How does H-D stay relevant in a changing market?
- Thread starter Pio1980
- Start date
grillebilly
Empty Head
I don't hold out much hope, aside from downsizing. Looking at their history from when I started riding in the early 70's, there were cycles (no pun intended) when they couldn't give bikes away to when you had to wait or pay way over list to get one. The market is currently flooded with barely used bikes. People bought into a lifestyle that was "in" but like all fashions they go out of style. People would spend in "motor clothes" at the dealer what a decent used bike could be bought for. Those days are mostly behind us.
Harley got way too big for their britches. They rode the wave of popularity that most likely will never, ever return.
Maybe making smaller bikes for foreign markets would be a savior.
I like the brand but would not consider a new bike, since one with 3,000 miles can be bought at less than half price.
Harley got way too big for their britches. They rode the wave of popularity that most likely will never, ever return.
Maybe making smaller bikes for foreign markets would be a savior.
I like the brand but would not consider a new bike, since one with 3,000 miles can be bought at less than half price.
Grillebilly pretty much sums it up. I'm no rider, simply because the asshat drivers here keep me plenty scared in my Miata, and it has 2 more tires.
However, I think the whole "I'm a doctor, and on weekends, I suit up in my badass leather chaps and ride my Harvey Davlitson!" craze is on the back foot.
Sad seeing a classic American brand caught in an ever-shifting market. I do hope they figure out a niche, and stick around. We're running out of things such as this.
However, I think the whole "I'm a doctor, and on weekends, I suit up in my badass leather chaps and ride my Harvey Davlitson!" craze is on the back foot.
Sad seeing a classic American brand caught in an ever-shifting market. I do hope they figure out a niche, and stick around. We're running out of things such as this.
sKiZo
Hates received: 92644 43.20°N 85.50°W
Leastwise, not as much as the AMF Years done dinged em a good un ... <G>
From Wiki (I swear this isn't me!)
In 1969, American Machine and Foundry (AMF) bought the company, streamlined production, and slashed the workforce. This tactic resulted in a labor strike and lower-quality bikes. The bikes were expensive and inferior in performance, handling, and quality to Japanese motorcycles. Sales and quality declined, and the company almost went bankrupt. The "Harley-Davidson" name was mocked as "Hardly Ableson", "Hardly Driveable,"
Apologies to any AMFHD owners out there ... especially all the ones who are bigger than me.
E.Man
Super Member
Lots of better cruiser bikes around for less, here at least. My brother rides a 1800cc Suzuki which is big loud and fast and easy to ride.
We're going to be seeing all sorts of electric vehicles. Aussie Post has used a Honda 110cc step through for so long that model is universally known as "the postie bike" here. They're just now changing to an electric trike.
We're going to be seeing all sorts of electric vehicles. Aussie Post has used a Honda 110cc step through for so long that model is universally known as "the postie bike" here. They're just now changing to an electric trike.
Earlier this week there was some discussion somewhere about how the tariffs were hurting Harley's profitability. While that may have something to do with it short term, the folks commenting above seem to have the same feel that I do; management is not seeing the big picture and holding on to a shrinking market. They need to look at who's buying motorcycles, where they, are and what they want.
Is anybody under 40 buying a new Harley????
10 or 20 years ago there were huge waiting lists for Harleys as the boomers kids were grown and the mortgages paid off so it was toy time, but now that shine has worn off and Harley hasn't rolled with the punches...
Is anybody under 40 buying a new Harley????
10 or 20 years ago there were huge waiting lists for Harleys as the boomers kids were grown and the mortgages paid off so it was toy time, but now that shine has worn off and Harley hasn't rolled with the punches...
grillebilly
Empty Head
I can't defend AMF because I really don't know much about business. That said, if it wasn't for the development of the newer engine, dubbed the "Evolution", HD would of been dead in the 80's. All the R&D and production of the Evo engine was done under AMF's watch. They were also prominent in the development of what later became "on time" production, as parts inventory was slashed in favor of being ready at time of assembly.
I think it was pretty much what all US manufacturers were doing in the 70's- that being building absolute junk and knowing the public would buy it up. Which did not work out as planned, and gave rise to the Japanese cars dominating the US market. Big business was lazy, their competition hungry, we all know how that ends up.
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grillebilly
Empty Head
Let me also add that most people who dismiss the brand probably has not spent much time on one. Of course no bike is the right bike for every rider. Same as cars, we have Cadillac and BMW, most likely you don't like both. I've had stripped-down Harley drag bikes and big road bikes, now a Harley powered sport bike that weighs 400 pounds and has over 100HP. There is something magical about V-twins pounding between your legs.
Just ask a Ducati owner
Just ask a Ducati owner
a_retent
In memory of Trixie woo-woo
My father waited 20 years to get an H/D when mama said "go get yer bike". He walked into Belmont H/D dealer and eyed a black electra-glide with white bags, white seat, full clear windshield and grey accent graphics on the tank. It was a nice looker.
He owned that until '81 when you could no longer find ethyl gas and it had a little short of 23k miles and was told it was time for a top end rebuild....time to trade. He really loved that bike and was sooo proud of it.
I drove it a couple times and it was okay but not my cup-o-tea, but for an AMF bike it was a nice bike.
He traded it for a candy red/white '81 AMF electra-glide and it spent more time in the shop than on the road. I drove it a few times, didn't like how it rode or handled and generally thought it to be a POS...an expensive POS. I actually liked his '76 better. He stopped riding somewhere around '84 after being diagnosed with cancer, they asked if I was interested in another bike besides my Goldwing. I politely declined and they finally sold the bike a couple months before he passed. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I disliked that bike and I've never owned a Harley since that experience and probably never will at their prices now. Besides, with the amount of distracted drivers on the road today I'm not sure how much more riding I'll be doing, riding bike ain't as enjoyable as it used to be.
I don't care what you ride...just get your knees in the breeze.
He owned that until '81 when you could no longer find ethyl gas and it had a little short of 23k miles and was told it was time for a top end rebuild....time to trade. He really loved that bike and was sooo proud of it.
I drove it a couple times and it was okay but not my cup-o-tea, but for an AMF bike it was a nice bike.
He traded it for a candy red/white '81 AMF electra-glide and it spent more time in the shop than on the road. I drove it a few times, didn't like how it rode or handled and generally thought it to be a POS...an expensive POS. I actually liked his '76 better. He stopped riding somewhere around '84 after being diagnosed with cancer, they asked if I was interested in another bike besides my Goldwing. I politely declined and they finally sold the bike a couple months before he passed. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I disliked that bike and I've never owned a Harley since that experience and probably never will at their prices now. Besides, with the amount of distracted drivers on the road today I'm not sure how much more riding I'll be doing, riding bike ain't as enjoyable as it used to be.
I don't care what you ride...just get your knees in the breeze.
I wasn't certain if I'd have another bike as my last, or what that might be, it turns out it's an Indian Scout. Good fit, good everything, I'm very pleased. I don't know that Harley offers anything like it but the revived Indian seems to have no trouble selling them.
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a_retent
In memory of Trixie woo-woo
A Polaris product, they did a stellar job resurrecting and modernizing the Indian brand, so good in fact Polaris announced it would be discontinuing the Victory line of bikes. I got the chance to take an Indian Chief Vintage for a spin, what a nice bike. I kinda like the looks of the Chief Dark Horse. My neighbor traded his Yamaha sport bike for a Scout and he really likes it.
PanheadXR290
Well-Known Member
HDs not attracting millennial buyers has absolutely nothing to do with HD not rolling with the punches ,the same millennials who won't buy Harley also don't buy American made HiFi ,you've gotta remember the mind wipe of having everything American made right down to American culture that's been driven into millennials heads by our school systems ,our media and social media ,millennials have a hatred for everything American ,even the middle class way of life ,me personally ,I don't think much of a generation who 60% of 30 year old males still live at home with Mommy ,HDs Twin Cam is every bit as advanced as anything in it's class and superior to many ,keep in mind i also own a Kawasaki KZ-750 stroker so my ideas aren't about Harley being king ,it's about the 40 & under generation not being willing to support American industry , a McIntosh amp costs what it does because McIntosh created Middle class jobs for Americans ,HD is in the same boat ,no other motorcycle manufacturer has the highly paid multi generational work force as HD does , the people who aren't buying HD also make up the lions share of adult babbies who have the lowest home ownership with highest amount of debt ,the under 40 crowd dosent understand that buying everything from Amazon absolutely killed off America's middle class ,while HD is reviled by American basement dwellers it's highly sought out by Asians ,HD will just move to Japan & Americans will be paying import duties ,Harley's aren't no .ore expensive than their peers either ,anyone priced a new Honda Goldwing ? It's my dream bike but I can't afford one ,a Honda Goldwing costs more than any Harley I own .
a_retent
In memory of Trixie woo-woo
That is the first scout I've seen with leather bags and a windshield, nice bike. May you get many safe years of enjoyment outta her.
I may not be a Harley fan but I respect and admire anyone who keeps the old machines going, very nice work.
Mama has a nice bike too.
Both my millennial boys outgrew that shit. My oldest has all my old Pioneer gear I got in the Navy and then some. He also bought and rebuilt an '85 Goldwing 1200. After he repainted and buffed he brought the skins over to me to pinstripe. My youngest started out doing the whole "tuner" thing with import cars, finally he sez to me one day he was tired of wrenchin' on soup cans and wanted something different. He decided to build a 650HP LS powered GMC Denali running E85 pump gas....what an animal!
Here's my current 1800cc Goldwing. It's a 2002 with less than 60k, traxion dynamics rear shock, Progessive Suspension front struts, F4 tinted and vented shield, EBC square drive front rotors, Vance & Hines monster slip on muffs and a bunch of other little things not worth mentioning.
I also lowered and leveled the whole bike. For a bike that weighs in @ around 1000lbs and my fat ass on it the flat 6 cyl. has surprised many a sport bike outta the hole.
This will more than likely be my last one.
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