Honda Civic Part with no name.

[Kahoona]

HI
No matter what the question one of us always seems to know something about it so here goes. I am trying to find this part. I can't seem to find it listed anywhere and Honda does not even admit to it's existence. If I knew what it was called I might be able to find it in fastener catalogues. Does anyone know it's name? It is the piece that the bolt that holds the lower control arm bushing for a 1997 Honda Civic threads into. It is welded inside the frame. The bolt is visible at top and bottom. It is threaded inside. It broke loose from its welds while trying to replace the bushings. It has been cut out. Any ideas???

 

[c.coyle]

Doodad?

 

[leesonic]

It probably wouldn't be listed anywhere (apart from top secret Honda built documents) because it is welded inside the frame when the car is made. It's almost like a captive nut, I suspect it has that grey part if it was used in a box section, to stop it from crushing. My 1988 Merkur XR4Ti has four captive nuts welded inside the frame rails for the front sway bar or anti-roll bar. When these nuts strip out, it's a challenge to figure out what to do. Some people re-tap the 10mm nuts out to 12mm, but it the nut breaks off it's a bigger problem, often involving slicing open the frame to weld a new nut in there, and then welding it shut again.

Lee.

 

[beat_truck]

It probably wouldn't be listed anywhere (apart from top secret Honda built documents) because it is welded inside the frame when the car is made. It's almost like a captive nut, I suspect it has that grey part if it was used in a box section, to stop it from crushing. My 1988 Merkur XR4Ti has four captive nuts welded inside the frame rails for the front sway bar or anti-roll bar. When these nuts strip out, it's a challenge to figure out what to do. Some people re-tap the 10mm nuts out to 12mm, but it the nut breaks off it's a bigger problem, often involving slicing open the frame to weld a new nut in there, and then welding it shut again.

Lee.

I agree.

I've had those welded/caged nuts break loose in frame rails and a trailing arm before. Not fun.

 

[Chip Chester]

Most likely an attempt to get one from a junkyard will result in a part that's just as bad. But a machine shop can drill out the errant bolt, clean up the threads, then you can source a new bolt and have the whole affair re-welded into your frame... Or it might be quicker to start from scratch. Since it directly keeps the car from dragging on the ground, choose someone you trust to replicate and install. However, somebody made it once, so it can be made again. Just be sure to tell the maker where it goes and what it does, so materials are chosen accordingly.

 

[petehall347]

if it lines up with the other side of the frame a hole drilled and a tubular spacer will be and upgrade .
really need to see where it came from .

 

[WillVT]

Weld Nut?
Strangely enough, a few weeks ago, I heard a story on NPR about a company in Germany that specializes in weld nuts for the auto industry.
Here's the story. It was pretty interesting actually. Sounds like maybe Honda is sourcing them from somewhere else...

 

[leesonic]

I agree.

I've had those welded/caged nuts break loose in frame rails and a trailing arm before. Not fun.

On the Merk, there is actually a "false floor" if you lift up the carpets and underpadding, and remove some of the bituminous damping material they put on the floor. This part of the floor is actually perforated from the factory, and if you open up some of the perforations, you can see the back of the captive nuts. If the metal it still good, you can go through with a grade 12.9 bolt with a big washer, and use a shouldered nut on the underside. I'm not sure how this helps the OP, but there must be something possible.

Lee.

 

[Kahoona]

It probably wouldn't be listed anywhere (apart from top secret Honda built documents) because it is welded inside the frame when the car is made. It's almost like a captive nut, I suspect it has that grey part if it was used in a box section, to stop it from crushing. Some people re-tap the 10mm nuts out to 12mm, but it the nut breaks off it's a bigger problem, often involving slicing open the frame to weld a new nut in there, and then welding it shut again.
Yes. Good point about the barrel preventing crushing of the rail. Already borrowed a grinder and learned how to cut through the floor and the rail to extract it and can get it welded shut later. I fear that drilling out the old 12mm and re-taping to 14 will be the answer. Drilling through that hardened bolt accurately is beyond my experience but I can learn if I can't get the piece. Thanks
Lee.

I've had those welded/caged nuts break loose in frame rails and a trailing arm before. Not fun.[/QUOTE]
How did you fix it?

Most likely an attempt to get one from a junkyard will result in a part that's just as bad. But a machine shop can drill out the errant bolt, clean up the threads, then you can source a new bolt and have the whole affair re-welded into your frame... Or it might be quicker to start from scratch. Since it directly keeps the car from dragging on the ground, choose someone you trust to replicate and install. However, somebody made it once, so it can be made again. Just be sure to tell the maker where it goes and what it does, so materials are chosen accordingly.

Yes! Dragging on the ground is not so good ;-D. Are you suggesting having one made from scratch? Hardened bar stock. drill press, cut off. Weld washer to top and tap hole? Didn't think about that. Nice.

Diagram might help. Sorry if it is shaky. This is looking back from just ahead of the trailing arm pivot on the passenger's side. I have cut the floor and the rail and the inner rail and can weld back with some help. Sounds like either drill and tap larger or make a new piece. Just drilling the hole oversize and putting it back, then adding a washer and nut welded into place as suggested might work too. All hardened steel. Saw the last 1.5" off of a 50 cal barrel would be about right too.

 

[gadget73]

Is there any access from above that you could get a wrench into? if so just having a spacer made, or worst case getting the bolt extracted from the existing piece, drilling it through, and using a nut on the back side would make it go. All you need here is a spacer and something for the bolt to thread into. Being welded in like that sure makes it easier to deal with but in a pinch it just needs to hold together.

 

[usedto]

New rock song for America:

"I've been to the dealer for a part with no name"

 

[Kahoona]

New rock song for America:

"I've been to the dealer for a part with no name"

"It felt good to be out of the rain"

 

[El Pee]

It's the The Flux Capacitor...

 

[Kahoona]

Is there any access from above that you could get a wrench into? if so just having a spacer made, or worst case getting the bolt extracted from the existing piece, drilling it through, and using a nut on the back side would make it go. All you need here is a spacer and something for the bolt to thread into. Being welded in like that sure makes it easier to deal with but in a pinch it just needs to hold together.

Here are the cuts I made to get it out through the floor. Not as bad as it looks really. That is how I got it out. With the help of my neighbor, a tome mechanic, I got the bolt ends cut off and the bolt drilled out with an 11mm drill (12mm bolt). I ordered a tap and some bolts from Amazon overnight on Wednesday which may arrive Friday if I am lucky. We hope to be able to tap out the original threads but it is questionable. If that does not work I will take your advice and drill it to just over 12mm and weld a 12mm nut to the top of it before putting it back and welding it up. You sound like you have been there before.
Interesting item. I just realized yesterday that this corner of the car was under salt water during Hurricane Wilma years ago. I thought that we had parked it in a high enough spot but later saw the waterline on the underside. This is the kind of problem that salt water makes. We parked it higher for Irma and it did not get submerged at all but still I had to replace all of the brake pads, shoes, front calipers and some other parts which were frozen or stuck. Salt is nasty!

 

[WillVT]

View attachment 1103458

Salt is nasty!

I was going to say, this sounds like a problem in a car from a northern state, not Key West! Up here, our poor cars spend most of the winter with a permanent coat of salt on every surface.

 

[Kahoona]

I was going to say, this sounds like a problem in a car from a northern state, not Key West! Up here, our poor cars spend most of the winter with a permanent coat of salt on every surface.

Down here on Big Pine Key we take our salt as a 160mph spray if ocean water that gets driven into every crack and crevice . People find salt water in tires or headlights.

 

[quaddriver]

As Tinker once said on McHales Navy "its a left handed gronehsteel"

 

[WillVT]

Down here on Big Pine Key we take our salt as a 160mph spray if ocean water that gets driven into every crack and crevice . People find salt water in tires or headlights.

Ah, yes. I didn't think of that.

 

[Kahoona]

So...In the end we drilled and tapped the piece with no name but the threads were damaged. We ran the bolt up through and added a hardened flange nut which we spot welded in several places to the top of the doodad. We welded the frame bits back. The floor was not thin exactly but in true Honda fashion it was unweldable and just melted wherever we tried. Since the floor was under the seat and not structural I covered it with the Gorilla brand of duct tape and sprayed a bunch of 2M rubberized undercoat. I believe we are OK now. Thank you all for your additions to the nomenclature and repairs. I suspect we all had fun. I want to tell a short story about how we got to this point because the result is funny.
This car sat out Hurricane Irma's full fury on the highest ground (3'6" above sea level) on the island. It did well with no serious problems but the brakes were spongy so I thought I'd change the pads and shoes and make sure all was well. Do you know the song "I know an old lady who swallowed a fly"? Well...I changed the pads in front but the calipers were frozen and needed replacement so I dis and saw that the CV joints were bad so changed the front half axles then the brakes wouldn't bleed and it turned out the booster was busted and after it came out the master cylinder wasn't mastering anything. All done and on the the rear. I fought the brake shoes and needed to change a stuck parking brake cable to do it. That done I already knew that the trailing arm bushings were shot so what the heck. And that is how I wound up here. This car is good to go except that after finishing it we discovered a leak in the catalytic converter . It might just have to leak for a while. One more thing. This Monarch Caterpillar chose our Honda bumper to make its Chrysalis. They only do this on objects that do not move. Is this a vote of no confidence or just a comment on the fact that it hasn't gone anywhere recently.

 

[gadget73]

You sound like you have been there before.

Broke a couple of functionally similar pieces on my Lincoln when I replaced the body mounts There are two holes in the trunk pan now that I had to cut for access to get the broken welded nut out and install a normal nut into. Not structural, I also just taped it over and put the carpet back to hide it.

I have definitely experienced snowball effect on cars though. Start out looking to do one simple job, before you know it you've replaced half the car.