How good are Class D amplifiers now?

Mister Pig said:
I bought this Class D amp in the summer off the used market, as I wanted to give one a shot. Its an interesting design based on B&O Ice modules, however the switching power sections of the boards are bypassed and its given a stout analog power supply. Its an interesting amp that outputs 250 WPC, can pass 40A of current, and capable of driving 1 ohms loads like Apogee Scintillia. It is also big and heavy, somewhere shy of 70 pounds, and terribly balanced due to the dual stacked toroidal transformers.
amp_2up_open.jpg


As far as sound goes its an excellent amp, it sounds like a tube amp in the mids and treble but has bass response like a top flight SS amp. It has more shading and subtlety than other inexpensive Class D amps I have heard. The only down side is that its 8K input impedance makes it tough to match a pre amp up with it. It isn't enamored with a Plinius Tautoro I have, which is a TOTL pre that sold for $11K. I have to decide between this amp and the pre, and one of them is going to have to go. Its a tough choice I don't want to make, so I have been putting it off.

Cheers
Mister Pig
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Why is the input impedance so low?
 
djnagle said:
For my taste a straight up class D amp is too sterile sounding. No distortion and flat across the spectrum. But... when I started putting a tube preamp in front of the amp, they sounded really good. All the good traits of a class D and the warmth of the tube.
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While I've never found my Class D amps to sound sterile, I have found that if I feed them through Telefunken 12au/x/t's [admittedly not to every one's taste], I get a very nice, open, airy soundstage.
To my ears, makes even low-grade Mp3's listenable.
Still working on the project......
 
E-Stat said:
I find that the best switchers are still challenged at the top in terms of natural sounding "air" as compared with top end class A or AB amps.
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I have an inexpensive HK AV unit that uses a switcher for the power supply and uses analog class AB for the output. The power supply makes the whole thing ridiculously light, but also makes the intermodulation distortion (IM) unmeasurable.
 
infullview said:
I have an inexpensive HK AV unit that uses a switcher for the power supply and uses analog class AB for the output. The power supply makes the whole thing ridiculously light, but also makes the intermodulation distortion (IM) unmeasurable.
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I don't think modern switchers are the demons people make them out to be. It's all about implementation.
 
I’ve run a bunch of class d over the years: Tripath, TI TPA, Icepower (Teac), Hypex (NAD), Nuforce, and IRS. I found the Tripaths strident but the rest were pretty good. The Hypex powered NAD was laidback while the TPA’s were quite detailed. The Nuforce, which was really a power dac, was clean but weak in the low end.

My favorites have been the Icepowered Teac (an integrated amp) and the Class D Audio SDS 470c power amp which uses IRS2092 chips coupled with a linear psu. Both have phenomenal bass response. The Teac is a bit underpowered at around 35wpc but was great for a small room. The SDS amp is a monster at 300wpc. I use it today fronted by a B&K preamp to drive a pair of Kef LS50s in my media room. I got the amp for some Maggies year ago and recommend it if you are willing to go big on class d.
 
prighello said:
I’ve run a bunch of class d over the years: Tripath, TI TPA, Icepower (Teac), Hypex (NAD), Nuforce, and IRS. I found the Tripaths strident but the rest were pretty good. The Hypex powered NAD was laidback while the TPA’s were quite detailed. The Nuforce, which was really a power dac, was clean but weak in the low end.

My favorites have been the Icepowered Teac (an integrated amp) and the Class D Audio SDS 470c power amp which uses IRS2092 chips coupled with a linear psu. Both have phenomenal bass response. The Teac is a bit underpowered at around 35wpc but was great for a small room. The SDS amp is a monster at 300wpc. I use it today fronted by a B&K preamp to drive a pair of Kef LS50s in my media room. I got the amp for some Maggies year ago and recommend it if you are willing to go big on class d.
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Which Teac, I have been halfass looking at Teac’s and NADs.

:beerchug:
 
GChief said:
Which Teac, I have been halfass looking at Teac’s and NADs.

:beerchug:
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The Teac was an AH01 which has since been replaced by the AI301da. They have the same power section, Icepower 50asx2, but different dacs and the AI301da has some other additional features; Bluetooth etc.

If you are interested in a little Icepowered integrated it might be worth checking out the PS Audio Sprout 100 which has a more powerful module; not sure which one. I’d also take a gander at the Yamaha WXA-50 which uses the Icepower 125asx2; a step up from the 50asx2. Indeed the Yammie looks pretty compelling with an ESS dac, music cast software, and ice amp. Not sure why we don’t hear more about it. Maybe it sounds bad?

The NAD I had was a D3020. It was a pretty good unit but nothing outstanding about it just competent. Ran pretty hot for a class d amp and the display sucked. The v2 does not impress…they pulled the usb and the remote is cheap compared to the sleek and simple one from the original. Plus they failed to improve the display. I would pass but YMMV.
 
prighello said:
The Teac was an AH01 which has since been replaced by the AI301da. They have the same power section, Icepower 50asx2, but different dacs and the AI301da has some other additional features; Bluetooth etc.

If you are interested in a little Icepowered integrated it might be worth checking out the PS Audio Sprout 100 which has a more powerful module; not sure which one. I’d also take a gander at the Yamaha WXA-50 which uses the Icepower 125asx2; a step up from the 50asx2. Indeed the Yammie looks pretty compelling with an ESS dac, music cast software, and ice amp. Not sure why we don’t hear more about it. Maybe it sounds bad?

The NAD I had was a D3020. It was a pretty good unit but nothing outstanding about it just competent. Ran pretty hot for a class d amp and the display sucked. The v2 does not impress…they pulled the usb and the remote is cheap compared to the sleek and simple one from the original. Plus they failed to improve the display. I would pass but YMMV.
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Whatever I get will probably be running one of the Klispch RP series in a Tiny House so it won’t need a lot of power.

Thanks for the info.
And sorry for the highjack.
 
E-Stat said:
No, but their RFI footprint is significant. You need both physical and electrical isolation for optimum results,
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Yes, and some are quieter than others, can be incompatible with FM indoor antenna reception, like most CD players.
 
Useing NOS Mullard 12au7 tubes in pre of Sphinx hybrid class D amp. Works for me. Drive 4 ohm loads.
 
Like everything else, the technology improves over time. I have a B&W MM-1 desktop system that is essentially a pair of computer speakers but optimized for true high fidelity reproduction. Each speaker has a 3.5 inch "woofer" and 1 inch tweeter with each driver having its own 18 watt class D amplifier. This is an excellent sounding system and imaging is better than anything short of headphones. Bass response is limited below about 150 Hz but I solved that by building a low pass filter for the Harman Kardon power amp and using a pair of AR-3A speakers for subwoofers. Much of my listening is from the desk so the disclaimer is that this will NOT be the best solution to fill a larger room at higher volumes.
 
I have listened to a few, but all of them listed for over $1500. They sounded very good to me. Very clear, open, powerful presentation. Stereophile has a number of them on their Class A Recommended Component list.
 
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