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davidflas

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Little Bear P8 Tube Preamp

I've been dabbling in Chi-fi lately because my cash flow has been very meager, but I still want to participate in our great hobby. I currently Own a Little Bear P8 headphone amp/line preamp. It has three tubes, one Chinese 6N5P, and two GE JAN 5670W tubes. This thing runs very hot, and as a tube noob, I want to know if this is normal, or if I should be concerned. The hottest parts on the amp are two gold colored caps(?) that flank the large tube. They are so hot that when I touched one of them by mistake, I got a blister on my finger. The brown caps that are next to these parts are also hot to the touch. The golden components say 20W2KJ on them.

Pic:

DSC_6856 by davidflas, on Flickr

The other hot spot on the unit is the toroidal transformer. The metal disc on top is too hot to touch comfortably. I run the pre with the acrylic top off for maximum cooling.

Pic:

DSC_6857 by davidflas, on Flickr


Here's the info provided by the Ebay seller:

P8 uses tube amplification circuit in the electronic is relatively rare in the SEPP single ended push-pull, OCL no output capacitor direct coupled power amplifier circuit. The circuit output dynamic than the cathode output generally large (undistorted swing: 30Vp-p), due to the cancellation of the output capacitance, low frequency response can dive deeper, more solid, soprano Alto can be more transparent.

But in order to make the circuit in the case of direct coupled DC level is zero, need symmetrical supply complex. In order to stabilize the operation of the circuit, and the machine also adopts a "zero servo tracking circuit". In order to ensure the safety of the output load,

Technical Parameters:
1) input terminal: a group of RCA
2), the output terminal:A:RCA output.work as preamplifier .
B. a 6.35 earphone socket.
3) frequency response: 12HZ---100KHZ (-1dB)
4) distortion: 0.05% (300 ohm, 80 mW)
The maximum output power of 5):
A. 300 mw (600/300 ohm)
A. 300 MW (600/300 Ohm)
B. 350 mw ( 120 ohm)
B. 350 MW (120 Ohm)
C. 250 mw ( 32 ohm)
C. 250 MW (32 Ohm)
6) output impedance: 32 ohm - 600 ohm
7) voltage: 110V or 220V (user specified)
8) power consumption: 80 VA
9) size: 265 (deep) X140 (W) X68 (high) mm
10) weight:1.98Kg


So, what does everybody think? Is this running hot by design? Or is it going to heat itself into an early death? I have to say that it sounds great as a preamp, I use it with my diy TPA 3116.
 
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Those gold things are power resistors and can be expected to get hot. In general, yes, hot designs tend to cook themselves to death, especially the nearby electrolytic caps. If you can touch the top of the transformer for 5 seconds, it's probably OK. This seems like a design that would benefit greatly from a small fan.
 
Those gold resistors look to be rated for 20 watts. Small soldering irons run about that wattage, just to put things in perspective. They probably aren't running at 20 watts, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are chugging out 10w of heat.
 
I can't tell from the picture... are those 105 degree C rated electrolytic caps? They probably need to be, with that tube and those big resistors that close to them. Those are the kinds of parts that can readily get "cooked", as mentioned above, if they're not up to the task...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Or an aluminum enclosure.

Funny that you should say that...I just took delivery of this:

DSC_6858 by davidflas, on Flickr

It is the same preamp as the one we've been talking about, just in a sliver faced metal case. It runs for about 30 minutes before getting too hot to produce sound.

Somewhere "off board" to mount those power resistors.

I haven't opened this preamp up yet, but through the bottom vents in the case, I saw that the power resistors have additional heat sinks on them.

How does the amp sound David?

jeff

It sounds great as a preamp, I only have Apple EarPods as headphones, and they sound OK. In my computer set up I have it connected to my laptop via the headphone jack, it feeds a diy TPA 3116 chip amp that I built into a wooden craft box, speakers are the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR that really sound great for the price. Even in this near-field setup, the system is very quiet, no hiss, buzz, or other spurious sounds. Below is a pic of the pre in action before I took to using it without its top cover.

DSC_5104 by davidflas, on Flickr
 
I can't tell from the picture... are those 105 degree C rated electrolytic caps? They probably need to be, with that tube and those big resistors that close to them. Those are the kinds of parts that can readily get "cooked", as mentioned above, if they're not up to the task...

Regards,
Gordon.

Gordon,

Those caps are 105C rated, I just checked. That makes me feel a bit better.
 
That top nut looks like a good place to mount a passive heat sink, and a hung of MUMETAL between the resistors and caps might add a little life to things.
 
Depending what, precisely, those resistors are doing I'd give some serious consideration to moving them out of that spot. If they are power supply dropping resistors, it should be no problem extending the wire leads and bolting the resistors to a metal plate for a heat sink, or even just moving them someplace to allow breathing room for cooling. The enclosed one with the toroid on top I'm guessing has a nice open hole there in the back now. Moving those resistors back there, mounted to terminal strips with airspace would probably help a bit.
 
It is the same preamp as the one we've been talking about, just in a sliver faced metal case. It runs for about 30 minutes before getting too hot to produce sound.

It actually overheats and stops working?:eek:

It sounds great as a preamp, I only have Apple EarPods as headphones, and they sound OK. In my computer set up I have it connected to my laptop via the headphone jack, it feeds a diy TPA 3116 chip amp that I built into a wooden craft box, speakers are the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR that really sound great for the price. Even in this near-field setup, the system is very quiet, no hiss, buzz, or other spurious sounds. Below is a pic of the pre in action before I took to using it without its top cover.

Ok, thanks for the update.

Depending what, precisely, those resistors are doing I'd give some serious consideration to moving them out of that spot.

They're cathode resistors for the big double triode. I've seen a few pre/headphone designs using the same output tube (6080/6AS7), and the cathode resistors are usually 25W jobs.

jeff
 
It actually overheats and stops working?:eek:

Yes, I have opened an Ebay case, since the preamp clearly is not working right out of the box. It was poorly packed too, and missing one tube.

I have to say, despite the heat, I love the sound of these preamps.
 
My solution for hot tube gear:

this quiet 4 inch Massey HV fan from WM. Last one I bought was under $10. Swivels 180 degrees and sits on rubber feet.

51c6sv%2ByTVL._SL500_SL160_.jpg
 
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