution 850P, $30,000
    Simaudio Moon Evolution 740P, $9,500
    TAD Laboratories C600, $42,000
    VAC Signature SE, $19,500
    VTL TL5.5 Series II Signature, $8,000
    Ypsilon PST-100 Mk2, $37,000
    Zesto Audio Leto, $7,500

    Total $466405
    Average $17,942.50

    When I see the average price of "Stereophile Class A" preamp at nearly $18K, it just tickles me pink to know that I have sound that plays in that ballpark, for $580. :yes: I must live with only one volume knob, however. Just thought I'd spread the word!

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=649914

    No affiliation. YMMV. Have a banana.

    :banana:
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
    royzilla, Leland47 and guiller like this.
  14. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,348
    Location:
    MI, US
    I had to pick up on this comment. When I first heard Martin-Logan speakers in 1987, it was something of a revelation--it was the first time I had really heard "into" the music, if that makes sense. They were the CLS-II. The dealer knew I couldn't afford them, but was very excited to have me and my buddy give them a listen, and invited me to stop back with my own selections.

    That was an eye opener. Studio recordings (especially rock) I thought were "good" sounded flat, one-dimensional and somewhat cobbled together--I could even hear a tape edit or two. I also brought along a couple others that weren't multitracked studio recordings. The one dmp Records CD I brought along just opened up considerably when played back. It still was recorded in a studio, but you could sense the space of the studio, the instruments...well, everything. Sounded much more natural.

    Nowadays I have such a broad collection that I could easily find enough well-recorded acoustic music to audition components with, although I will still throw in a well-known multitracked studio recording just to see how the tonal balance sounds with music I listen to regularly. I think reproducing acoustic music is more difficult, as there are a lot more nuances that could get lost along the way.
     
  15. ehoove

    ehoove Old & New - Carpe Diem Staff Member Super Mod Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,141
    Location:
    Mid-Maryland
    Unfortunately a new grandson may relegate me to the SS model.
    Regards,
    Jim
     
  16. TubeHiFiNut

    TubeHiFiNut Super Member

    Messages:
    1,113
    Location:
    The Silver State
    Understood....hopefully you'll be listening to music with your Grandson someday.

    Got to pass the Audio Bug along to a new generation.
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  17. ehoove

    ehoove Old & New - Carpe Diem Staff Member Super Mod Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,141
    Location:
    Mid-Maryland
    Absolutely!
     
  18. TOM1040

    TOM1040 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    582
    Location:
    Coast of Maine
    I guess my separates would qualify as "Hi-End"(see signature). I am wondering if Marantz is coming out with an update sometime?
     
  19. guest110

    guest110 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,462
    The cost may represent the fact that it is completely passive, with no caps, resistors, op amps or tubes included. Just transformers (albeit very good ones) in a wooden box plus a few knobs. How can anyone compare this to the SP-20? And yes, I've heard the TVC (though not the reference) and own an ARC. Great bass, but I like it loud and full, so maybe that is what turned me off.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  20. sqlsavior

    sqlsavior AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,955
    Location:
    Española NM
    I totally get your point and agree. But neither I nor Stereophile really compared them - just lumped them in a category (their highest), based on sound quality. The minimalist approach remains a valid one in this hobby, imo, and can cost less, too. Alternately, one could get possibly-even-better transformers in a non-wooden box for Music First's price of $8590. Not for all systems/sources, that's for sure. I covet an SP-20, but I have a TVC. :)

    :music:
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015

Share This Page