How to get the best sound possible out of these vintage Circle of Sound babies

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by DangerBoy, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. mars_volta

    mars_volta Super Member

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    2,181
    I agree some decent 2 way car speakers would work great. Don't modify the cabinets except dampening.

    I would spend time on these before many other crap speakers I've seen posted on here. ;)
     
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  2. rvatfhunter

    rvatfhunter Active Member

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    but that response ...
     
  3. borus

    borus Luthier tube guy Subscriber

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    • :lurk: I love the concept never be discourage by those that think their ideas are best. Some of the most fun in this pursuit is getting the most out of the least. Don't let the 6.5in full-range control your sizing sometimes a smaller speaker can put out better sound when space is at a premium. I just put a KLH mid in a RS solo4 with great results. 4in replacing a 3x7in
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
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  4. jazzmans

    jazzmans Super Member

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    I think they did a very good job with that enclosure, and wonder what a better driver (at or very near the same efficiency) would do in it.

    Go for it dude, but I'd keep everything stock except the baffle or ring you make to mount it to the enclosure.
     
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  5. DangerBoy

    DangerBoy Active Member

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    118
    Here are pics of the stock drivers in those speakers. They don't actually look to be too bad quality -wise.

    I found some used JL C2-650X Coaxial drivers for a very good price locally. They seem to be well reviewed so I'm thinking of picking those up to try.

    Other speakers I was considering were JBL GTO 638, Polk Audio MM652 and Pioneer TS-D1602R. All of them seemed to be good candidates. I thought I'd go with the JLs because they're around the same quality as the others and cheaper because they're used. They also have a pretty high sensitivity rating (91 dB (1W@1M) so hopefully they'll produce some decent sound at low power.

     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
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  6. tubed

    tubed Lunatic Member

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    If they fit, perhaps some Minimus 7or 77's firing face up under the grill cloth.
     

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  7. Oblivion321

    Oblivion321 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    This is my kind of project. I like the oddball, " Let's see what happens" kind of experiments. I'm gonna agree with the idea of using a coaxial car speaker with a center firing tweeter. I would gut them out and coat the inside of the cylinders with flex seal and stuff them full of polyfill. :thumbsup: I wish I had a pair of these to play with.
     
  8. mars_volta

    mars_volta Super Member

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    Those drivers dont look that bad. I've seen worse.
     
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  9. Doug G.

    Doug G. Addicted Member

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    I'd still like to know why there is such negativity in threads like this. Some people like to restore things, even if the object isn't necessarily the creme-dela-creme. I'm sure the OP realized he wasn't going to get the sound of a $500,000 system from these.

    BTW, I got a little Coronado "consolette" for Confirmation in 1968 built with the same idea in mind. It was all in a single cabinet, however, with a swing down VM changer in the middle and the speakers at the ends.

    Doug
     
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  10. DangerBoy

    DangerBoy Active Member

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    I'm thinking of lining the inside with KnuKonceptz Kno Knoise Kolossus Sound Deadener which, according to some fairly rigorous testing I've read up on, is the most effective sound deadening stuff available. I've got a pair of JL C2-650X 6.5" Coaxial drivers lined up to try out in these enclosures. Then, I'll have to decide which way I'm going to go with the record player/amplifier/streamer system and get started on that part of the project. That'll be discussed in this post in the DIY Forum:

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....em-to-a-whole-new-level.792960/#post-10959177
     
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  11. phil-g

    phil-g Active Member

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    do you have a patio? They would be great out there as originally made.
    when I read where someone wants to take something with an inherent value and coolness factor as it is and turn it into something it is not,,, I cringe. there's a lot to be said for if it ain't broke don't fix it.
     

     

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  12. DangerBoy

    DangerBoy Active Member

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    I don't think preserving it "as is" is an option for me. One reason for this is that other than its undeniable retro coolness factor, this system doesn't have much else going for it and therefore whomever I sell it to is not likely to use it for much other than decoration. As such, the market for it will be quite limited and I'm not likely to get a whole lot more than I paid for the system to begin with.

    The main reason though is that there's just no fun in that and for that reason, not trying to "make it more than it is" is just not interesting to me. I don't know why, but it seems that so many people just aren't getting the fact that this project isn't about taking something that is not and cannot be made into something that's audiophile quality and trying to make it into something that is. It's about finding ways to taking a cool piece of history that has minimal usefulness other than just being a hipster's display piece and re-imagining what it can be and making it into something that not only still looks cool but is also useful/functional and does things that no one else ever thought of making it do before. As such, it's just as much about the thrill and the adventure of thinking outside the box and using your skills, knowledge and creativity to make something into way more than people ever imagined it could be than it is about anything else. If I can, on a small budget, take this cool retro but not particularly good performing record player and speaker system and make it into something that not only sounds half decent but also has media streaming capabilities and in doing so make it into something that someone will relish having and using, I think I'll have accomplished something I can really be proud of. Not only would I have shown people a whole new way to look at and use these cool old systems, I will have had a lot of fun and adventure along the way. For me, that's what makes life interesting and fulfilling.

    In the end, I don't really care that this system is not of outstanding Hi-Fi quality and can't be made into something that is. All I care about is that it is and will always remain undeniably retro-cool and that I CAN make it into something that's far better than it was and can do so much more than it could if I have the courage and the energy to try and can have fun and learn some new things doing it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  13. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    The jl speakers you referenced need power. Look for a higher 1w/1m spec speaker. The jl specs at 91 db. The one I linked to has 99 db.
     
  14. tarior

    tarior Dirty pool, old man? Subscriber

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    If he uses a powered sub with a built in high pass filter, it will work just fine.
     
  15. borus

    borus Luthier tube guy Subscriber

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    Doug I agree I have received some of this negativity as well. You. I and DangerBoy just have to remember that some of the members here are not DIY'ers. They cannot see what is not there yet. If it does not have the brand name they think is good then they cannot imagine it can be fixed. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear but with energy and enthusiasm you can make a nice pigskin clutch.
     
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  16. DangerBoy

    DangerBoy Active Member

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    118
    I looked at those and thought they would be lovely for this application but they're a lot more money than I wanted to spend. They cost $160 USD/pair which is about $200 CAD plus shipping from the US to Canada. I'm getting those JLs for $50 CAD or $40 USD all in for a used pair in good condition. If they don't work there's a chance I can use them somewhere in my car or I can likely sell them for what I paid for them so they're worth giving a try.

    Also, the Dayton's sensitivity rating is 99 dB @ 2.83V/1m. The JL's is 94 dB @2.83V/1m not 91. I know I'll be light on power if I just recap the existing amp in the record player but I wasn't able to find many 6.5" coaxials that were more efficient than the JLs.

    I know that if I just recap and use the existing amplifier in the record player I'll be light on power and may not be able to drive those speakers. If that's the case, I'll either have to choose between getting those Dayton Full ranges or using an inexpensive solid state amp and bypassing or ripping out the existing record player amp. I'd prefer not to do that if possible as I'd like to keep it all analog and retain the function of the various cool looking control knobs on the record player. I suspect plans will change and various compromises will have to be made along the way to completing this project. We'll see what happens as I try certain things out and listen to what it sounds like.
     
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  17. DangerBoy

    DangerBoy Active Member

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    According to Zenith's advertisements for the product, the amp has 80 Watts peak power. I haven't fount a continuous or RMS rating for it yet. The original drivers appear to be 6 ohm. The ones I'm substituting are 4 ohm. Sensitivity is rated at 94 dB @2.83V/1m or 91 1W @ 1m.

    At any rate, I've got the new drivers now so I should be able to test pretty soon to see how much sound I can get out of them.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. tarior

    tarior Dirty pool, old man? Subscriber

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    80 watts is highly optimistic at best. I would be astonished if it could do 20 watts per channel @ 1Khz.
     
  19. DangerBoy

    DangerBoy Active Member

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    Egads! You're not insinuating that some advertising may not be completely honest and genuine are you? :eek: I'm shocked! ;)
     
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  20. valvenator

    valvenator curious bystander, serious procrastinator Subscriber

    It does state 80 watts peak so at least it's a somewhat honest description in that respect.
    20 watts actually isn't bad for general listening especially if coupled with a sub woofer to take the load off the low end.
    By 80 watts they probably mean combined so it's probably closer to 10 watts per channel, still OK for some background music.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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