How to reduce turntable noise?

Discussion in 'Fisher' started by thornev, Aug 25, 2018.

  1. thornev

    thornev Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    I've got my Allegro working nicely. I'm surprised by how good the phono sounds through headphones. Just amazing full-spectrum audio (with the MM cart + preamp I have hooked up). But...

    The turntable noise is quite loud. I'm talking about when the tone arm first sits on the outer wax before playing the 1st song. It's as if I'm hearing the stylus scratching against the vinyl. I know how to reduce that sound for monophonic records, but stereo, I don't know. Is there some resistor I can add, or something I can remove?

    Thanks, Thorne
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. 432HzBob

    432HzBob Super Member

    Messages:
    4,185
    Location:
    West Coast
    Not that i know of.
    Clean them in a record cleaner like Spin-Clean, make sure your cartridge is aligned properly and just deal with a little surface noise until the music drowns it out is what I figure.
     
  3. ConradH

    ConradH Addicted Member

    Messages:
    7,836
    Location:
    Canandaigua, NY
    When I fix up my LP rips, I only use headphones. It's because you can hear every defect. The lead-in is much less obtrusive with speakers in a room, than 'phones. Also, be careful you aren't listening too loud. It's easy to listen at dangerous levels with 'phones. Too easy, as I like some things loud.
     
  4. thornev

    thornev Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    432 hit it on the head. It's "surface noise." I have a turntable that has no built-in preamp and the motor is as far as possible from the cartridge. No noise. But this Gerrard Autoslim P is a noisy motherf**ker when a moving magnet cart is installed. LOL
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  5. Catmanboo

    Catmanboo AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    475
    Location:
    Atwater, ohio
    It likely ain't your set-up, but the media itself. Some lp's are just noisier (&/or dirtier ) than others. My 1968 tetragrammatron pressings of deep purple's Shades Of Deep Purple are undoubtedly the noisiest, shittiest-sounding lp's I've ever heard. I think they have embedded floor sweepings in the vinyl. And yes, they & all my vinyl gets the discwasher prior to play. But that's just me...:)
     
  6. gadget73

    gadget73 junk junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
    36,441
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Get a CD player

    *runs away*

    If its an idler drive, old hard idlers make things noisier. So does dirt or lack of lube on the platter bearing. I believe the Allegro runs some variant of the Garrard Autoslim, and those are not all created equal. The lesser models have a 2 pole motor that has a lot of vibration so you'll get that noise in addition to the usual mechanical noises that they make. Best advice I can offer if this is the crappy motor, find a better model to either swap or use as a motor donor and get the idler rebuilt if it hasn't been.
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  7. thornev

    thornev Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    Oh gadget, say it isn't so ! "CD player"???!

    It is an Autoslim P, but I haven't removed the platter or turntable to see which version it is. But I'm convinced it's not the the turntable. It's vinyl surface noise that a Stanton 500 cart seems to like to amplify. The stock cart came with a ceramic stylus. I believe the sound is so much better with the moving mag cart.

    One thing weird about this turntable is that it shakes a lot. When I put it on automatic, after the record drops, the turntable shakes and shakes. There are 2 screws that I thought are to tighten it down for safe transport, but maybe I can use them to tighten just a little to reduce shake without harming the table?

    Thorne
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  8. gadget73

    gadget73 junk junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
    36,441
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Is there still foam in the middle of the springs? If not, find some nice soft foam and cut a block to stuff in there. They need something to dampen the springs otherwise it just bounces for a really long time. Basically its a car with dead shocks once the foam turns to dust.
     
    thornev likes this.
  9. thornev

    thornev Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    Foam is all gone assuming you mean the 4 (?) 1/2"-high springs on which the turntable sits. I can only get to one of the springs without taking the turntable apart. Looks like I have some diagnostics to do on the turntable part of the Allegro now. Cool !
     
  10. Catmanboo

    Catmanboo AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    475
    Location:
    Atwater, ohio
    Thorne- no such thing as ceramic stylus. Ceramic cartridge , yes. High-level output compared to magnetic, whether moving magnet or moving coil. Pull whole thing off the base (plinth, for nerds), & pack a bit of foam rubber in the springs. All of it crumbles aftet a few decades, then the bouncies set in. This will have the same effect as new shocks on an old junker car. Pm me if you wish. Just picked up a trunk-full of dual tt's & an elac 10h from uncle's estate, all foam damping is gone! . I'll talk you thru whatever ails that thing you have. De catman
     
    thornev likes this.
  11. Catmanboo

    Catmanboo AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    475
    Location:
    Atwater, ohio
    Yep, put some damping material in those springs. Also, & this takes a keen eyeball, make sure that tonearm is adjusted to drop stylus in the middle of the lead-in groove. Too far out, & you have problems! Most older changers had an adjustment for this. Yours may, or may not, not familiar with your rig.
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  12. thornev

    thornev Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    I have adjusted the drop-down spot. On the Autoslim P it's a small wheel in the middle of the underside of the tonearm. I've also adjusted the stylus pressure. Having trouble doing the vertical and horizontal cart settings though. That stupid mirror scale never works correctly.

    Thanks, Cat. This is easy compared to electronic circuits !
     
  13. gadget73

    gadget73 junk junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
    36,441
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Flip the two tabs on the bottom of the lockdown screws and the changer will lift up out of the base. Once thats up you can access the springs for stuffing.

    Can't really align these, basically you bolt up the cart and let it roll. Also part of why conicals are better for changers, they aren't as sensitive to alignment issues.
     
    thornev likes this.
  14. audmod01

    audmod01 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,206
    Location:
    Tioga, TX
    Remember that rubber parts age and become hard. Replacement/rebuild of idler wheels is a good first step as it helps avoid transferring motor noise to the turntable as it rotates . Also the motor suspension rubber grommets should be replaced. When the rubber grommets harden it transfers more motor noise directly to the metal frame stamping of the changer. Gary Stork of thevoiceofmusic.com is a good source for idler wheels and grommets plus some cartridges and needles for most any record changer/turntable. He usually requires that you send him your existing idler wheel for rebuilding, although on some units he has a considerable stock on hand. I had a Benjamin Miracord 40A that needed a new idler wheel and removal and sending it in is the only way to get a rebuilt one.

    Joe
     
  15. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

    Messages:
    21,765
    Location:
    Glen Burnie Md.
    The AutoSlim isn't a bad TT. It's not one of Garrards best, but rehabbed does a credible job for where it's fitted. The Stanton 500 isn't the best choice for this TT/Amp either. It picks up noise on all Turntables if it's not a Belt or Direct drive and even on a lot of those too. It's more of a DJ cart. Go back with a Good Astatic or comparable new ceramic cart. Plus 55+ y.o. motor grommets and idlerwheels make for noisy rim drive TT's. And get some medium compliance foam and fill the suspension springs (think shocks on a car). Replace or repair the above and it will be a good dependable quiet unit for years. (See Joe's post above mine for vendor info). turntableneedles.com has a shitload of really good E/V, Astatic and other Ceramic Carts that will fit the Autoslims headshell.


    Larry
     
    thornev likes this.
  16. thornev

    thornev Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    Larry - I've been listening to the TT for a while with the Stanton 500 + a new stylus (red rectangle stylus) and to me it's a wining combo. The deep bass and overall detail is surprising even when compared to listening via the 500-C phono "low" setting. In part the new (for me) Stellar Labs 35-5960 headphones are amazing considering they cost only $30. But like you, me and others have said, the TT noise on "dead wax" is pretty loud (but is significantly "disguised" when the audio kicks in). I believe some TT parts were "rehabbed" and probably some need more attention. I intend to investigate the suggestions you and others have made once I get the TT removed. I'm enjoying the auto features especially "return when done" so I don't have to be in the room when the record is over. I do need to address the fact that when cleaning the vinyl with a brush while the platter is turning and it slows down to a stop.

    Thorne
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  17. gadget73

    gadget73 junk junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
    36,441
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    sounds like a hard idler, but usually if the idler is slippery enough that a brush stops it, the changer cycle will stall too. Sometimes you can sand the outer edge to restore traction, but I've had the best results in terms of performance and noise level with rebuilt idler wheels. usually I sand them in an effort to get the thing running for testing and troubleshooting to see if its worth spending the $$ on a re-tread.
     
  18. thornev

    thornev Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    Yes, the changer cycle does slow down temporarily but always completes. I'll look into what rebuilding/sanding an idler wheel entails. Thanks, Guys.
     
  19. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

    Messages:
    21,765
    Location:
    Glen Burnie Md.
    Changing an Idler wheel is easier than changing a tire on a RENAULT Dauphine. And you don't need a jack.

    Find and Remove the Circlip at the Spindle on the platter.
    Lift up platter and set aside. Keep fingers off the inside rim area.
    There is a Tiny "C" clip on the IDLER SHAFT holding the wheel down. REMOVE
    Lift off the wheel.
    Get a 2" screw and nut that fits the ID of the idler center. Use this as a drill mount.
    Spin up the idler and adjust so it doesn't wobble. Once stable, spin up and hold a piece of crocus cloth or medium grit sandpaper LIGHTLY against the tire. LIGHT AND SHORT applications. Do this until the edge is DULL COLORED. If cracks appear in the tire at anytime up to this point REPLACE!

    Wash in HOT WATER and a couple drops of DAWN! Rinse Hot Water and air dry. DO NOT RUB! Handle with gloves at this point. NO BARE FINGERS! Body oils cause slippage of the tire and rims contact areas.

    Apply 1 or 2 drops of Turbine or other light Machine oil on the IDLER SHAFT.
    Lower Idler Wheel onto Shaft and install "C" Clip

    Wash inside perimeter of Platter with HOT WATER and DAWN. Hot Water Rinse and dry with paper towels. NO BARE HANDS! Wipe ENTIRE INTERIOR PERIMETER FACE with 91% or Anhydrous Alcohol. Let dry.

    While platter is drying, Remove Gear to the right of and and slightly to rear of Spindle (Remove "C:" clip and lift off. Clean all OLD GREASE from Underside. You'll see a pin sticking up with a roller on it. Use a DeGreaser/rustbuster (PB BLASTER or Liquid Wrench) to free up the roller. Canned air to blow out the roller and lube with 1-2 drops of light Machine Oil. The Underside of the gear has a "RACEWAY" for the roller. The old black grease MUST BE REMOVED. Replace with White Lithium Grease (not a lot....Think Brylcreem...a little dab'll do ya)

    Clean the Spindle bearing at the bottom of the spindle. Lithium grease and some light machine oil on the spindle shaft. Assembly is reverse of teardown.

    Here is a thread on a Magnavox 621 I did way back when. similar setup in a general way. It'll give you an idea of what's involved, however the Garrard has fewer parts.
    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/micromatic-teardown-rebuild.213911/
     
    thornev likes this.
  20. thornev

    thornev Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    Larry - You do make your post sound like replacing engine parts on a Renault. The idler wheel sounds like a tire. I guess the point is to make the idler wheel's edge rough enough that it makes solid contact with the inside of the platter.

    Can the "light machine oil" be 3-in-one? I have that on my shop table.

    Can the "Anhydrous Alcohol" be Isopropyl Alcohol?

    Since I enjoy so much listening to records on the Allegro, I'm definitely going to give this a try. Thanks for posting. Thorne
     

Share This Page