Hot Rodding Your Bias

I set the bias on my NAD2200 to book value. At one watt output, which is where you would hear the difference, I cannot measure the distortion as my distortion analyser only goes down to 0.001% and I get no reading from the NAD. So stick to the book value as it has been determined by the manufacturer to be the ideal value.

Bryan
 
OK guys don't hold back now...tell me how you really feel ;D

Sounds like most (but not all) think this is a boneheaded move. I'm going to do some thermal measurments this weekend at stock and slightly elevated setting and will most certainly watch her closely.

Appreciate the intellectual intercourse.
 
So ... if increasing the bias can increase crossover distortion, when you're dealing with touchy pots is it better to overshoot or undershoot? On my Kenwood KA7100 (which I was just fiddling with) I went for about 21mV, partially because that's where I could get both stable. I could probably do mid-19mV as well, but getting 20mV exactly is difficult (yes, I should have replaced the variable resistors when I recapped it...).
 
Whatever gets you closest. If it was equal error on either side, I'd probably go high. The amp will warm up quicker that way. And the distortion increases slower as you go higher rather than lower on the bias setting. So set it right, but if you can't, then a little high is better than a lttle low. Key word is 'little'.

Terry
 
I did this with my Pioneer A400, boosted it up to 180mA and oh man the SPEED of the sound became epic. Amp runs hotter than before but its nothing to worry about. Tom Evans modded the A400 and turned the bias up to 200mA so I was confident I won't have any issues with 180mA. Mind you my A400 is also in excellent condition with new smoothing caps and electric cord.

NOT RECOMMENDED turning up the bias on amps that are no where registered to have benefited from such modification without repercussions, proven by extended testing and usage by trained technicians and regular users.

So despite the fact I have done it my clear advice is DON'T DO IT. You might electrocute yourself and kill the amp. If not now it may slowly cook within few months and pop.
 
So, in layman's terms, can someone explain to me why idle is important *during* the music playing?

Or is the transistor so much faster that it is actually idling *during* amplifying?

Anyone got a link for me?
 
Cause the current rises as the volume is turned up- a sliding scale so to speak- at that point it's not IDLE current, more of a driving current or running current. If the circuit is made with a certain "maximum" current you can exceed it buy setting idle current at a higher spec- of course nobody plays at max volume. In my mind- every component is designed with a certain operating temperature in mind, if you are running them hotter at idle then they will run even hotter while playing- it's just a dangerous thing to do, you will wear out your amp quicker. Nobody is saying "it cannot be done", do whatever you want, it's your equipment, for those who do it knowingly, just don't come on here crying cause you blew up your amp. That's all.

Think of a car- curb idle set at the factory is 900 rpm and you go tweak it to 2700rpm- what is that going to do to the car, cause premature wear to everything in the drive train.

Of course manufacturers could be completely full of shit with their published data, I guess running the heatsinks at idle to the tune of 140F would be an indicator.
 
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I think the increased bias will cause the amp to run hotter...:scratch2:... but couldn't a little bacon grease be used to augment the heatsink grease, to counteract this?
 
So, in layman's terms, can someone explain to me why idle is important *during* the music playing?

Or is the transistor so much faster that it is actually idling *during* amplifying?

Anyone got a link for me?

Probably better if you google "Class AB bias tutorial" and find one that speaks on a level you are comfortable with. Bias is a very simple concept, yet gets very complcated in the details.
Lots of good tutorials out there, but I don't know what technical level you are comfortable with.

Terry

edit:
Here's one that looks pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuVqccvgNPM
 
So, in layman's terms, can someone explain to me why idle is important *during* the music playing?

Or is the transistor so much faster that it is actually idling *during* amplifying?

Anyone got a link for me?

In layman's terms amp transistors run in MHz and by increasing the bias and their MHz (speed of resolving) they will have higher resolution and reproduce more signal details more clearly.

My Pioneer A400's Toshiba 2SC3281/2SA1302 can go up to 30MHz but me setting the bias up to 180mA got them running as far as 21-23MHz so they don't increase THD by being pushed to their limits and every other component around them.

This increase in resolution is quite audible. If you like a fast resolving amp without messing with biases, high current designs are your best bet. Harman Kardon 665Vxi for example.
 
In layman's terms amp transistors run in MHz and by increasing the bias and their MHz (speed of resolving) they will have higher resolution and reproduce more signal details more clearly.

My Pioneer A400's Toshiba 2SC3281/2SA1302 can go up to 30MHz but me setting the bias up to 180mA got them running as far as 21-23MHz so they don't increase THD by being pushed to their limits and every other component around them.

This increase in resolution is quite audible. If you like a fast resolving amp without messing with biases, high current designs are your best bet. Harman Kardon 665Vxi for example.

Unfortunately this is not accurate.
 
I'm not an EE so please refer to Dejan's article at TNT for better understanding of this. http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/bias_e.html

Here's a practical example. Toshiba's 2SA1302 power transistor, for example, with 100 mA of current will go up to about 17 MHz, with 150 mA up to about 21 MHz, with 200 mA up to about 25 MHz and with 300 mA over 30 MHz (as per manufacturer's data sheets). While a transistor's speed is not an exclusive function of its response, the response is the most important factor, of that there's no doubt. Obviously, using more bias will improve its response and shorten its reaction speed.

As a general rule, the factory set point will usually be the lowest acceptable point. In most cases, increasing the quiescent current will yield beneficial results, such as improved speed, better coherence, more to much more spatial information and usually a better, clearer bass and less distortion, both static (THD, IM) and especially dynamic (TIM, TID, SID, etc). However, it will also cause the output stage to produce more heat, so one must be careful not to overdo it. Increased heat is good, very desirable up to a point, since it will allow the amp to work under more even conditions thermally, but I repeat, up to a point only. Also, you will reach a point above which you can go on increasing the quiescent current, but will receive very little, if any, sonic benefit; this simply means that you have reached and gone over the truly optimal point.

So far the jokes are on you nay sayers.
 
Mike Bettinger at GASAudio adjusts bias to result in approx. 10 watts class A, at least on the Son & Grandson. Pretty sure that's more than GAS spec. The guy knows his stuff and stands by his work. "Outstanding".

Bear in mind, though, that the Son has 1,000 sq.in. of heatsink area; the Grandson about 1/2 that (with half the output devices).


WHEN AMPZILLA SPEAKS, PEOPLE LISTEN.
 
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Some amps are OK to bias upwards, some aren't. As long as you're willing to try it out, measure the results, and test it over time, you're probably fine. Otherwise, it's a gamble.
 
Some amps are OK to bias upwards, some aren't. As long as you're willing to try it out, measure the results, and test it over time, you're probably fine. Otherwise, it's a gamble.

Can anyone describe what measurements would be necessary to ensure safe operation and "better" performance? I'm not necessarily considering it, just interested...
 
The measurments I'm doing are temperature using a thermocouple on the output transistors and heatsinks and the sonics by ear.

There is no doubt that the bass is punchier and better defined and that higher fequency artifacts are more present than before. For example I can now hear the thwack of the beater hitting the kick drum on Muses's "Supremacy" where it was more of a thump before. I play the drums and own a recording studio and am quite sensitive to the sonic signature of bass drums. Overall the sound is just tighter with higher resolution.

I am not suggesting that anyone do this experiment and don't want a flame war but it is interesting to hear other's results. So far I'm quite pleased with warming thing up a bit.

Not sure the car idle analogy is valid. It's more like your going down the street with the car at 600 rpm idle doing 5 mph verses setting the idle at 1200 rpm and doing 10 mph. BTW it is most likely not a linear function but you get the idea. When you step on the gas which one will reach 20 mph quicker?
 
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